Weight Loss / Fat loss / Muscle Gain

[LeadingMan]

Hi guys,

I started a journey towards a new and better me about 1-2 months ago and I guess I'm looking for some validation / motivation that I'm moving in the right direction and doing the right things. My primary goal is to lose my gut, other than my gut I was an ok sized guy, I don't have a large frame but I live a very sedentary lifestyle (desk job, videogames haha) so I had an average build but with a big gut. I'm looking to change that.

So, please don't try to bog me down too much with over technical things haha. I've worked out my TDEE as close as I can be bothered to (for now) and I've been steadily losing weight whilst never going hungry. I have a caloric goal of around 1800 which I can stay under perfectly fine but I make sure to eat plenty to get me nice and close. I stay under the fats / sugars 99% of the time also.

I'm gunna try to add some attachments. One will be the Body Fat % screens of a Boditrax result from 10th Feb and the other is the same screen from today. I've lost somewhere around 5kg+ and I think this is showing that 4.5kg of that has been a body fat loss, so I should be happy?

Some motivation, encouragement and confirmation that I'm doing something right would be appreciated. Happy for pointers / advice too.

I go to the gym 5 days a week working different muscle groups on each day. I try to do varied exercises also. I'm not trying to be the next Arnie, just lose body fat and maintain or gain muscle.

[dmacdonal9]

If you're training and losing weight you're on the right path.

Ignore that bodyfat measurement thing, it's useless.

You will want to pay closer attention to macros to ensure adequate protein and fat. Especially when you post about staying "under" on fat. Most people don't get enough dietary fat on a cut. You should have a minimum goal for fat, not a limit.

[LeadingMan]

If you're training and losing weight you're on the right path.

Ignore that bodyfat measurement thing, it's useless.

You will want to pay closer attention to macros to ensure adequate protein and fat. Especially when you post about staying "under" on fat. Most people don't get enough dietary fat on a cut. You should have a minimum goal for fat, not a limit.

Thanks, I like the body fat thing though cause y'know, that's what I wanna lose!

Total Kcal 1817 (my TDEE minus around 400 and some for defecit)
Protein 159g
Carbs 182g
Fat 50g

Some days I can get very close to these numbers and others I don't. Yesterday for example was 1696Kcal, 2g away from Protein Goal, 28g away from Carbs, and spot on 50g of fat.

[chamelious]

Thanks, I like the body fat thing though cause y'know, that's what I wanna lose!

Total Kcal 1817 (my TDEE minus around 400 and some for defecit)
Protein 159g
Carbs 182g
Fat 50g

Some days I can get very close to these numbers and others I don't. Yesterday for example was 1696Kcal, 2g away from Protein Goal, 28g away from Carbs, and spot on 50g of fat.

Remember hitting macro numbers exactly is completely unnecessary.

Try to hit protein minimum. Try to hit fat minimum. Try really hard not to go over on calories. That's as complex as it ever needs to be really.

[LeadingMan]

Remember hitting macro numbers exactly is completely unnecessary.

Try to hit protein minimum. Try to hit fat minimum. Try really hard not to go over on calories. That's as complex as it ever needs to be really.

Hey that's good to know. I've always tried to be really close, and sometimes I've even had perfect days but I'm COMPLETELY new to this. If I notice I'm ever short on Calories I always try to hit Protein as an absolute minimum. So like, if I know I'm gunna fall behind on calories by a few hundred I will try my best to atleast hit my Protein Goal. Sometimes if it means hitting my calories I'll go over on Protein and be under on Carbs.

Why is hitting a fat macro so important? Fat is bad! No? Haha.

[chamelious]

Hey that's good to know. I've always tried to be really close, and sometimes I've even had perfect days but I'm COMPLETELY new to this. If I notice I'm ever short on Calories I always try to hit Protein as an absolute minimum. So like, if I know I'm gunna fall behind on calories by a few hundred I will try my best to atleast hit my Protein Goal. Sometimes if it means hitting my calories I'll go over on Protein and be under on Carbs.

Why is hitting a fat macro so important? Fat is bad! No? Haha.

...No. No idea where you've gotten that from. Fat is important for a bunch of reasons.

Again, you don't have a minimum for carbs, so you can't be "under" on that.

[LeadingMan]

...No. No idea where you've gotten that from. Fat is important for a bunch of reasons.

Again, you don't have a minimum for carbs, so you can't be "under" on that.

Well I know where I've gotten it from lmao, from like basically everywhere telling you that fat is bad, "0% fat!" "Now low Fat!" "Fat Free!" any of that sound familiar lmao. I did mention I was new to this

Ok so, hit the protein goal, hit the fat goal, hit the calorie goal but don't go over. Don't exceed the Carb goal but don't necessarily need to reach it.

Gotcha.

[davisj3537]

The fat on your body is not in any way related to the fat you're consuming really. Dietary fats are essential. Hell, the dreaded "trans fats" are essential. Burning fat does not replace these essential dietary fats. Going too low on fats has all kinds of weird consequences like erectile disfunction. Tell me one guy who is cool with that. lol. Fats play a role in overall sanity as well.

The bodyfat measurements device was advised to be disregarded because it's about as accurate as me guessing your bodyfat % from your grammar. They are a gimmick to get your money. One day you'll be 20% and might be 28% the next. They are just sh*t brother.


No shame in being new; we were all there. Ask questions when you're confused

[LeadingMan]

The fat on your body is not in any way related to the fat you're consuming really. Dietary fats are essential. Hell, the dreaded "trans fats" are essential. Burning fat does not replace these essential dietary fats. Going too low on fats has all kinds of weird consequences like erectile disfunction. Tell me one guy who is cool with that. lol. Fats play a role in overall sanity as well.

Thanks

The bodyfat measurements device was advised to be disregarded because it's about as accurate as me guessing your bodyfat % from your grammar. They are a gimmick to get your money. One day you'll be 20% and might be 28% the next. They are just sh*t brother.


No shame in being new; we were all there. Ask questions when you're confused

Aight, ok, I get it. Well I'll just make sure to get that fat in, my diet is kinda naturally fat free but I can add something I'm sure haha, Mayo!

Well today I am just 50kcal shy of my 1817 goal.
My Macros are like

43%/22%/35% (Carb, Fat, Protein) when I was aiming for 40%/25%/35%. I've had better days but I've definitely had worse days.

I'm 4g shy of my 159g Protein Goal
5g over a Carb goal of 182g
and 7g away from a Fat goal of 50.

So all in all, I'm pretty close, would have been nicer to go a little lower on carbs but y'know. 4-5g away I'm not gunna sweat.

I train 5 days a week in the gym, I don't train on weekends. I was told to continue the same diet even on these non training days. That sound right?

Oh and also, regarding the body fat % thing. The machine is free, even if I didn't want to look at Bodyfat its just handy to use for the regular weight tracking as its all uploaded and stored with graphs and charts etc. I understand that the impedance testing is far from 100% accurate, but I don't think it's incredibly far off. It's consistent with the result my home scales give me so even if the number a few % off, I can atleast track progress.

[LeadingMan]

Another question.

How detrimental is a cheat day or weekend?

Like last night we were doing a lot of DIY in the day & we ordered an Indian around 10pm because it was too late (we were too tired) to cook etc.

Tikka Masalla for those interested

Just wondering if literally 365 of clean macro fitting eating is required or if 1 or 2 days a weekend will really kill you or doesn't matter.

[BecomingSmaller]

I don't obsess about hitting targets every single day as long as I'm there or there about and it looks good over a week.

Regarding cheat days/weekends, try and make it 1 cheat meal not a whole day/weekend. That said, I am normally over the daily target Saturday and Sunday, then under the rest of the week, which makes Sunday-Tuesday bad weigh in days for me. I just make sure that weekly I am on the average target.

[LeadingMan]

I don't obsess about hitting targets every single day as long as I'm there or there about and it looks good over a week.

Regarding cheat days/weekends, try and make it 1 cheat meal not a whole day/weekend. That said, I am normally over the daily target Saturday and Sunday, then under the rest of the week, which makes Sunday-Tuesday bad weigh in days for me. I just make sure that weekly I am on the average target.

Thanks as always for the response. Usually I'm good even on weekends but this weekend I've lapsed & had some sugars & a creamy bechamel ham sandwich and all sorts. Bad I know.

I weigh in once a week now on Saturdays. I will remember to keep it to just one meal rather than a weekend, I've resolved not to have another cheat weekend for a few weeks now. I'll keep it clean. This ties in to another question I had on wether or not to lower my kcals / macros on non-training days.

I'm really hoping I'm doing these things right, I want to get down to being lean with little fat so I can maybe bulk up after?

[CommitmentRulz]

Another question.

How detrimental is a cheat day or weekend?

Generally, it's not. However, it varies based on how wild the cheat was. I've seen guys post here who are having trouble losing weight and "only have a cheat day on a Saturday or Sunday each week". After digging through it, you discover that they are eating at say, 500 calories a day deficit (3000 total deficit for 6 days) but then having a blow out Saturday and eating 3000 calories OVER maintenance on that one cheat day - and they wonder why the scale is not dropping.

[LeadingMan]

Oh ok wow, no nothing like that. Just like, eating clean all week & then maybe a Domino's or Indian on the weekend, or some drinks on a Friday night.

Ok thanks again.

[chamelious]

Oh ok wow, no nothing like that. Just like, eating clean all week & then maybe a Domino's or Indian on the weekend, or some drinks on a Friday night.

Ok thanks again.

FYI there is no absolutely no such thing as "clean" food. Please give this a read: http://www.completehumanperformance.com/clean-eating/

[LeadingMan]

FYI there is no absolutely no such thing as "clean" food.

I read it all, pretty interesting and informative, but I guess that much like the way he mentions that for every guy telling you don't eat meat, there's another telling you not to eat dairy / wheat etc. that for every guy (himself included) telling you clean-eating is a myth there is another telling you it isn't.

So its still a case of one word against another. However, I will keep this in mind. My main focus is more on consistency. I figure that a consistent imperfect plan / diet must be better than an inconsistent perfect one. So I focus on calorie total as number 1. I always try to hit Protein as number 2 (and now Fat also after above comments). And I avoid ever exceeding sugar / carb goals.

But on the weekends, I do allow myself some sweet treats, some cookies etc. I just try my best to stay under the calorie goal. Thanks for all the help again, I know I have a lot of questions

[LeadingMan]

Ok here is another one.

I've put everything in to MFP this morning for the day. I'm at 1797 Calories of a 1817 Goal, so only 20 shy but my Macros look like the attached.

I'm 19g over on Protein and Fat. Well below on Carbs and Sugar. Lower than I'd like to be on Fibre but I'm working on increasing this.

My question is. Is this ok? I'm at the calorie goal, consuming enough Protein / Fat and low on Carbs / Sugar.

Looks like a win, right?

[ItsTiME35]

Ok here is another one.

I've put everything in to MFP this morning for the day. I'm at 1797 Calories of a 1817 Goal, so only 20 shy but my Macros look like the attached.

I'm 19g over on Protein and Fat. Well below on Carbs and Sugar. Lower than I'd like to be on Fibre but I'm working on increasing this.

My question is. Is this ok? I'm at the calorie goal, consuming enough Protein / Fat and low on Carbs / Sugar.

Looks like a win, right?

couple of things man. Firstly you are doing most things spot on. You are self aware and actually knowledgeable as to what you are eating and consuming which puts you ahead of a lot of people. Try not to get too hung up on the tiny details - its what you do most consistantly that counts. If you eat really well 90% of the time then the 10% aint going to kill your progress too much. it will slow it obviously but wont do you massive damage.
If you each crap 60% of time and super well 40% of the time you aint gonna get anywhere.

Try not to worry about 10grams here or there as long as you are there or thereabouts. Some days you will hit protein and fats, some days well over and some days a little under. It balances out man. Try and look at it like below priorities :-

Number 1 - Keep under your total calories target
Number 2 - Hit your Marcos
Number 3 - Food types (ie good sources of food)
Number 4 - Meal timings
(2 and 3 are pretty interchangeable)

Reference cheating - make it a cheat meal (not weekend or day) and make smart choices - if your going for a kebab make it chicken with no sauce, for Indian make it tomato based rather than creamy - also maybe chapatis rather than naan bread, cut out the rice if you can. If its fish a chips remove the batter from the fish. If its a burger make it naked (ie no bun). These small choices have a big impact on your cheat meal.

Some of the more knoweldgable people maybe able to correct me a little but the above is how I see it

Well done so far man

[chamelious]

for every guy (himself included) telling you clean-eating is a myth there is another telling you it isn't.

This is a pretty backwards way to interpret the article, it doesn't really sound like you understood it. If i were you, i'd read it again, and focus on the fact that "clean" has absolutely no universally agreed upon meaning.

Cookies are not "unclean" or "dirty" in some way.

[LeadingMan]

This is a pretty backwards way to interpret the article, it doesn't really sound like you understood it. If i were you, i'd read it again, and focus on the fact that "clean" has absolutely no universally agreed upon meaning.

Cookies are not "unclean" or "dirty" in some way.

No, I get it, I understood it, I didn't say that this was how I interpreted the article. I was merely playing Devil's Advocate. The article was one guy's opinion and he makes the point himself that just because somebody tells you it is so, doesn't make it so. I don't make a habit of automatically accepting everything I read. I do understand what he is saying, and to be honest I pretty much agree. Calories for the most part are calories, energy is energy. Eat 'Clean' or 'Dirty' but within your caloric total and you wont be putting on weight.

Gold Rule: Less Calories in than Calories Out = Weight Loss.

I could eat nothing but 'bad foods' and still lose weight if I stayed under my calorie goal, but normally the fatty / sugary foods are more calorie dense and so I wouldn't be able to eat an awful lot of them before I hit the target. If I ate enough 'bad foods' to replace the satiated feeling I get from eating my regular breakfast, lunch and dinner I'd be consuming waaay too many calories total and so I'd put weight on. I get and understand the article completely, thank you for checking.

couple of things man. Firstly you are doing most things spot on. You are self aware and actually knowledgeable as to what you are eating and consuming which puts you ahead of a lot of people. Try not to get too hung up on the tiny details - its what you do most consistantly that counts. If you eat really well 90% of the time then the 10% aint going to kill your progress too much. it will slow it obviously but wont do you massive damage.
If you each crap 60% of time and super well 40% of the time you aint gonna get anywhere.

Try not to worry about 10grams here or there as long as you are there or thereabouts. Some days you will hit protein and fats, some days well over and some days a little under. It balances out man. Try and look at it like below priorities :-

Number 1 - Keep under your total calories target
Number 2 - Hit your Marcos
Number 3 - Food types (ie good sources of food)
Number 4 - Meal timings
(2 and 3 are pretty interchangeable)

Reference cheating - make it a cheat meal (not weekend or day) and make smart choices - if your going for a kebab make it chicken with no sauce, for Indian make it tomato based rather than creamy - also maybe chapatis rather than naan bread, cut out the rice if you can. If its fish a chips remove the batter from the fish. If its a burger make it naked (ie no bun). These small choices have a big impact on your cheat meal.

Some of the more knoweldgable people maybe able to correct me a little but the above is how I see it

Well done so far man

Thanks a lot, I needed to read something like this. I focus on my calories total and I can safely say I don't think I've ever gone over them. Maybe once or twice when I've had something like a large Domino's for dinner one evening but on the whole I never exceed my calorie goal.

I've been working to the idea that I needed to mix up my nutrient intake, and as such I've actually been striving to hit my targets for Protein, Carbs, Fats etc. in MFP but as with the above comments I can see now that I don't need to 'hit' a carb total, just hit my calorie goal with as few carbs as possible.

I've lost 5.7kg in the last two months and its made a very noticeable change to my figure, it seems to have all been from body fat as my arms / shoulders are definitely looking a bit more toned and better than before, and I've not once had to feel hungry or that I'm missing out. I go to the gym 5 days a week and that gives me a plenty large calorie defecit to be able to eat proper meals.

[chamelious]

I could eat nothing but 'bad foods' and still lose weight if I stayed under my calorie goal, but normally the fatty / sugary foods are more calorie dense and so I wouldn't be able to eat an awful lot of them before I hit the target. If I ate enough 'bad foods' to replace the satiated feeling I get from eating my regular breakfast, lunch and dinner I'd be consuming waaay too many calories total and so I'd put weight on. I get and understand the article completely, thank you for checking.

That's great. Most people simply refuse to accept this.

[ItsTiME35]

I've lost 5.7kg in the last two months and its made a very noticeable change to my figure, it seems to have all been from body fat as my arms / shoulders are definitely looking a bit more toned and better than before, and I've not once had to feel hungry or that I'm missing out. I go to the gym 5 days a week and that gives me a plenty large calorie defecit to be able to eat proper meals.

Well played sir, like I said with your knowledge and self aware nature you are already head and shoulders above most people starting out. Keep at it and reassess as you go. 12lb in 2 months puts you bang on for loss between 1-2lb a week which is exactly were you should be.

[ItsTiME35]

That's great. Most people simply refuse to accept this.

exactly.. guy is knowledgeable plus accepting of advice. Hes ahead of the game already

[LeadingMan]

Thanks.

Once I drop maybe another 10kg or so I do want to consider coming back up with more muscle, which actually seems like it might be easier than the current cutting part because if I've understood this correctly I'm already doing the 5 days weight lifting I just need to up my calorie intake to have more coming in than going out? How much of a Caloric surplus do you need for bulking / putting on muscle? Is it 'the more the better' or do you want to aim for a small surplus? For now I just want to slim, slim, slim down. I want to keep losing the weight & hoping that it will eventually leave my belly as thats now getting to be my very last flabby part.

If I stick with the less calories in vs more out it will eventually leave my stomach, right? Seems I'm making losses everywhere except my waist.

[davisj3537]

small surplus for muscle gain. 2-3lbs a month. stomach fat is generally the last to go.

[LeadingMan]

small surplus for muscle gain. 2-3lbs a month. stomach fat is generally the last to go.

Hey, thanks for responding. What's a small surplus? Like 100kcal, 200kcal, 300kcal? Thanks

I keep hearing it's the last to go and so I'm sticking with it, I just don't want my face to become really gaunt before my belly fat goes! I'll stick with it for now, hopefully in another month or so I'll have lost it and can start looking to bulk a little.

I have Carb Killer protein bars and MaxiMuscle shakes (which I don't just neck like regular drinks / bars, I use them post-training or when I'm missing those last few protein grams or kcals etc.) which I'm sure will become more useful when bulking.

As well as consuming a surplus of kcal, will I also want to make sure I'm consuming more of my total Kcals from protein in the bulking phase?

[ItsTiME35]

Hey, thanks for responding. What's a small surplus? Like 100kcal, 200kcal, 300kcal? Thanks

I keep hearing it's the last to go and so I'm sticking with it, I just don't want my face to become really gaunt before my belly fat goes! I'll stick with it for now, hopefully in another month or so I'll have lost it and can start looking to bulk a little.

I have Carb Killer protein bars and MaxiMuscle shakes (which I don't just neck like regular drinks / bars, I use them post-training or when I'm missing those last few protein grams or kcals etc.) which I'm sure will become more useful when bulking.

As well as consuming a surplus of kcal, will I also want to make sure I'm consuming more of my total Kcals from protein in the bulking phase?

I aimed for a surplus of 200-300 cals during my bulk. After 6 weeks reassess. Protein and fat mins remain the same as during cut... min 0.8-1g Protein per lb and 0.4-.45g fat per lb. However u will find u take in more due to the extra cals available. The biggest thing for me was being able to consume more carbs due to having the extra cals. Was nice to be able to eat carbs without worrying about missing my other macro targets.

As for the lower stomach fat i'm like you and retain the last of my fat there. Just gotta keep plugging away man. I got down to approx 15% bf last time and wish I had pushed and got the extra 3% off before bulking. During my current cut I will continue until I hit 12% - then bulk and cut between 12%-15% and back down 15%-12%. Dont want to let it get up to 20-22% again. It sucks

[LeadingMan]

I aimed for a surplus of 200-300 cals during my bulk. After 6 weeks reassess. Protein and fat mins remain the same as during cut... min 0.8-1g Protein per lb and 0.4-.45g fat per lb. However u will find u take in more due to the extra cals available. The biggest thing for me was being able to consume more carbs due to having the extra cals. Was nice to be able to eat carbs without worrying about missing my other macro targets.

As for the lower stomach fat i'm like you and retain the last of my fat there. Just gotta keep plugging away man. I got down to approx 15% bf last time and wish I had pushed and got the extra 3% off before bulking. During my current cut I will continue until I hit 12% - then bulk and cut between 12%-15% and back down 15%-12%. Dont want to let it get up to 20-22% again. It sucks

Ok good advice here again. I'm around 20% too I think, at least according to my home scales and the BodiTrax ones at my gym. How do you measure yours?

I'll try to get to 15% as that would be great progress for me but I just don't want to look too gaunt / thin? I just wanna shift this belly fat! I actually have a friend that does that fat freezing stuff for a living, he's offered me a good price, I'm tempted.

So around 200-300 more kcal total during a bulk. Ok. So If my TDEE now is around 2000ish and I'm cutting at 1700-1800. A bulk would be around 2200-2300? I keep the protein and fat miniums that I have now, do I aim to get as many of these extra 200-300 kcals from additional protein as I can?

[ItsTiME35]

Ok good advice here again. I'm around 20% too I think, at least according to my home scales and the BodiTrax ones at my gym. How do you measure yours?

I'll try to get to 15% as that would be great progress for me but I just don't want to look too gaunt / thin? I just wanna shift this belly fat! I actually have a friend that does that fat freezing stuff for a living, he's offered me a good price, I'm tempted.

So around 200-300 more kcal total during a bulk. Ok. So If my TDEE now is around 2000ish and I'm cutting at 1700-1800. A bulk would be around 2200-2300? I keep the protein and fat miniums that I have now, do I aim to get as many of these extra 200-300 kcals from additional protein as I can?

I use this calculator to workout a rough BF%. Put in height, weight, measurement round neck and waist measurment at naval. I use cm (metric) rather than inches as it seems more accurate. So for me im 175cm tall, 164lb (74kg), neck 37cm and waist at naval 86cm so it puts me at around 18% bf.

http://fitness.bizcalcs.com/Calculat...=Body-Fat-Navy

I wouldnt bother with fat freezing for me... sounds a bit like bro science - I dont trust short cuts.

As for the bulk yeah aim for 2200-2300 and reassess after 6 weeks. For the extra cals I would go for a mix of all three. Carbs are nice to have on a bulk given they are first thing to be reduced during a cut

[aakkt]

This is a pretty backwards way to interpret the article, it doesn't really sound like you understood it. If i were you, i'd read it again, and focus on the fact that "clean" has absolutely no universally agreed upon meaning.

Cookies are not "unclean" or "dirty" in some way.

IMO the article is pretty pointless and superficial. I think most people understand clean eating to mean eating in healthy ways, i.e. not consuming all carbs as sugars, not consuming all fats as sat fats, having a solid macro ratio etc. Just because "clean" doesn't have a solid definition doesn't mean it's wrong to use the word, especially in a casual sense like it always is.
To me the article is saying 'you shouldn't use the phrase "it was a joke" because what exactly is a joke?'
Sure, if you asked his macro ratios and how he's getting his macros and he responded "don't worry I eat clean" then you could say it's meaningless in that context but when it's a passing comment that he eats clean it doesn't really matter