No carbs post workout. How much could this hurt my gains?

[teebirdhyzer]

I am on a very carb restricted diet, and take my post workout shake without carbs. It has worked well for me this way, but I would like to know if I am hindering my progress by doing this.

thanks

[SwolenONE]

I am on a very carb restricted diet, and take my post workout shake without carbs. It has worked well for me this way, but I would like to know if I am hindering my progress by doing this.

thanks

IMO you are hurting gains, include at least 25g of dex or wms or even hrs/oats if you are dieting down pretty tough.

I would like to add, I contact Beverly from time to time regarding my nutrition (best in business customer service) and they have some of their athletes only use Muscle Provider postWO and still make gains without postWO carbs.

If it works for you then ok, but I wouldn't do it, cuz I have a high metabolic rate.

[kelso]

Since im no longer cutting, i could use something to add to my pw protiene

would this work?
http://bodybuilding.com/store/prima/carbslam.html

Guess I didnt understand the importance of post work out carbs.. never have anything but protein after my workout normally.

[SwolenONE]

Since im no longer cutting, i could use something to add to my pw protiene

Look into all-in-one type products (imo ProGlycosyn and Torrent are the two best, with the taste edge going to ProGlyc)

OR if you are just looking for a carb powder, I enjoy Carb Slam by Primaforce.

[Mike83]

Theres many different factors, if you are cutting and want the best results, you don't need carbs pwo.

I have not had them for about a few months and am in the best shape of my life and still made muscle gains and fat loss.

[Robbyrh10]

If im doing a die hard cut, then all my carbs come post workout. The rest of my meals consist of lean protiens, healthy fats, and vegetables (spinach/broccoli). Yes, i know those last veggies have carbs, but nothing that would negatively effect my goals.

[djshortsleeve]

The way I look at it, you can cut/bulk/maintain but can always do the same thing PWO. I have cut with Keto (no carbs) and still taken in 60g carbs (in the form of WMS) PWO and stayed right in Ketosis.

[pu12en12g]

I am on a very carb restricted diet, and take my post workout shake without carbs. It has worked well for me this way, but I would like to know if I am hindering my progress by doing this.

thanks

If it's working for you, congrats

[ProWrestleFan]

I eat oatmeal or eggs right after my workouts. Seams to work for me...

[BIG F@CE]

anyone else doing carbs pre-workout?

[dsade]

anyone else doing carbs pre-workout?

WMS During workout with BCAAs, taurine, beta-alanine, extra leucine, vanadyl sulfate, creatine mono, and carnitine.

Loving it.

[dvsness]

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul 3; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein does not further augment post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.

Koopman R, Beelen M, Stellingwerff T, Pennings B, Saris WH, Kies AK, Kuipers H, van Loon LJ.
Movement Sciences, NUTRIM, Maastricht University, Maastricht, Netherlands.
The present study was designed to assess the impact of co-ingestion of various amounts of carbohydrate combined to an ample amount of protein intake on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis rates. Ten healthy, fit men (20+/-0.3 y) were randomly assigned to 3 cross-over experiments. After 60 min of resistance exercise, subjects consumed 0.3 g.kg(-1).h(-1) protein hydrolysate with 0, 0.15, or 0.6 g.kg(-1).h(-1) carbohydrate during a 6 h recovery period (PRO, PRO+LCHO, and PRO+HCHO, respectively). Primed, continuous infusions with L-[ring-(13)C6]phenylalanine, L-[ring-(2)H2]tyrosine, and [6,6-(2)H2]glucose were applied, and blood and muscle samples were collected to assess whole-body protein turnover and glucose kinetics as well as protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle over 6 h of post-exercise recovery. Plasma insulin responses were significantly greater in PRO+HCHO compared to PRO+LCHO and PRO (18.4+/-2.9 vs. 3.7+/-0.5 and 1.5+/-0.2 U.6h.L(-1), respectively: P<0.001). Plasma glucose rate of appearance (Ra) and disappearance (Rd) increased over time in PRO+HCHO and PRO+LCHO but not in PRO. Plasma glucose Ra and Rd were substantially greater in PRO+HCHO vs both PRO and PRO+LCHO (P<0.01). Whole-body protein breakdown, synthesis and oxidation rates, as well as whole-body protein balance did not differ between experiments. Mixed muscle FSR did not differ between treatments and averaged 0.10+/-0.01, 0.10+/-0.01 and 0.11+/-0.01 %.h(-1) in the PRO, PRO+LCHO and PRO+HCHO experiments, respectively. In conclusion, co-ingestion of carbohydrate during recovery does not further stimulate post-exercise muscle protein synthesis when ample protein is ingested. Key words: resistance exercise, muscle, protein metabolism, nutrition, recovery.
PMID: 17609259 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

[pu12en12g]

WMS During workout with BCAAs, taurine, beta-alanine, extra leucine, vanadyl sulfate, creatine mono, and carnitine.

Loving it.

Nice

[dvsness]

Theres many different factors, if you are cutting and want the best results, you don't need carbs pwo.

I have not had them for about a few months and am in the best shape of my life and still made muscle gains and fat loss.

I'm having carbs one meal per week and my progress pics are in my journal.

[cakedonkey]

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul 3; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein does not further augment post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.

Koopman R, Beelen M, Stellingwerff T, Pennings B, Saris WH, Kies AK, Kuipers H, van Loon LJ.
Movement Sciences, NUTRIM, Maastricht University, Maastricht, Netherlands.
The present study was designed to assess the impact of co-ingestion of various amounts of carbohydrate combined to an ample amount of protein intake on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis rates. Ten healthy, fit men (20+/-0.3 y) were randomly assigned to 3 cross-over experiments. After 60 min of resistance exercise, subjects consumed 0.3 g.kg(-1).h(-1) protein hydrolysate with 0, 0.15, or 0.6 g.kg(-1).h(-1) carbohydrate during a 6 h recovery period (PRO, PRO+LCHO, and PRO+HCHO, respectively). Primed, continuous infusions with L-[ring-(13)C6]phenylalanine, L-[ring-(2)H2]tyrosine, and [6,6-(2)H2]glucose were applied, and blood and muscle samples were collected to assess whole-body protein turnover and glucose kinetics as well as protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle over 6 h of post-exercise recovery. Plasma insulin responses were significantly greater in PRO+HCHO compared to PRO+LCHO and PRO (18.4+/-2.9 vs. 3.7+/-0.5 and 1.5+/-0.2 U.6h.L(-1), respectively: P<0.001). Plasma glucose rate of appearance (Ra) and disappearance (Rd) increased over time in PRO+HCHO and PRO+LCHO but not in PRO. Plasma glucose Ra and Rd were substantially greater in PRO+HCHO vs both PRO and PRO+LCHO (P<0.01). Whole-body protein breakdown, synthesis and oxidation rates, as well as whole-body protein balance did not differ between experiments. Mixed muscle FSR did not differ between treatments and averaged 0.10+/-0.01, 0.10+/-0.01 and 0.11+/-0.01 %.h(-1) in the PRO, PRO+LCHO and PRO+HCHO experiments, respectively. In conclusion, co-ingestion of carbohydrate during recovery does not further stimulate post-exercise muscle protein synthesis when ample protein is ingested. Key words: resistance exercise, muscle, protein metabolism, nutrition, recovery.
PMID: 17609259 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

*tear*...

Good post.

That is just the paper the OP needs to read.

[BIG F@CE]

Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2007 Jul 3; [Epub ahead of print] Links
Co-ingestion of carbohydrate with protein does not further augment post-exercise muscle protein synthesis.

Koopman R, Beelen M, Stellingwerff T, Pennings B, Saris WH, Kies AK, Kuipers H, van Loon LJ.
Movement Sciences, NUTRIM, Maastricht University, Maastricht, Netherlands.
The present study was designed to assess the impact of co-ingestion of various amounts of carbohydrate combined to an ample amount of protein intake on post-exercise muscle protein synthesis rates. Ten healthy, fit men (20+/-0.3 y) were randomly assigned to 3 cross-over experiments. After 60 min of resistance exercise, subjects consumed 0.3 g.kg(-1).h(-1) protein hydrolysate with 0, 0.15, or 0.6 g.kg(-1).h(-1) carbohydrate during a 6 h recovery period (PRO, PRO+LCHO, and PRO+HCHO, respectively). Primed, continuous infusions with L-[ring-(13)C6]phenylalanine, L-[ring-(2)H2]tyrosine, and [6,6-(2)H2]glucose were applied, and blood and muscle samples were collected to assess whole-body protein turnover and glucose kinetics as well as protein fractional synthesis rate (FSR) in the vastus lateralis muscle over 6 h of post-exercise recovery. Plasma insulin responses were significantly greater in PRO+HCHO compared to PRO+LCHO and PRO (18.4+/-2.9 vs. 3.7+/-0.5 and 1.5+/-0.2 U.6h.L(-1), respectively: P<0.001). Plasma glucose rate of appearance (Ra) and disappearance (Rd) increased over time in PRO+HCHO and PRO+LCHO but not in PRO. Plasma glucose Ra and Rd were substantially greater in PRO+HCHO vs both PRO and PRO+LCHO (P<0.01). Whole-body protein breakdown, synthesis and oxidation rates, as well as whole-body protein balance did not differ between experiments. Mixed muscle FSR did not differ between treatments and averaged 0.10+/-0.01, 0.10+/-0.01 and 0.11+/-0.01 %.h(-1) in the PRO, PRO+LCHO and PRO+HCHO experiments, respectively. In conclusion, co-ingestion of carbohydrate during recovery does not further stimulate post-exercise muscle protein synthesis when ample protein is ingested. Key words: resistance exercise, muscle, protein metabolism, nutrition, recovery.
PMID: 17609259 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

thats what i thought...... key ingredient in post workout is protein! protein! protein!

[dvsness]

Fwiw, though, I do use carbs while bulking, and would include them in a mass building plan. But I have had no problems maintaining muscle without them.

[SwolenONE]

Fwiw, though, I do use carbs while bulking, and would include them in a mass building plan. But I have had no problems maintaining muscle without them.

I can only hope the same is true for me when I cut in March, I've always taken in more carbs than proteins or fats.

[proteinpump]

I'm having carbs one meal per week and my progress pics are in my journal.

Wow, what is your typical day diet wise?

[dvsness]

Wow, what is your typical day diet wise?

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3729891

[ElMariachi]

People tend to overdo the postworkout carbs way too much IMO. I see so a lot of people freak out about their "postworkout carbs" and then not put nearly as much emphasis on their diet the rest of the time.

Unless you're an endurance athlete, I doubt that you are depleting that incredible of an amount of glycogen to require immediate carbohydrate consumption for recovery.

Are they helpful? Yes. Will not having carbs postworkout make gains impossible? I highly doubt it and most trainers I know put their clients on a "no postworkout carb" regimen when they are dieting down for a show and those folks seem to do just fine.

The key to remember is that carbohydrates are protein sparing. If you are taking in a lot of carbohydrates, you have no need for huge amounts of protein, and when you are on a low-carbohydrate diet, then you need to increase your protein consumption accordingly.

[ChristianBBer]

People tend to overdo the postworkout carbs way too much IMO. I see so a lot of people freak out about their "postworkout carbs" and then not put nearly as much emphasis on their diet the rest of the time.

Unless you're an endurance athlete, I doubt that you are depleting that incredible of an amount of glycogen to require immediate carbohydrate consumption for recovery.

Are they helpful? Yes. Will not having carbs postworkout make gains impossible? I highly doubt it and most trainers I know put their clients on a "no postworkout carb" regimen when they are dieting down for a show and those folks seem to do just fine.

The key to remember is that carbohydrates are protein sparing. If you are taking in a lot of carbohydrates, you have no need for huge amounts of protein, and when you are on a low-carbohydrate diet, then you need to increase your protein consumption accordingly.

Dieting down for a show your not concerned with gains. Your concerned with leanness.

SECONDLY , You need carbs post workout. Ill ask my 12 yr old sister to come on these boards and give you a post training lesson on carbohydrate intake.

BTW do you have any pictures of yourself? Id love to see your physic ( no homo) after seeing such advice you have given.

[dvsness]

Dieting down for a show your not concerned with gains. Your concerned with leanness.

SECONDLY , You need carbs post workout. Ill ask my 12 yr old sister to come on these boards and give you a post training lesson on carbohydrate intake.

BTW do you have any pictures of yourself? Id love to see your physic ( no homo) after seeing such advice you have given.

Carbs are needed for glycogen replenishment, but not protein synthesis. You use the term need very loosely. NO, they are not needed.

[ElMariachi]

Dieting down for a show your not concerned with gains. Your concerned with leanness.

First of all, it is you're, and second of all, that is exactly what we are talking about in this situation, someone dieting down for leanness, hence the lack of need for postworkout carbs.

SECONDLY , You need carbs post workout. Ill ask my 12 yr old sister to come on these boards and give you a post training lesson on carbohydrate intake.

O RLY????

Science? Proof? Seriously, people pass off a lot of stuff as fact, but don't understand the actual reasoning behind it. There's more than a few people that would agree completely with my reasoning. Vince Gironda was a major proponent of this, Alan Aragon is another, Charles Poliquin himself has written extensively on this issue.

Either provide some solid reasoning, otherwise I don't care about your 12 yr old sister, I've been training longer than she's been alive.

[ChristianBBer]

Carbs are needed for glycogen replenishment, but not protein synthesis. You use the term need very loosely. NO, they are not needed.

Alright then look outside the box

What does your body use as a primary source of energy ? Carbs

What happens if you have no carbs? No energy, no motivation.

Your going to have an intense workout and try and enter hypertrophy without adequate carb consumption ??

Sounds like it'll hurt your gains to me.

I wrote a thesis on carbohydrates, I might know a thing or two about their benefits . Just a few things though, this day an age earning a BS degree in sports nutrition is evidently EASY !!!!!

[dvsness]

Alright then look outside the box

What does your body use as a primary source of energy ? Carbs

What happens if you have no carbs? No energy, no motivation.

Your going to have an intense workout and try and enter hypertrophy without adequate carb consumption ??

Sounds like it'll hurt your gains to me.

I wrote a thesis on carbohydrates, I might know a thing or two about their benefits . Just a few things though, this day an age earning a BS degree in sports nutrition is evidently EASY !!!!!

My body uses fats. Ever hear of ketosis? I have motivation and energy to spare if you need some.

[ElMariachi]

Carbs are needed for glycogen replenishment, but not protein synthesis. You use the term need very loosely. NO, they are not needed.

Exactly. The thing that I've always questioned is how much glycogen is really being used up in the average weight-training session. When I was a long distance runner for example, I KNEW I needed carbs. I would do a long run of about 8-10 miles and if I didn't have some sort of carbs, the next day I would literally be unable to function properly. I couldn't get away without carbs in that situation, but when doing an average weight-workout, I could go for days without them and still be active and function just fine.

[ElMariachi]

Alright then look outside the box

What does your body use as a primary source of energy ? Carbs

What happens if you have no carbs? No energy, no motivation.

Your going to have an intense workout and try and enter hypertrophy without adequate carb consumption ??

Sounds like it'll hurt your gains to me.

I wrote a thesis on carbohydrates, I might know a thing or two about their benefits . Just a few things though, this day an age earning a BS degree in sports nutrition is evidently EASY !!!!!

Do they teach you basic biology in that program?????



PS-Only insecure people losing an argument resort to the "I WROTE A THESIS ON CARBOHYDRATES." Oh yeah, well I'm heading down to Houston in a couple of weeks to be an astronaut. What do you think about that? Internet credentials are bunk.

[ChristianBBer]

Do they teach you basic biology in that program?????



PS-Only insecure people losing an argument resort to the "I WROTE A THESIS ON CARBOHYDRATES." Oh yeah, well I'm heading down to Houston in a couple of weeks to be an astronaut. What do you think about that? Internet credentials are bunk.

Please post a picture of yourself.

[ElMariachi]

Please post a picture of yourself.

This isn't one of my better pictures, but heck, I was in a bulking phase.