Ha! My son's coach should be banned from the gym.

[RedMaster]

My son has been training for a little over 2 months now, he is 13, and his lifts have gone up dramatically. He is running SS and I am training him at home. I have spent a great deal of time stressing form and proper technique and I even remind him before each set. He is doing a great job with everything.

My son wrestles and his coach made him lift yesterday even though he is already on a program. My boy told his coach this but he made him lift anyway. In an effort not to mess up his SS routine he decided to lift super light as he had to run SS when he got home. The coach made him do some squats and when my son did them the coach told him his form is awful because "he is going too deep". How is this guy even allowed in the weightroom?

I looked at the program the coach has the boys running and there is a lot of pyramid stuff and the lifts change everyday. there are some good things like squats, power cleans, and BP but there are also things I don't believe new lifters need to do like overhead squats and GHRs. I also don't believe the workouts need to be changed each day for the benefit of muscle confusion as these kids are just starting out and need to master the basic movements. I realize this is for wrestling and he probably wants to incorporate some cardio into the lifts with short rests in between but the volume is far too much and the workout just plain sucks in my opinion.

I told my boy not to participate in the weightlifting portion of practice and to tell his coach to talk to me if he has an issue with that. I told him to do the cardio when they run and wrestle but when they lift tell them he is training at home.

Am I a giant moron because i am missing something? Do you see any reason for 13-17yr old boys to be training the way I mentioned above?

[Big Sexy J]

[bmontgomery87]

Go speak with the coach about it. Seems like the best solution.
I'd explain that while you realize it is important for your son to take place in team training, you aren't willing to risk him being injured due to poor programming and a lack of coaching.

[JacobRothenberg]

[Iceman1800]

Let him do his job. You may have preferences of how you want him to get stronger. The coach is having him do things to be a better wrestler. Ghr's and overhead squats are great movements. IMHO, butt out

[Nikonguy]

Unless the coach is a tool and his weight program is dangerous let your son be part of the team. Can you program 2 days of SS around the team's lifting day?


....and what Iceman said

[RedMaster]

Unless the coach is a tool and his weight program is dangerous let your son be part of the team. Can you program 2 days of SS around the team's lifting day?


....and what Iceman said

The coach was a NCAA division 1AA national champion so there is no doubt he knows a great deal more about wrestling than I do. I just don't know how much he knows about a weight training program and I hate to see my son waste his newb gains running a strange program like this. I understand that fighting sports incorporate a diferent type of weight training that I know nothing about but I can't wrap my head around why you would have new lifters doing what I call exotic lifts when it seems to me they should just concentrate on the basics.

[SPFjudge]

Coaches want the kids to train together for team bonding and stuff.

[HamburgerTrain]

The coach was a NCAA division 1AA national champion so there is no doubt he knows a great deal more about wrestling than I do. I just don't know how much he knows about a weight training program and I hate to see my son waste his newb gains running a strange program like this. I understand that fighting sports incorporate a diferent type of weight training that I know nothing about but I can't wrap my head around why you would have new lifters doing what I call exotic lifts when it seems to me they should just concentrate on the basics.

This is a major problem with team sports... having to be part of the team. Your son will not be able to get by doing his own 'thing' when a team is doing a different 'thing.' This gets worse in college sports.

Either talk to the coach to find a middle ground (because just him getting his way will piss you and your son off and you just getting your way will piss the coach and the team off) or transfer your son to a school that doesn't have any structured lifting program and then you and he can do whatever the hell you want.

There is no easy solution. The coach knows more about wrestling than you. You may know more about training than him but in the eyes of a coach who is trying to establish a dominant leading role over a team, your knowledge on anything is going to worth d*ck to him if it contradicts ANYTHING he want to do with the team.

[Retardo-pex]

My son has been training for a little over 2 months now, he is 13, and his lifts have gone up dramatically. He is running SS and I am training him at home. I have spent a great deal of time stressing form and proper technique and I even remind him before each set. He is doing a great job with everything.

My son wrestles and his coach made him lift yesterday even though he is already on a program. My boy told his coach this but he made him lift anyway. In an effort not to mess up his SS routine he decided to lift super light as he had to run SS when he got home. The coach made him do some squats and when my son did them the coach told him his form is awful because "he is going too deep". How is this guy even allowed in the weightroom?

I looked at the program the coach has the boys running and there is a lot of pyramid stuff and the lifts change everyday. there are some good things like squats, power cleans, and BP but there are also things I don't believe new lifters need to do like overhead squats and GHRs. I also don't believe the workouts need to be changed each day for the benefit of muscle confusion as these kids are just starting out and need to master the basic movements. I realize this is for wrestling and he probably wants to incorporate some cardio into the lifts with short rests in between but the volume is far too much and the workout just plain sucks in my opinion.

I told my boy not to participate in the weightlifting portion of practice and to tell his coach to talk to me if he has an issue with that. I told him to do the cardio when they run and wrestle but when they lift tell them he is training at home.

Am I a giant moron because i am missing something? Do you see any reason for 13-17yr old boys to be training the way I mentioned above?

You aren't a moron. When you think about it, most high school coaches are simply teachers who either have experience with a sport or were willing to learn as much about that particular sport and how to coahc it as they could. I can not name a single coach i ever had who knew more about strength training for sports then i did when i was about 16 years old. I always doubted myself because what the hell did I know I was new to lifting and these guys were COACHES!!!! I often got into the issue of "the team workout" Pretty much once I showed what I knew, lifted in front of a coach or simply made a compromise to do my own workout during team weight room hours I was left alone to progress.

They almost will never agree on form, especially if you lift like a powerlifter, but I blatantly told several coaches that they were my "insert sport of choice here" coach and not a strength and conditioning coach.

If he continues to be stubborn about it ( which he will, and it could affect his position/favoritism later on which sucks) you should make it a point to meet up with him and talk about it without raging. You are a big guy, explain that you have been taking care of the strength department for your son, because at 13, he probabaly hasn't decided to dedicate 100% of his time to a single sport.

If you have to, explain why your current methods are superior to the program he has them running (without really saying yours is superior) or find a successful wrestlers strength program to use as a basis. Many will be reasonable as long as you are, some will never budge on the issue though.

[Strawlion]

If he thinks your son is squatting too deep, he probably doesn't know how to teach proper form on any of the lifts. I would just tell your son to follow the form that you teach him, and just comply with what the coach says as long as it doesn't put him in danger. He could just use light weights with the team, do his quarter squats or whatever, and then do the real workout at home. It could be an active recovery day. I honestly don't think there are any specific lifts directly beneficial to wrestling (maybe neck exercises? more emphasis on pulling?)

Either way, following a proper training program from the young age of 13, will be more beneficial in the long run than doing whatever specific exercises he'll have your son doing.

If I were your son though, I'd probably argue my case with the coach (showing him vids of competition squat lifts, showing the study proving that heavy squatters have better knees etc) before blindly complying.

[BrotherWolf]

Let him do his job. You may have preferences of how you want him to get stronger. The coach is having him do things to be a better wrestler. Ghr's and overhead squats are great movements. IMHO, butt out

I agree... GHR are great and so are OH squats assuming the coach is qualified to teach them correctly that is .. as far as SS goes save it for the off season , one way or another eventually is going to interfere with wrestling

[ChrisJones999]

Talk to the coach and maybe you can sit down and work a program out between the 2 of you. Maybe the coach can have him go light on the weights.

Keep in mind he has team mates and you don't want your son to be the black sheep of the team..... or think he is special!!!

[jersey89]

Talk to the coach and maybe you can sit down and work a program out between the 2 of you. Maybe the coach can have him go light on the weights.

Keep in mind he has team mates and you don't want your son to be the black sheep of the team..... or think he is special!!!

I agree, I'd talk to the coach but ultimately let him partake in whatever practice/lifting the coach has planned. Especially at that age the last thing you want is for your son to feel alienated or awkward at practice which could eventually ruin the sport for him. Have him train your way in the off season.

[aminus]

I'm surprised no one has said this yet. How can you judge him when you haven't even sat in on a session to see what he makes your son do? I understand, you know what lifts he's doing but you have no idea how this man suggests form. Likely it won't be great as he's a sports coach and not a weight lifting coach, but it very well could be quite acceptable. Imagine making a big deal about it to find out months later when you came in to watch what they were doing and most of them had decent form? That would suck and your son very well could have missed out on some great training and chances at more team comradery.

He is your son though. Do what you feel is right.

[Liftamulti]

[Norse1308]

As long as your son is lifting properly, he's going to get stronger regardless of whether you tell him to do 3x5 squats or the coach has him do overhead squats and ghr's. I'd understand if this was for powerlifting, but that "other stuff" might have more functional carryover to wrestling in some regard.

[ISuckAtBenching]

I had a lot of fun volunteering to be strength coach for the varsity FB team of my old school, but the head coach didn't like me because I knew more about training than him, I was at least 2x higher than him in each lift aside from bench, and I didn't let the kids quarter squat spine destroying weights day in and day out. God forbid they hit a reasonable number to depth, and be proud of themselves for doing so. No, 500, 600, 700. Those were the numbers he wanted to see, even if he only unracked it and then racked it. It was pathetic.


Point being, is see if you can get a spot in the weight room, at bare minimum. It's fun, but hopefully the coach is less of a tool than the one I had the pleasure of experiencing. Has-been f-cking dorks...

[untranslatedZA]

Let him do his job. You may have preferences of how you want him to get stronger. The coach is having him do things to be a better wrestler. Ghr's and overhead squats are great movements. IMHO, butt out

OH Squats are sick, still cant do more than 60lbs without falling over, I just use the bar and warm up with them before regular squats.

[CookAndrewB]

Let him do his job. You may have preferences of how you want him to get stronger. The coach is having him do things to be a better wrestler. Ghr's and overhead squats are great movements. IMHO, butt out

^^^
This.

I agree... GHR are great and so are OH squats assuming the coach is qualified to teach them correctly that is .. as far as SS goes save it for the off season , one way or another eventually is going to interfere with wrestling

B-dub brings up a good point. Strength training for athletes really shouldn't look like strength training for powerlifters. When an athlete is in-season, their lifting needs to change to accomodate for additional recovery burdens created by their sport, and at that point a coach should be looking to minimize injuries so athletes can play, vice being banged up from training. Remeber, competition is the real goal, not getting stronger. Save SS for the offseason.

On a personal, fatherly, note: Don't teach your kid to be the person that has to push back against every idea. Yes, we all want our kids to be free thinkers and avoid following morons off the cliff (so to speak), but having this "I know better" attitude isn't going to serve him well as a person. It's great that he knows you have his back and support him, but the coach is the coach... and you are just dad. Don't interfere with the process, and trust that there is a plan in effect even if you don't understand it.

[allergic2rice]

I get where you're coming from, but the best solution here would be to schedule a private talk with the coach.

And don't go in there with a "I know better than you" attitude.
you don't become a D1 championship coach without knowing a thing or two about the sport

[Charlie Brown]

To be honest

Hes 13 let him lift with the coach. Most importantly let him lift with his friends and with the team. The coaches programs might not make 100% sense to you but he should do that.

He shouldnt have to be hearing you contradict his coach, or have to tell tell the coach my dad says this and his coach disagrees its just setting him up bad.

You can start training him more in the off season and when hes older anyway when hes like 16-18 and the peak of his high school wrestling career. Hes young so it wont make a difference either way hell be working out and introducing his body to the movements. Id just watch his diet

Basically let the kid be wrestler, let him lift with the team, dont make him the outcast, dont make him have to contradict the coach or confuse him, and let the coach do his job

Just my opinion

[Heavy_Beats]

Your concerns about your son being forced to lift incorrectly and dangerously without your supervision is well founded.

If the wrestling coach is a know-nothing-know-it-all bro lifter you need to protect your son from this interference.

Discretely tell the wrestling coach that you want to train your son personally (make it about father son bonding rather than the coaches incompetence).

Tell your son to discretely avoid any team bro lifting as you don't want him getting injured.

If the coaches strength training program and technique is horrible then your son will soon be much stronger than the other boys when you use correct technique and proper programming in his training. The coach will be in for a surprise.

[RedMaster]

Many great points made here. Thank you very much. I should point out that the coach does not have the team doing strictly overhead square and ghrs he has them doing back squats one day and overhead squats another day. He does incorporate the basic lifts, bp-sq-dl, but he also has them doing other lifts like cleans, which I like, and ghrs and other things. I have seen a printout of the program and it is a great deal of volume 3 days per week. I have never participated in an endurance sport like wrestling and I know very little about sport speciific weight programs for it. It is simply alien to me. I believe kids will be better suited with a ss program in the beginning but I am also not a former all American wrestler. I will keep my mouth shut and see what happens. On another note this is an offseason program as the wrestling season has ended. I guess ss will wait until the season is over. Thanks for all of re input. Meager reps coming to those who gave advice as soon as I can give them.

[rancid_theclash]

I was on the wrestling team in highschool... It was tiring as SH*T.. Honestly Doing SS well training for wrestling might over train him... Maybe have your son speak to the coach and tell him Strength training is also a priority in his life.. see if he can do anything for him, he can probably (obviously) tailor the program a bit towards that lol

[BombDonald]

Man I remember some of the crap we did back in high school wrestling. It would make most people cringe, partial pull-ups, half squats with a guy on your back, timed neck bridge sets etc.

It isn't about learning how to lift properly, it's about getting really fukkin tough so you can wrestle harder. Most of the stuff we did was purely conditioning based and meant as a team building activity. If someone wasn't performing, we would all pay. It's all mental.

If the coach was a successful D2 wrestler, he probably has a pretty good handle on things. I'd trust him.

[MichaelCJ]

Eh. Look at WS4SB (just one of many), and you'll see some pretty "crazy" options there, I guess, too - less of the set-in-stone approach than many PL-style faves. And that's a program designed by strength training experts to work in with sports training, specifically. Even some oly (WL) training can seem a bit "all over the place", if you're not used to it.

On the other hand, I can sympathise on both deep squats and what might look like attempts at "muscle confusion" - they're things I feel fairly strong about too (I went back to oly squats a while ago, and love 'em). Mind you, parallel is good enough for most squatters, IMO.


tl;dr: What works for you mightn't work for him, and vice versa.

[runtocatch]

I've sorta been through this with my daughter this year when track season started. I had her training with me 3 days a week and she was getting very strong. We werent doing SS per say but something along them lines. I guess I just dont see the need in benching for a 12 year old girl that is an athlete but whatever. Anyhow, once track started we seriously had to taper off and actually we just eventually quit training cuz its just too damn much for them. It really bothered me at first but lookin back it really shouldnt have and it dont matter at all. Track is almost over and softball has already started. We will start training again and she will start to gain strength again. After all they are just kids.

[Kharvok]

If he is having them overhead squat it isnt likely any of them are doing it right. I dont know why you would overhead squat unless you snatch.

[Jasonk282]

Let him lift...the coach is a NCAA national champ...I'm quite sure he knows more about wrestling and strength/conditioning FOR wrestling than you might think.

Save SS for the off season.