General noob keto Qs

[Anon73o]

Here are some noobie Questions:

1) What is the optimal pre & post workout nutrition on a keto diet (Both for TKD & CKD)? On my current traditional BB style diet, I have a protein shake + oats + piece of fruit. I'm thinking that the oats will have to go, but are carbs entirely eliminated from the pre/post workout window? Are there one/two general meals that the majority of people on keto recommend?

2) How do you get enough fruit during the day and still remain in a state of ketosis?

3) TKD vs CKD question: In TKD, you do NOT carb-up on weekends, correct? Your carbs come before your workouts? In CKD, you just carb-up on Friday night --> Saturday night?

4) Has anyone here had success with a "Caveman diet"? Read about it here: http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html . It seems like it would be hard to "carb up" on the caveman diet (due to no wheat products, dairy etc read article). What do you think of the caveman diet in general?

[deadfingers]

I had the same first question a while back, they recommended oats. So oats are fine but only as preworkout, I myself take Dextrose so.

Ketosis works on the energy of Fat, not carbs, therefore no fruit.


TKD means you eat carbs only pre/post workout, no carb ups, although I'd recommend carbing up once a month (that's what I'm going to do).


Sorry I've never heard about the caveman diet.

[BeejGrpA]

Here are some noobie Questions:

1) What is the optimal pre & post workout nutrition on a keto diet (Both for TKD & CKD)? On my current traditional BB style diet, I have a protein shake + oats + piece of fruit. I'm thinking that the oats will have to go, but are carbs entirely eliminated from the pre/post workout window? Are there one/two general meals that the majority of people on keto recommend?

pre = complex carbs +protein 1 hour before. post = dextrose +protein immediately. fructose is something u want to steer clear of. keep the oats, lose the fruit

2) How do you get enough fruit during the day and still remain in a state of ketosis?

no fruit. it goes straight to ur liver. eat veggies and take a multi, its just like on any other diet, except without the fruit. maybe a few berries and cream everynow and again if ur craving them.

3) TKD vs CKD question: In TKD, you do NOT carb-up on weekends, correct?

correct

Your carbs come before your workouts?

correct. and after

In CKD, you just carb-up on Friday night --> Saturday night?

for between 24 and 48 hours. i think the generally prescribed is 36/48

4) Has anyone here had success with a "Caveman diet"? Read about it here: http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html . It seems like it would be hard to "carb up" on the caveman diet (due to no wheat products, dairy etc read article). What do you think of the caveman diet in general?

commonly reffered to as the paleothic diet (speeling), its a diet. i'm personally not a fan of the restrictions on things such as sauces dairy and so forth, seeing as everything has to be simple easy and gatherable etc. really tho its another form of keto. except with fruit.

[Anon73o]

Actually, fruit does not "go straight to the liver"; it's beneficial to have PWO in addition to complex carbs according to Alan Aragorn.

So, on a keto diet you can get fruit, but only in very small quantities? ex. a few berries at a time, maybe 1/4 of one of those mini-blueberry package things (?)

& a few more Qs:

1) What is the maximum amount of carbs you can take in per day and still remain in a state of ketosis? Is this amount a function of bodyweight or any other factors?

2) Has anyone here had success bulking on a keto diet?

3) How would you carb up on a caveman diet? Would you just eat a lot of fruit?

[BeejGrpA]

Actually, fruit does not "go straight to the liver"; it's beneficial to have PWO in addition to complex carbs according to Alan Aragorn.

according to one individual is not what i like to base my opinions on. basic known biochemical processes seem to be more reputable

So, on a keto diet you can get fruit, but only in very small quantities? ex. a few berries at a time, maybe 1/4 of one of those mini-blueberry package things (?)

yes

& a few more Qs:

1) What is the maximum amount of carbs you can take in per day and still remain in a state of ketosis? Is this amount a function of bodyweight or any other factors?

its a combination of when, how much, in what portions, exercise and so forth. if u really need some carbs, id suggest not going above 50. however u are going to be sacrificing fat loss.

2) Has anyone here had success bulking on a keto diet?

myself and Jaim. i had more success bulking on keto than on carbs, which is confusing as a hard gainer.

3) How would you carb up on a caveman diet? Would you just eat a lot of fruit?

[/quote] the caveman diet is 'designed' per say without a carb up.

[Anon73o]

Beej, I won't flame you because 1) you're from australia and 2) you're basically the only person responding to this thread ... lol. See this thread on fruit PWO + insight from Alan Aragorn:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...5007793&page=3

You are going to rethink

according to one individual is not what i like to base my opinions on.

I don't know about the whole keto thing anymore, the caveman diet + reasoning that good fats are probably more functional than clean carbs was what got me interested in keto. I haven't worked out the specifics yet, but i'm not sure if keto would fit my lifestyle. Keto would probably require a lot more cooking than a traditional diet, a lot more fridge space for the meat, and additionally I keep imagining a situation where some chick is like, "Eat this bread!!! Why can't you eat this bread?!?!?!?" I do think it would be cool to see how my body reacts to burning fat for fuel vs carbs ... is it like entering a new state of being? lol

[BeejGrpA]

not getting narky man but

1) ur missing a very important part of being in ketosis. u NEED liver glycogen to be depleted, otherwise ur body will use it for energy as opposed to fat. from what i could gather in that thread it was talking about WANTING to replenish liver glycogen by consuming fruit

2) what does being in Australia have to do with it? :P


PS my girlfriend doesnt worry about my eating habbits. "as long as u still eat steak its ok" was a comment she made early on, lol. would u stop taking protein shakes if ur mrs didnt like it? :P

[marty6001]

Fruit and keto don't mix very well in my opinion as well. While I can see a bit of berries now and again, if you cut your carbs in other areas, I would think it's sort of detremental to the whole premise. I agree with the Aussie, keep the glycogen depleted and the diet works much better. The whole point is to stay away from the insulin spikes.

I always thought that pre-post w/o carbs were sort of a misnomer as well. now this is based only on my personal thoughts and they way I feel pre/post, but I always feel way too bloated after if I take in more that 5-10g carb. I take in only whats in my shake, 6 or so grams with my creatine and I never feel bloated. Couple that with a high fat, high protein meal an hour later and wala (waalah?, Waala?) whatever, it seems to do very well

PS Just lost weight for the first time in a month, and my abs are the best they've been in 10 years.. to date, 30 pounds and counting. BF% 12%.. so something is working right

[Jaws08]

article about caveman diet

http://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/staf...hards_EJCN.pdf

Evidence suggest that paleo humans were very heavy meat eaters. Similar bone/teeth composition to hyaenas. Neanderthals, while not directly in our evolution line (some claim they are), are a very close relative and it is established that they were total carnivores. Paleo diet allows fruit because it "existed" back then (in a completely different form than in todays grocery store by the way) but did humans actually eat it in any significant ammount?

[MarkVI]

article about caveman diet

http://www.eva.mpg.de/evolution/staf...hards_EJCN.pdf

Evidence suggest that paleo humans were very heavy meat eaters. Similar bone/teeth composition to hyaenas. Neanderthals, while not directly in our evolution line (some claim they are), are a very close relative and it is established that they were total carnivores. Paleo diet allows fruit because it "existed" back then (in a completely different form than in todays grocery store by the way) but did humans actually eat it in any significant ammount?

Fruits is for babies....meat meat meat