what do you think of Carosine (next creatine?) and Citrulline Malate?

**Zachattack43** · 11-06-2003, 09:06 PM

Carosine promises to be the new creatine and citrulline malate promises to be big too.
here are the links to the bb.com articles
Citrulline Malate - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/jrod3.htm
Carosine - http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/tallon4.htm

**Zachattack43** · 11-07-2003, 12:28 AM

bump

**Jedi Master** · 11-07-2003, 12:36 AM

I cant see it being better than the newer forms of creatine salt.

**RippedUp** · 11-08-2003, 02:37 AM

Yes, citrulline malate is probably one of the next big things.

I'll be testing some very soon.

**GhostfaceKillah** · 11-08-2003, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by RippedUp
Yes, citrulline malate is probably one of the next big things.

I'll be testing some very soon.

Who makes a citrulline malate product?

**dito** · 11-08-2003, 08:43 AM

Who is Joey working for now?

**RippedUp** · 11-08-2003, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by dito
Who is Joey working for now?

For himself.

**dito** · 11-08-2003, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by RippedUp
For himself.

Is he starting his own company or just selling his ideas?

**dito** · 11-08-2003, 09:03 AM

Joey Rodrigues is the CEO of MAN Sports Products, Inc.

**pu12en12g** · 11-08-2003, 09:14 AM

L-Carnosine looks like good stuff. I'm going to give it a try for 1 month just for the hell of it. A months supply is only $20 so that's not bad.

**rs1000** · 11-08-2003, 12:32 PM

Carnosine has been shown in studies with rodents to extend lifespan. Perhaps this is indication that it may be safe, healthy, and beneficial to supplement with long term.

In addition, carnosine has been shown to:

-- Reduce glycation
-- Inhibit advanced glycation end product (A.G.E.) formation
-- inhibit lipid peroxidation and a toxic chemical resulting from this process

-- inhibit protein carbonylation
-- chelates ionic metals
-- act as an effective anti-oxidant
-- been shown to rejuvenate aged tissue in culture
-- old rodents which had been fed carnosine chronically in a study looked younger and were more active than controls
-- anti-inflammatory
(probably others I'm not thinking of)

It appears to increase the rate of healing in rodents. Since carnosine is found in significant amounts in skeletal muscle tissue, perhaps supplementation with carnosine may help to speed recovery after weightlifting:

See:
Roberts PR, Black KW, Santamauro JT. Dietary peptides improve wound healing following surgery. Nutrition, 1998, 14(3);266-269.

The optimum dosage of this substance is a matter of debate. Different experts recommend anything from 200mg to 1 gram or more of carnosine daily. I currently take 500mg every twelve hours.
The reason for this is speculation is over whether the benefits from carnosine are due to the carnosine itself, or the higher levels of histidine and alinine achieved by supplementation, or a combination of both. A dosage like 200mg may have no benefit if it is carnosine itself which is giving the positive health benefits, because there is enough carnosinase in the body to break down this entire amount.

The more common recommendation is to take approximately 500mg twice daily. This amount is high enough to saturate the carnosine enzyme, plus provide extra in order to allow carnosine levels in the body to rise.

There is a rare condition associated with carnosine called "carnosinemia" which has its onset at birth. Children with this disorder have developmental problems, muscular disorder, and eventual retardation, among other symptoms. They are found to excrete significant amounts of carnosine in the urine, likely because they lack the enzyme 'carnosinase' to break it down. It is unclear whether or not it is toxicity from carnosine or a deficiency in the two amino acids which is responsible for the symptoms. It seems that doctors in the past have assumed that is toxicity from carnosine. However, I did some research and found a published case of a girl who, even after all sources of dietary carnosine were eliminated, continued to excrete significant carnosine in the urine. This leads me to hypothesize that the body in people with carnosinemia is producing carnosine in a desperate attempt to utilize its constituent amino acids which must be necessary for normal metabolic function. However, since they are not producing carnosinase, the amino acids do not become available. This leads me to think that the lack of bioavailability of the histidine and alinine is responsible for some of the symptoms and that the higher levels of carnosine may or may not contribute to the symptoms of this disorder. Some people have opted not to supplement with carnosine because of these concerns. As an analogy, people with advanced uncontrolled diabetes will produce massive amounts of ketones in order to produce glucose through gluconeogenesis. However, since it isn't sugar which the body is lacking, but rather insulin which is needed to shuttle sugar into cells, the process only makes symptoms worse. The excess ketones cause ketoacidosis while the lack of glucose inside cells requiring it is also leading to death, and the unusable sugar in the bloodstream is causing destruction to bodily tissue.

However, carnosine has become a popular anti-aging supplement taken by thousands of people, and I have not seen reports of toxicity or symptoms of carnosinemia reported. Plus, rodents supplemented with large amounts of carnosine have not shown these symptoms, AFAIK. I'm hypothesizing that the symptoms of carnosinemia are due chiefly to the inability to utilize histidine and alinine, and that carnosine doesn't become toxic except at levels much higher than that which would result from reasonable supplementation.

**Patrick Arnold** · 11-08-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by RippedUp
Yes, citrulline malate is probably one of the next big things.

I'll be testing some very soon.

ergopharm is releasing citrulline malate probably within the next 6 weeks.

I have been working on citrulline malate for 3 years. we make our own and it will be cheaper than anyone elses

**dito** · 11-08-2003, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
ergopharm is releasing citrulline malate probably within the next 6 weeks.

I have been working on citrulline malate for 3 years. we make our own and it will be cheaper than anyone elses

I wish you has testers on the boards. I guess you dont need to though.

**GhostfaceKillah** · 11-08-2003, 02:32 PM

PA - is the product in pill or powder form? What is the recommended dosage and dosage time?

**SavesTheMuscle** · 11-08-2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
ergopharm is releasing citrulline malate probably within the next 6 weeks.

I have been working on citrulline malate for 3 years. we make our own and it will be cheaper than anyone elses

can't wait!!!!!!!

**Patrick Arnold** · 11-08-2003, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by GhostfaceKillah
PA - is the product in pill or powder form? What is the recommended dosage and dosage time?

It is in liquid form. one capful is 3 grams of citrulline malate. you take two caps a day. Either before working out or spread out (one cap in morning, one at night)

IF you take a creatine product then it might be best to take the full 6 grams with your creatine

**daveburton** · 11-08-2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
ergopharm is releasing citrulline malate probably within the next 6 weeks.

I have been working on citrulline malate for 3 years. we make our own and it will be cheaper than anyone elses

Just heard of SAN's 'OX' product, scheduled to be released early December 2003!!!!! 180 Caplets of Citrulline-Malate with Regall Biosorb Delivery....

**daveburton** · 11-08-2003, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by GhostfaceKillah
Who makes a citrulline malate product?

Check SAN within the next 4 weeks!

**Vinnie Bobarino** · 11-08-2003, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
ergopharm is releasing citrulline malate probably within the next 6 weeks.

I have been working on citrulline malate for 3 years. we make our own and it will be cheaper than anyone elses

What will it be selling for?

Dave,

Do you know what SAN's will be selling for. And what is Regal Bisorb Delivery?

**daveburton** · 11-08-2003, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by Vinnie Bobarino
What will it be selling for?

Dave,

Do you know what SAN's will be selling for. And what is Regal Bisorb Delivery?

They probably will start with a 90 count first and add the 180 by jan or feb of 2004. Around $45 for 30 servings of 3grams Citrulline Malate. Check with their website regarding the delivery system by early december

**dito** · 11-08-2003, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by daveburton
They probably will start with a 90 count first and add the 180 by jan or feb of 2004. Around $45 for 30 servings of 3grams Citrulline Malate. Check with their website regarding the delivery system by early december

Do you work for San or something?

**Vinnie Bobarino** · 11-08-2003, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by pu12en12g
L-Carnosine looks like good stuff. I'm going to give it a try for 1 month just for the hell of it. A months supply is only $20 so that's not bad.

L-Carnosine, may take some time for you to notice results...You may want to give it a little longer than a month.

How much do you plan on taking? I have been thinking of experimenting with it, so I would be interested to hear your feedback.

**pu12en12g** · 11-08-2003, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Vinnie Bobarino
L-Carnosine, may take some time for you to notice results...You may want to give it a little longer than a month.

How much do you plan on taking? I have been thinking of experimenting with it, so I would be interested to hear your feedback.

I hear ya.

However, here is my thought process for supplements:

If I can take a reasonable dose or megadose consistantly for 30 days, and not see results, then the supplement is not worth my money or time.

For example: Creatine, I see and feel results within a couple weeks, increased protein or BCAA's, I see and feel results within 1 week, flaxseed oil, i see and feel results within 1 week, taurine / tyrosine I see and feel results same day, nitric oxide products, I see and feel results same day.

So I will probably do a 30 day review of L-Carnosine, and a follw-up when I come off it, but you're right, there might be no noticable effects (like HMB or CLA)

.

**Patrick Arnold** · 11-08-2003, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by daveburton
Just heard of SAN's 'OX' product, scheduled to be released early December 2003!!!!! 180 Caplets of Citrulline-Malate with Regall Biosorb Delivery....

citrulline malate needs no special delivery system

**Patrick Arnold** · 11-08-2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by daveburton
They probably will start with a 90 count first and add the 180 by jan or feb of 2004. Around $45 for 30 servings of 3grams Citrulline Malate. Check with their website regarding the delivery system by early december

I am pretty sure ours will cost about the same but have 48 - 3gram servings per bottle

**Serengetti** · 11-09-2003, 12:46 AM

Regall Biosorb Delivery sounds like a fancy euphemism for nothing. Can anyone elaborate? Someone from SAN perharps?

**libremag** · 11-09-2003, 03:24 AM

I've tried citrulline (not citurlline malate). It gave my dinky boners and my arms got a pretty good pump from doing just two sets of seated dumbell curls. I don't know if the malate ingredient would make a huge difference.... maybe? I bought the citrulline from BAC -- $25/100grams.

But, you know, good 'ol vanadyl sulfate has always given me great pumps, especially in the arms and back. And vanadyl sulfate is CHEAP.

Oh yeah, citrulline smell like an old swimming pool filter! It goes down okay, though. I mixed it with Gatorade.

**Zachattack43** · 11-09-2003, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by Patrick Arnold
ergopharm is releasing citrulline malate probably within the next 6 weeks.

I have been working on citrulline malate for 3 years. we make our own and it will be cheaper than anyone elses

why will yours be cheaper than others?

**dito** · 11-09-2003, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by zachattack43
why will yours be cheaper than others?

Because he makes his own instead of outsourcing it. Taking one persons fingers out of the honey pot.

**RippedUp** · 11-10-2003, 12:24 PM

Just received about 120g of citrulline malate.

Will start using it tomorrow and report back.

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