Your Real Protein Needs - Videos with Eric Helms

[Mrpb]

Eric Helms has been putting out a lot of quality content on Youtube. Here are some examples:

Protein needs during bulking and cutting

"Here is the summary:

Eric recommends getting 0.8-1.3g of protein per pound of bodyweight (1.8-2.9g per kilogram). This is the general range.
When maintaining or gaining, he usually has his clients on the lower side of the range: 0.8-1g of protein per pound of bodyweight or 1.8-2.2g per kilogram.
When cutting, a higher protein intake helps with satiety and may also help with muscle maintenance so he recommends 1-1.3g of protein per pound of bodyweight or 2.2-2.9g per kilogram. What’s important to note here is the protein intake is scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness. The higher the body fat percentage, the lower the protein intake can usually be compared to the total body weight.
There is no point in arguing about a difference of 0.2-0.3 grams as long as you’re in the recommended range. If you like to eat more protein, do that. If you prefer less, do that instead.
The protein intake needed to build and maintain muscle is not as high as most people think."



On bulking and surplus

Can you gain muscle during a calorie deficit? Should you bulk? If so, how much weight should you gain during bulking?



6 Part Series on Nutrition

All topics considering nutrition; calories, macros, micros, timing etc.



6 Part Series on Training For Strength And Muscle

All topics considering training; volume, intensity, exercises, reps, etc.

[gbullock32]

Always good to have more info and sources to go on when making recommendations, thanks for the share.

[IK9]

My case & point exactly.. I've told people time & time again.. you're dieting so raise your animal protein intake higher for satiety sake.. you will overall eat less fats/carbs.. I'm even speaking from personal experience that higher protein when dieting = most likely to stick with your diet

Yet 98% of the people on these boards scream at me saying YOU ONLY NEEED 0.8g per KG

Yes... we get that.. but see how long you stick to your diet when you're only need 150g of protein

i.e.: you eat a fat ass steak & 2-4 scoops of whey & say.. I've hit my protein.. lemme eat carbs/fats for the rest of my carbs & end up overeating that chit

Same goes for why they recommend having salad/soup before you eat.. there is a reason why it works

[gbullock32]

Same goes for why they recommend having salad/soup before you eat.. there is a reason why it works

Not for everyone, once again, dressings can be very calorie dense. In fact a McDonalds salad (most of them anyways) have more calories than a hamburger.

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/...nu/salads.html
http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/...andwiches.html

[IK9]

Not for everyone, once again, dressings can be very calorie dense. In fact a McDonalds salad (most of them anyways) have more calories than a hamburger.

http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/...nu/salads.html
http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/food/...andwiches.html

Order dressing on the side & dip/dab onto your salad.. be very hard to over consume light italian dressing

[Mrpb]

Yet 98% of the people on these boards scream at me saying YOU ONLY NEEED 0.8g per KG

To be honest, that's pretty much correct; most only NEED 0.8 gram per lb. More can help for satiety and psychological reasons. I think that's pretty well known around here.

The Helms numbers of 2.3 to 3.1 gram per kg of FFM have been mentioned many times. (scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness)

[gbullock32]

Order dressing on the side & dip/dab onto your salad.. be very hard to over consume light italian dressing

How many people do you know who do that opposed to those who think the fact that it is a salad and therefore 'healthy', so they load on the dressing.

It goes to your other posts criticizing my sticky; those who do not track calories simply go by what is 'healthy' are not informed in most instances, and will easily add more to a salad thus negating the point you make- that it is a low calorie pre-meal filler, which keeps you from over consuming during the main course.

[wlodarczykn]

Quality content, worth the time, thanks for sharing!!

[Skwaats]

Not for everyone, once again, dressings can be very calorie dense. In fact a McDonalds salad (most of them anyways) have more calories than a hamburger.

You love to play straw man in every thread. I am new to the site but I have seen the advice you give and it is either straw man or very generic. It comes off as condescending and rude.


In regards to the protein needs..

Protein needs are sufficient at 1g/lb of LBM... HOWEVER, this also means the quality of your protein source and the timing of your dosing (if maximal MPS is the goal) becomes more relevant. If you are hitting the threshhold of .3-.4g/kg of BW in protein ever 3-5 hours with adequate leucine then the low end of the spectrum is just fine. But if you eat vegan cookies and rice and hit your protein through those means you WILL need more total daily protein to receive sufficient EAA.

Eat protein at least 3 times a day. Eat your animal sources of protein (unless you are vegan for moral reasons). Don't be afraid to overshoot protein intake a smidge because more than the minimum amount for maximal gains is currently being proven to show no signs of being detrimental (more satiety, better fat loss, higher TEF, higher NEAT, etc)

[IK9]

How many people do you know who do that opposed to those who think the fact that it is a salad and therefore 'healthy', so they load on the dressing.

It goes to your other posts criticizing my sticky; those who do not track calories simply go by what is 'healthy' are not informed in most instances, and will easily add more to a salad thus negating the point you make- that it is a low calorie pre-meal filler, which keeps you from over consuming during the main course.

You love to play straw man in every thread. I am new to the site but I have seen the advice you give and it is either straw man or very generic. It comes off as condescending and rude.


In regards to the protein needs..

Protein needs are sufficient at 1g/lb of LBM... HOWEVER, this also means the quality of your protein source and the timing of your dosing (if maximal MPS is the goal) becomes more relevant. If you are hitting the threshhold of .3-.4g/kg of BW in protein ever 3-5 hours with adequate leucine then the low end of the spectrum is just fine. But if you eat vegan cookies and rice and hit your protein through those means you WILL need more total daily protein to receive sufficient EAA.

Eat protein at least 3 times a day. Eat your animal sources of protein (unless you are vegan for moral reasons). Don't be afraid to overshoot protein intake a smidge because more than the minimum amount for maximal gains is currently being proven to show no signs of being detrimental (more satiety, better fat loss, higher TEF, higher NEAT, etc)

Exactly. I'm not too sure why you are trying to verbally fight people on the internet.

Anyone can twist anything someone says.. quite frankly, if people are THAT stupid that they think they can eat a chit ton of salad & pour loads of dressing on their salad & still lose weight then they deserve to be fat/obese/whatever

But for the sake of argument, all I was implying is.. "common sense & moderation" will go a long way as I'm sure, you are a big advocate

[Freiord]

Thanks for sharing bro.

[IK9]

Just want to point out that you say 98% of people scream at you that you only need .8g per kg, but that's actually not happening. 98% of people are not telling you that. In fact I don't see that being stated very often at all. What I do see quite often is you running around the Fat Loss section giving pretty bad advice. Kind of like the guy from yesterday you recommended should raise his calories to 5000 in order to lose weight.

As for 150g of protein, who are you to say how much protein will satiate someone? 2-4 scoops of Whey per day? Is that how much you use a day? Because I'll tell you that I'm perfectly fine with 150g of protein while you may not be. Want to know what the difference is? I haven't purchased protein powders in maybe 3 years.

I see a lot of strawman in your post. If you're going to take things from one section and misrepresent them in another section then expect to get called out on it.

I'm talking about the people that just copy paste stickies to everyone that asks a question

The "5000" was just an arbitrary number.. it is much better than the 1600 that people that have a lot of fat to lose have stated they are starting with. 5000 gives them room to take away from vs 1600 already being pretty low for someone who weighs a ton

[gbullock32]

I'm talking about the people that just copy paste stickies to everyone that asks a question

Weird how it answers the questions and provides sources to the information too.... while you speak mostly from anecdotal evidence and opinion.

[boo99]

Thanks Mrpb, once again, for posting this !

[Jasonk282]

I'm talking about the people that just copy paste stickies to everyone that asks a question

The "5000" was just an arbitrary number.. it is much better than the 1600 that people that have a lot of fat to lose have stated they are starting with. 5000 gives them room to take away from vs 1600 already being pretty low for someone who weighs a ton

I eat less than 1600 cals a day and under 100g of protein most of the time. Lift 5 days a week, weight has remained constant and strength has actually gone up...

[IK9]

What people post a sticky that says they only need .8g per kg?
What does that have to do with the statement you made about 2-4 scoops of Whey per day? Are they directing people to a sticky that says to do that?

What's wrong with the stickys? Is it that they are generic? Things are pretty generic and we need to make some slight adjustments to fit our preference, lifestyle, training, etc. If someone new is directed to go read the stickys then so what? Go read it. If you have questions then come back and ask 100 questions if you want. But don't complain that it's too much to read and instead as 300 questions just because you want stuff spoon fed to you. Very often I will get a message asking a bunch of questions and I will send back a document or a few links that aren't overly complicated but might take 10, 20 or 30 minutes to read. The reason I do that is to see if the person will bother to read it. You don't need to understand it right away but at least show some effort.

You made the argument about a ton of salad dressing, a bunch of protein powder, eating a "chit" ton of carbs, those are all ways to try to strengthen your argument, it won't work. Pull up those posts where people are suggesting that if you'd like.


The 5000 number was arbitrary? That makes 0 sense. Now you are saying it's better than 1600 but who was talking about 1600?? The OP said nothing about that and the people recommending things made no mention of it. You are the first to say 1600, right now, in an attempt to strengthen a weak argument. Do you need me to link you to the thread? Because you very well know the person was talking about 2100+ calories.

This guy states:

I weighed in this morning at 281.6 lbs, but that represents a huge amount of water weight. My goal is to get below 250 lbs by Christmas, then take another two weeks off before starting another log.

I'll be starting the Kris Gethin 12-week daily trainer again, because it did a great job of putting on muscle.

Nutrition will be the same macros as previous:

Mon-Fri
1600 cal/day
180g Protein
55g Fat
98g Carbs

He weighs 280 lbs.. & is starting at 1600 calories.........

[Zmeister]

Good thread Opie nice and informative like usual...

[themonkay]

I eat less than 1600 cals a day and under 100g of protein most of the time. Lift 5 days a week, weight has remained constant and strength has actually gone up...

[IK9]

[img]http://media.makeameme.org/created/Shes-a-witch.jpg

Trolololol

[Jasonk282]

Trolololol

srts. yesterdays numbers were...

1160 cals
87p
42c
75f

I had 1 cup of peanuts, 8oz of pot roast, 2oz rost beef, 1 slice of cheese and 1 hamburger bun

[IK9]

Since you have an issue with quoting accurate information and not pulling things out of thin air, I will refreshen your memory. As you can see those numbers you just typed have absolutely nothing with the thread you are being questioned on about the 5000 calorie recommendation.


The OP, which actually contradicts everything you said people say:



Your recommendation:



You were then called out several times but you failed to return. If you'd like to continue this them go back to the Fat Loss section but to make random arguments to contradict things no one ever said is ridiculous. Don't do that in this section, the other section has plenty of room for nonsense that we see all day. If you would like, you can delete all your posts in this thread where you made stuff up and I will delete all of my posts so we can declutter what should be a solid thread as the OP usually makes.

Did not see the thread again until you just re-posted it here now

Estimating Requirements
The simplest method uses a standard 'calories per unit weight (usually kgs)'. They calculate a TOTAL CAL REQUIREMENT (TEE). That means you DO NOT need to x by an ACTIVITY FACTOR. They are:
- 26 to 30 kcals/kg/day for normal, healthy individuals with sedentary lifestyles doing little physical activity [12.0-14 kcal/pound]
- 31 to 37 kcal/kg/day for those involved in light to moderate activity 3-5 x a week with moderately active lifestyles [14-16 kcal/ pound]

I persoanlly multiply by 16 which is why I just quickly estimated 250 x 16 = 4-5K calories..

Like I said.. it's an arbitrary number I quickly threw out.. & it would be a much better starting point than 2100 calories

I figure if they are committed to losing weight.. they would be in the gym 3-5 times a week..

So what's the problem? Why so much hate?

[Jasonk282]

I persoanlly multiply by 16 which is why I just quickly estimated 250 x 16 = 4-5K calories..

it actually equals an exact 4000 cals... you'd be having him eat upwards to 1000 cals MORE to lose weight...

[IK9]

Once again your argument is flawed.

A random number like 5000 calories to cut is not better than the 2100 he wanted in order to lose weight. You'll be hard pressed to find people needing 5000 calories to lose weight. It's actually ridiculous. Your recommendation is just so random.

It's not hate on you personally, just the terrible advice you give out consistently.

You start at 5000 for a week.. don't lose weight? Drop to 4800.. do it for a week.. still don't lose weight.. keep dropping.. say you hit 4K.. oh chit.. I've lost weight this week.. keep it at 4K.. next week still losing weight at 4K.. much better than starting at 2100

Dieting on higher calories is better than dieting on lower calories

If the poster has been fat/obese for a long period of time.. another few weeks to figure out how high of calories they can diet on should not even be an issue.

I don't see how this is terrible advice. It's systematic, works by changing a single variable, & eliminates guessing......

[IK9]

it actually equals an exact 4000 cals... you'd be having him eat upwards to 1000 cals MORE to lose weight...

I just guessed at the number... I did not compute the numbers

[IK9]

I'm not going to even bother addressing that post.

Do you want to delete your posts, I'll delete mine addressing you and this good thread will declutter.

We've spent the last hour and 45 minutes arguing.. I'm done with it. Will just ignore all posts from you & anything you want to say about my character, or whatever I post is fine by me. All the best.

[Skwaats]

Imagine an internet where someone didn't attempt to establish a superiority over another individual.
Let's just encourage one another to make gains and have some fun in the process.

And for the record, I do agree with IK9 that starting your cutting calories as HIGH as possible to begin makes the most logical sense for long term progression. His argument is valid.

[dipatel13]

And for the record, I do agree with IK9 that starting your cutting calories as HIGH as possible to begin makes the most logical sense for long term progression. His argument is valid.

No one is against cutting on the highest calories possible, but a normal person would not be cutting on 4000-5000 calories. They would be bulking on that amount.

[IK9]

No one is against cutting on the highest calories possible, but a normal person would not be cutting on 4000-5000 calories. They would be bulking on that amount.

It's an exaggeration.. the same way that someone that tells me they are cutting on 800 calories actually makes me believe they are consuming a lot more than that

[TypeNirvash]

No one is against cutting on the highest calories possible, but a normal person would not be cutting on 4000-5000 calories. They would be bulking on that amount.

I cut on 4,000 calories once. It was a glorious month.

And then I had to drop to 3,500.

[desslok]

Post of the week, thanks for sharing MrPB!