Obama going to Hiroshima

[Corbi]

He went there on Memorial Day weekend and paid homage to their dead.

This^^^ His timing was atrocious and he should have been anywhere in the States paying respects to our fallen military members vs being in Japan having a hugfest.

[KeepItMoving]

Maybe while he is there, obama could visit the Phillipines in honor of our brave service members who fought and died there in WWII, Maybe he could recall the brutality of the Japanese in taking those islands and forcing the Bataan death march. Maybe he could stand up for the great history of this country instead of shaming us as racist, bigoted, divided, and too rich.

Face it. This guy hates this country which is why he has worked so hard to fundamentally change it. And he has achieved this. His policies are strongly in force by appointments, executive orders, and administrative agencies being used to carry out ideology. See before you a weaker America.

[Corbi]

Maybe while he is there, obama could visit the Phillipines in honor of our brave service members who fought and died there in WWII, Maybe he could recall the brutality of the Japanese in taking those islands and forcing the Bataan death march. Maybe he could stand up for the great history of this country instead of shaming us as racist, bigoted, divided, and too rich.

Face it. This guy hates this country which is why he has worked so hard to fundamentally change it. And he has achieved this. His policies are strongly in force by appointments, executive orders, and administrative agencies being used to carry out ideology. See before you a weaker America.

100% in agreement with everything you wrote.

[KeepItMoving]

100% in agreement with everything you wrote.

obama's disdain for this country is patent. I know. Preaching to the choir. I wonder how many here even know who Frank Marshall Davis is?

[Brackneyc]

obama's disdain for this country is patent. I know. Preaching to the choir. I wonder how many here even know who Frank Marshall Davis is?

Dear old dad maybe.

[JebFan]

He is going to apologize and intentionally embarrass our country and especially those who died in Pearl Harbor and WWII.

Sorry, but no other way to put it.

You're a dumb ass

[JebFan]

This^^^ His timing was atrocious and he should have been anywhere in the States paying respects to our fallen military members vs being in Japan having a hugfest.

You're a dumb ass too

[ElrondHubbard]

At the risk of taking the middle ground here (pissing off both sides ).....I do believe that what he did can be construed as an apology of sorts (again, without using the actual word). But I also thought what he did (going there and the speech that he gave) was a good thing, in general. That is, as an isolated event. Unfortunately (imo), he's done this so many times as our POTUS, that it becomes a detraction.

Lastly, I couldn't agree more (with others here) that the "timing" of this visit was in poor taste. And this is what made it stand out the most for those pissed off about it.

Of course, anything can be construed as "an apology of sorts", if you choose to interpret any non-hostile statement that way. That's the beautiful thing about blind irrational hatred: you get to condemn somebody for the same perceived offense no matter what it is they actually did. Heads you win, tails they lose. It gives people a wonderful freedom from reality.

As for the timing, nobody in the first couple of pages of this thread, who were bitching in advance about the upcoming so-called apology made the connection to Memorial Day at the time. That goal post didn't get moved into position until they were called out on their refusal to acknowledge the fact that they were wrong the first time, as I predicted they would. Never let the facts get in the way of a good hate-fest.

Also, as it doesn't take a genius to point out, Obama's visit to Hiroshima was on Friday, not Memorial Day. If you're going to grouse about Obama not following a Memorial Day tradition, I should point out that Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy and Richard M. Nixon never visited Arlington National Cemetery for a Memorial Day ceremony. Obama has done so regularly.

Now, about that apology. For you who keep saying that you think his remarks were an apology anyway, did you even read them? I seriously doubt someone who hates Obama as much as you seem to would be following his words. Or are you just parroting Ann Coulter?

I keep asking for specifics about this apology thing, but so far I haven't seen anything that qualifies. And no, admitting that the U.S. has not always been perfect is not an apology. It's an admission of reality. If you want to deny that, then you're more disconnected from reality than even the worst president.

[ElrondHubbard]

Context is a double-edged sword. Just because sometimes people see racism where it doesn't exist does not mean it never exists. There's still plenty of it around.

And as far as predicting people's future actions and inner feelings from perceived past behaviors, we can all play at that game. Therefore, I can make a prediction of my own.

I predict that when Obama doesn't apologize, many of those who confidently predicted he would and pre-emptively condemned him for that will not admit that they were wrong. They won't acknowledge being wrong about the prediction, nor will they admit being wrong about Obama himself. They will continue to predict and condemn for the same actions that they expected him to perform, even when he didn't. They will eventually distort their memories to believe that he did apologize, and then they will condemn him for that imagined apology.

For these people, facts are not important. Staying consistent with the ideology of the echo chamber is what is the number one priority. They carry filters with them that carefully screen out and reject any facts that do not conform to their worldview, and allow only impressions which tend to confirm it. Because of this, there is nothing Obama could ever do or say that would change their minds. They will continue to hate him because he is a symbol of something they need to hate -- regardless of what that something is, the symbol remains tangible and convenient, and it's not going to change.

If I turn out to be wrong about that, I'll apologise.

That's from two weeks ago. Looks like some folks here are pretty easy to figure out.

[so-tex]

That's from two weeks ago. Looks like some folks here are pretty easy to figure out.

Yes, you are pretty easy to figure out..
The pos basically apologized.
How many Japanese leaders have apologized for their attack on Pearl Harbor, The Bataan Death March, the inhumane treatment our pow's endured and the countless other atrocities those bastards committed.
A real POTUS would be HERE honoring our own.
You can go to hell with your liberal BS.
Have a good evening...
I'm out.

[dbx]

Of course, anything can be construed as "an apology of sorts", if you choose to interpret any non-hostile statement that way. That's the beautiful thing about blind irrational hatred: you get to condemn somebody for the same perceived offense no matter what it is they actually did.

And it is, in this case, by many of us. We are obviously (you and I) from different schools of thought, so to speak. I don't condemn you for your "take" on things, as you're articulation in discussions deserve respect (imo), despite our great divide in opinion. You're logical and polite (imo), but we will obviously, just have to agree to disagree on many issues concerning politics. I have ruined a couple of personal relationships over some nasty political conversations. I am trying to make a point to never let that happen again......on-line....or in person. It's not worth it.

I have to go take my estrogen pill now..........

[KeepItMoving]

Yes, you are pretty easy to figure out..
The pos basically apologized.
How many Japanese leaders have apologized for their attack on Pearl Harbor, The Bataan Death March, the inhumane treatment our pow's endured and the countless other atrocities those bastards committed.
A real POTUS would be HERE honoring our own.
You can go to hell with your liberal BS.
Have a good evening...
I'm out.

Thank you for posting. Have a blessed Memorial Day

[retiredrunner]

I keep asking for specifics about this apology thing, but so far I haven't seen anything that qualifies. And no, admitting that the U.S. has not always been perfect is not an apology. It's an admission of reality. If you want to deny that, then you're more disconnected from reality than even the worst president.

Oh, those poor, poor Japanese. Were it not for the completely-plausible possibility the Imperial Japanese military would fight tooth and nail to the death in order to avoid the shame of surrender and doom millions more, perhaps the evil unleashed by the bombs could have been avoided. Gosh.

This was probably just Obama's way of nudging Abe into a visit to Nanjing, with maybe a formal apology and brief recitation of the unspeakable savagery committed there. Yeah, that's it.

[ElrondHubbard]

And it is, in this case, by many of us. We are obviously (you and I) from different schools of thought, so to speak. I don't condemn you for your "take" on things, as you're articulation in discussions deserve respect (imo), despite our great divide in opinion. You're logical and polite (imo), but we will obviously, just have to agree to disagree on many issues concerning politics. I have ruined a couple of personal relationships over some nasty political conversations. I am trying to make a point to never let that happen again......on-line....or in person. It's not worth it.

I have to go take my estrogen pill now..........

I don't mind disagreement. Hell, I understand I'm wrong more than I'm right -- after all, I AM married.

I just prefer that disagreements be based on substance, and I respect your posts here because that's the kind of thing you usually DO post. But projection and hatred based on prejudice -- and yes, even if it's not racial, there are other kinds, and it's what most of this "I know Obummer wants to apologize, therefore he did" crap is based on -- does push my buttons.

We supposedly live in a democracy. We pick our leaders. Our leaders cannot be better than the people that pick them. They aren't likely to be worse, either. We complain about the corrupt idiots running the show, and then essentially deny the fact that we're the ones who put them there. They are the symptom, not the problem. And threads like this illustrate the problem in microcosm. A democracy can only succeed if the voting decisions are made by adults, not children. And the hateful bitching and complaining and projection about what Obama supposedly "wants" to do, or will "probably" do, and then the denial of reality that's independent of what he actually does do, is simply childish. And that's the kind of thinking that gets crooks sent to Washington.

[ElrondHubbard]

Oh, those poor, poor Japanese. Were it not for the completely-plausible possibility the Imperial Japanese military would fight tooth and nail to the death in order to avoid the shame of surrender and doom millions more, perhaps the evil unleashed by the bombs could have been avoided. Gosh.

This was probably just Obama's way of nudging Abe into a visit to Nanjing, with maybe a formal apology and brief recitation of the unspeakable savagery committed there. Yeah, that's it.

News Flash. The vast majority of people killed in wars, on either side, are not the ones who are responsible for them. Even the fighting soldiers are more often than not conscripts, and those who volunteer do so usually out of patriotism, however misplaced it may be.


Those who die in war are honorable people, and deserve to be honored and remembered with honor. It's the leadership that plots, plans, begins, and conducts the war, and any evil intent needs to be attributed to those leaders, not the rank and file.

The war is over, dude. We won. We can afford to be gracious, and it's in our best interest, and the interest of the rest of the world that we be so. Stop fighting the war, go find some other good fight that you can conduct with honor. There's no honor in kicking a defeated enemy who has become a friend.

Or, if you want to keep living in the past, you can emulate this guy. But even Hiroo Onoda eventually realized that the war had ended.

[retiredrunner]

Or, if you want to keep living in the past, you can emulate this guy. But even Hiroo Onoda eventually realized that the war had ended.

Oh, the Japanese have no qualms about leaving the past in the past - hence why they've been incredibly resistant to offering even mere acknowledgments of the horrific war crimes perpetrated by their Imperial predecessors, which easily match the worst the Nazis ever did.

Their leaders openly pay homage to those enshrined at Yasukuni, while our leader goes and essentially turns his back on the millions of Americans who fought to prevent Asia becoming a Japanese hegemonic meat grinder. Well done.

[so-tex]

Oh, the Japanese have no qualms about leaving the past in the past - hence why they've been incredibly resistant to offering even mere acknowledgments of the horrific war crimes perpetrated by their Imperial predecessors, which easily match the worst the Nazis ever did.

Their leaders openly pay homage to those enshrined at Yasukuni, while our leader goes and essentially turns his back on the millions of Americans who fought to prevent Asia becoming a Japanese hegemonic meat grinder. Well done.

Some people just don't fuking get it...

[ElrondHubbard]

WTF is up with that? You have something against the Marines, other than being a libtard.

Are you the entire Marine Corps?

Plenty of Marines who have fought bravely have also payed homage to the bravery of their adversaries, living and dead, after the war had ended.

[ElrondHubbard]

Oh, the Japanese have no qualms about leaving the past in the past - hence why they've been incredibly resistant to offering even mere acknowledgments of the horrific war crimes perpetrated by their Imperial predecessors, which easily match the worst the Nazis ever did.

Their leaders openly pay homage to those enshrined at Yasukuni, while our leader goes and essentially turns his back on the millions of Americans who fought to prevent Asia becoming a Japanese hegemonic meat grinder. Well done.

So are you saying that soldiers who fought for the Confederacy should not be honored by leaders of this country? Should Confederate cemeteries be desecrated? That's the equivalent of what you seem to be suggesting.

And how often are the Japanese supposed to apologize? They have done so, on numerous occasions. Your claim that they haven't is simply false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan

Your statement about Obama "turning his back" on WWII veterans is hyperbole at best, but as I said earlier, and as you have done nothing to contradict, anything Obama could possibly do would be interpreted the same way by you, because that's the opinion you've decided to have, reality be damned.

[dbx]

WTF is up with that? You have something against the Marines, other than being a libtard.

My father was a Marine (and actually did 4yrs in the Navy, after), my uncle was a 2nd LT in the Marines....and his son, my cousin, attained Col. rank in the Marines and was Commander at Okinawa base for 4yrs (Daniel Fenell)

Thank you for your service, sir.

[Brackneyc]

So are you saying that soldiers who fought for the Confederacy should not be honored by leaders of this country? Should Confederate cemeteries be desecrated? That's the equivalent of what you seem to be suggesting.

And how often are the Japanese supposed to apologize? They have done so, on numerous occasions. Your claim that they haven't is simply false.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan

Your statement about Obama "turning his back" on WWII veterans is hyperbole at best, but as I said earlier, and as you have done nothing to contradict, anything Obama could possibly do would be interpreted the same way by you, because that's the opinion you've decided to have, reality be damned.

Ive never seen the north or south formally honored by the other, nor by a sitting president.

[ElrondHubbard]

Ive never seen the north or south formally honored by the other, nor by a sitting president.

William Howard Taft and Woodrow Wilson did.

[dbx]

William Howard Taft and Woodrow Wilson did.

Two of the worst presidents on the "1-10" scale

[Brackneyc]

William Howard Taft and Woodrow Wilson did.

I'm not old enough to remember that. Anything more recent.

[Corbi]

Are you the entire Marine Corps?

Plenty of Marines who have fought bravely have also payed homage to the bravery of their adversaries, living and dead, after the war had ended.

Gotta say that seems like a rather dickish comment to make. He never said he spoke for every single Marine but that doesn't lessen his opinion. You dismissed his opinion as worthless.

[Brackneyc]

Plenty of Marines who have fought bravely have also payed homage to the bravery of their adversaries, living and dead, after the war had ended.

I've never heard anyone who was in the military reference their "adversaries" in this manner.

Maybe others have.

[7Seconds]

I'm not old enough to remember that. Anything more recent.

Today, when Obama honored the fallen soldiers at Arlington cemetery which includes a couple hundred gravesites of Confederate soldiers.

[Corbi]

I've never heard anyone who was in the military reference their "adversaries" in this manner.

Maybe others have.

I'm sure it has been done in a movie or 2? Rambo? Perhaps one of 23 Vietnam war movies Chuck Norris made?

[so-tex]

I've never heard anyone who was in the military reference their "adversaries" in this manner.

Maybe others have.

My dad, son in law, uncles, cousins and friends from WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq.
I know damn good and NONE of them did.
Where the fuk is eomrat when you need him?
I'm gonna give him a call right now.

[Corbi]

I've never heard anyone who was in the military reference their "adversaries" in this manner.

Maybe others have.

End of the Warriors, thats where I saw it
[youtube]K6oKfADOKa0[/youyube]