caloric intake

[playmaker]

Hello i'm new to the forum. I weigh 118 and I am 5'7, i was 127 but i lost 9 pounds after 7 weeks of hard training and dieting no cheat meals. I didnt need to lose weight i just wanted to see 6-packs. The point is that i can see muscle definition but not the one i imagined. I was wondering if i 'm eating enough, i m afraid i dont want to lose muscle. I've been working out for about 2.5 years (hardcore). I reduced my bodyweight but i havent lost my strenght i can lift more weight!! I'm worried because sometimes i feel very tired especially after my workout

I used this formula bodyweight(lb) x 10 = caloric intake
My RMR is 1105 according to dr hussman's RMR calculator
Right now i m eating about 1300-1400 cals. I have 5 meals, about 130-140gr of protein 110-120gr carbs and 10-20 gr fat


Breakfast(after cardio)
9:00 oatmeal, 4 eggs white, skimmed milk
10:00- workout
11:30-12:00 postwork protein/sugars shake
2:00 chicken breast or tuna somtimes salmon with veggies, cottage cheese low fat yogurt sometimes rice
6:00 chicken breast or tuna or eggs with veggies and cottage cheese
8:00 protein shake or chicken or tuna orr eggs with veggies and cottage cheese



Monday
Cardio: 30 min running, 30 min hiking
Chest-triceps (1-1.5 h)

Tuesday
Cardio:30 min running, 40 min hiking
legs/cavles (1-1.5 h)

Wednesday
Cardio: 60 walking
Back/biceps (1-1.5 h)

Thursday
Cardio: 20 min running, 40 min hiking
Shoulders/abs (1-1.5 h)

Friday
Cardio: 60 min hiking
Legs/cavles (again) (1-1.5 h)

Saturday:cardio: 60 min hiking
Sunday: cardio: 60 min hiking

I challenge myself and i lift heavy 5-6 reps sometimes less
For example bench press - 1 rep max:147pounds

Any advice?

[imperfectly_lou]

I dont like that X 10 formula.... When Emma sees this, I am sure she will post the more accurate formula. We have similar stats and my BMR is about 1334...... you then need to multiply that by an activity factor. Based on your activity, you probably need 2,000 plus cals a day to maintain your weight.

To build muscle, you generally need to eat more cals than what you burn off. That means either eating more or reducing your cardio. Your diet looks good and clean, you just need more of it...

I used to eat about 1,300 cals a day and wondered why I was never gaining any muscle. As soon as I went up to 1,800, within a week, wow! I couldn't stop flexing my biceps in the mirror hehe! Not only that, but my pants were much looser..... and this was with MORE cals than I have eaten in a long time.

It is scary to increase cals, so do it slowly..... Perhaps have your BF% checked and focus on that rather than the scale.... Your weight is quite low for your height so I am sure an extra 10lbs of muscle would look great!

[playmaker]

My BF% is 14% i eat just to eat i dont feel hungry anymore i ll try 1800 cals for a week thanks for the advice

[Emma-Leigh]

Hey, welcome to the boards! I hope you find the site as addictive as I have!

Arggg.. where to start

There are a few things that you are doing that about 99% of females do -
1. Eating too little
2. Over-training

Lou is right about your calories. The 10 x wgt formula is not at all accurate for calculating your needs. Here are the formulas she was talking about (I should really put this somewhere! ). It involves a two step process where you first calculate your basal metabolic rate (1100 sounds too low....) and then add on what you need to eat to cover your activities.

For your BMR you can calculate it one of two ways, I usually do both and take an average as the first formula is based on height, weight and age, while the second takes into consideration fat mass. Both age and fat-free mass have an effect on BMR so they both have their place in calculations.

The HB equation is = 655.0955 + (9.463 x weight in Kg) + (1.8496 x height in cm) - (4.6756 x Age)

The Fat free mass formula = 1.3 x Fat free weight (kg) x 24

So, if you convert your figures, you are 53.6kg and 170.5cm tall, and your Fat Free Mass is 46.096kg... I can't calculate on the first equation (no age) but, based on the second, your basal rate is 1438.

But... that is not the end... you then have to factor in your daily activity level! To do this you have to times the value you got above (1438) by your 'activity factor'. These are the rough guides –
- Little activity (that is - bed-ridden) = 1.2
- Light activity (Such as office work) = 1.4
- Moderate activity (student, training 3 x a week) = 1.5 to 1.6
- High activity (training 5 x week, athlete, laborer) = 1.7 to 1.9
- Very High Activity (heavy manual labor) = 2.0 to 2.1

With the amount of activity you are doing, I would put you at 1.7. This means your intake should be closer to 2400 calories!

These formula are also not perfect, but they give you a ball park figure and what it is basically telling you that at the moment is that you are definately not eating enough!! At the moment you are not even eating enough to cover your basal metabolic needs. See. when your intake drops below your basal metabolic rate your hypothalamus (the 'control centre' of your bodies basic functions) sets in process a series of reactions that put your body into 'survival mode'. It thinks that your body is facing a 'famine' and does everything to try to conserve your bodies energy stores. So your metabolic rate slows, your reproductive cycle switches off and your whole body shuts down.

This is probably one of the reasons why you are feeling so tired after your workouts - You are working on empty and your body is trying to conserve energy!

So, up your intake. Start at 1800 and slowly push it up. I would aim for 2200 calories at first and then see how you go. Your diet looks sound and the ratios you are using at the moment seem ok. I would up the carbs to be equal with protein as you do a lot of cardio and you will need the energy. You also need to add more healthy fats - so add salmon, almonds, walnuts, seeds, avocado or olives to a few meals.

The other thing that is probably contributing to your lack of energy is that you are overtraining! You need rest periods - that means at least 1 day a week should be set aside for recovery. The days you do nothing are the days that your muscles repair themselves after and what you are doing at the moment is like trying to walk a mile by taking 2 steps forwards and one and a half step back! How do you expect your muscles to grow if you don't let them? And how do you expect to see your muscles if they can't grow?

So, give yourself a day where you do NOTHING. No cardio, no weights. A 'slow walk in the park' is fine, but nothing that is going to stress your body. I would also drop your cardio back a lot. You really have no need to do anything near what you are doing, but to start with try droping it back to three days of 60 minutes and 3 days of 30 minutes. All this cardio is going to be doing nothing to help you build your muscle definition because you will be using the amino acids to fuel your workouts rather than build tissue.

Now... One more thing... about that weight 118 pounds and 5'7 is on the 'boarderline' of healthy in terms of weight. It puts your BMI at 18.4. It really should be between 19 and 25. So this is probably another reason why you are feeling tired - your body has no fuel stores to draw on. It is probably also a reason why you are not seeing muscle definition. At 14% BF it is not going to be a case of 'you need to drop your BF%' to see muscle. If you are not seeing your abs at this % then there is only one of 2 reasons -
1. Your genetics - your body shape is such that you are never going to have that definition that you 'expect'
2. You don't have enough muscle

See - muscle weighs. It is a dense tissue and costs you on the scales. So, if you want to see muscle, you have to HAVE muscle. And if you want to HAVE muscle, you have to put up with weighing more.
So, what I would suggest is that you decide if you want those abs. If you do, you will have to consider adding a little more lean mass on that body of yours. Aim for a healther 125 to 130 pounds. Yeah, you just worked really hard to get that weight off, but if you put back muscle (and not fat) then you will notice the difference and will probably get that definition that you are aiming for.

If you have time, check out the main BB site and look through some of the articles on the fitness models. All these girls have AMAZING definition and they are all 135 pounds at heights of 5'5.

As lou said - Don't look at the scales.

[Lisa Wagner]

Emma,

Is it impossible to lose weight while on the pill. I am currently on a low dose pill called Cyclessa and I am less bloated than I was on the ortho tricyclen lo. As we discussed in previous conversations, I gained weight when I came off the pill and I was hoping that by going back on it, my weight would stabalize. I seem to be losing it in my waist but my weight is now shifting toward my lower body. How much cardio is it going to take for me to get my weight down. I am starting to think that my cardio sessions are not intense enough. I was ready your previous post and from your answer I don't think I am eating enough. I have read several times that you can gain weight if you don't eat enough. I have always used the x's 10 calculation for losing weight with would put me at 1500 calories. My current weight is 150 with 30% bf. I do cardio 5 -6 times a week for 30 minutes and sometimes 2 x's a day. I strenth train 4 times a week. My current diet is high protein, very low carb, high in vegetables and only essential fats like flax, primrose oil, cla and MCT's. can you help me calculate my calorie needs any maybe even put together a diet for me. I have to eat 5-6 times a day (light meals) because of my hypoglycemia.

Thanks
Lisa

[Emma-Leigh]

Hey, Sure! I can help to give you suggestions based on what I understand, but I am in no way an expert - and because you have other issues (thyroid disturbances, hypothalamic-gonadal shut-down and hypoglycaemia) make sure you check everything over with your doctor first. Also, these problems mean your situation will be ‘unique’ - what works for others, is probably going to be different for you. So, do everything slowly and carefully and stop if you start to see negative results.

First – it is not impossible to loose weight while on the pill. Although each person is individual (depending on their natural hormone levels), and the impact the pill has on a persons physiology is slightly different in each case, the basics of ‘energy in v’s energy out’ still apply – it is just a matter of finding the right balance. The pill you are on is what is known as a ‘triphasic’ pill – which means it has a combination of three levels of hormones that act to closely follow what would be normal in a cycle. It is a great choice because, due to this mimicry, it has very little side effects (so it will have the least effect terms of weight).

It is a good sign that the weight is coming off but I imagine the reason why the weight is not shifting from your lower body is because this is one of the areas of fat that is ‘hormone responsive’. This fat in the hips/butt/thigh area (and also the fat in your breasts and upper arms as well) is linked with oestrogen levels. So – because you now have more oestrogen in your body (with the pill), the weight is harder to shift from these areas. It is the same for most females (especially those with hormone irregularities) and it will eventually come off – it just takes longer.

In terms of your cardio – There is no rule that states ‘you have to do this much cardio to loose this much weight’. Once again, it all comes down to balance – in v’s out. What type of cardio are you doing at the moment? How intense is it? 5 to 6 days a week of ‘actual’ cardio is good. But for you I think it is more important to make sure you are active throughout the day as well – it will help maximize your metabolism and stabilize your blood sugar levels.

So try one session, in the mornings, of ‘actual’ cardio – 30 to 45 minutes, moderate intensity, 75% heart rate, so you work up a good sweat. But then, make sure you have 2 or 3 ‘mini sessions’ of 10 or 15 minutes of walking or moving, throughout the day. If there is no way that you can spread exercise over the day, adding 20-25 minutes of moderate walking in the evenings would be an alternative.

I would keep up your strength training. Make sure it is of sufficient intensity too. You should be working up a sweat when you train – aiming for reps of 10 to 12 per set, push yourself, up the weights etc etc.

About the food - In your situation, due to your thyroid disturbances, your basal metabolic rate is going to be lower than a ‘normal’ persons. This means the formulas that I use may calculate a level that will probably be too high for your needs. Low thyroid levels mean it is harder to get that ‘thermogenic effect’ that is sooo important in shifting unwanted fat, and it also means it is harder to add lean mass. Plus - it will also effect blood sugar, insulin sensitivity, stress hormone release and lots of other things which all present barriers to your weight loss and will effect how much, and what, you can eat.

Calculating your needs using the fat free formula I have, gives you a BMR of 1450. Adding on your level of activity means that you need to eat up around 2100 cals. But – as I said, your situation is unique. You have to find a balance between maximizing your metabolism while knowing that it is never going to be as fast as it should be – so you have to make sure that you don’t go and begin to eat too many calories. I suggest that you don’t eat anywhere near 2100 and, although I am not sure about what your exact needs will be, I think that they will probably be somewhere in the 1500 to 1800 range. If you want to try to add more calories then add them slowly (100 cals a week) and wait for a few weeks to see what happens. If you start to gain weight (and you have not altered anything else) you might just find that your thyroid is slower than you thought and you need to keep your cals low.

You might also want to try to have a week long re-feed before you go changing things for good. Often your body needs this to kick start itself again – so, take a week (maybe 10 days) off your normal diet and up your calories and low GI carbs to try to replenish your leptin levels and activate your fat burning processes again. I would suggest eating about 1800 cals for that time. Then drop your intake back down to 1600 and see what happens. If you continue to loose weight then good! Maybe try to stabiles your cals at a higher level – say 1700 calories.

Due to the effects that your thyroid has on insulin levels, and the fact that you are already suffering hypoglycaemia, I think you are correct in staying on a low carbohydrate diet. What is your current meal plan like? What are your ratios like? I think that a ratio of 30:40:30 would be good. That means, 30% energy from low glycaemic carbohydrates, 40% of energy from lean proteins and 30% of energy from healthy unsaturated fats. I would suggest, that in order to keep your blood glucose balanced, you spread your macronutrients over the day – so keep a good ratio in each meal and don’t restrict starchy carbs to only early in the day. Eating frequently is also good – with 5 to 6 meals definitely the way to go. I’ll take 1600 calories as a basic plan, that means 5 meals fluctuating around 300 cals and then a ‘snack’ at the end of the day. I’ll give you food suggestions but you will need to go back and calculate exact amounts that will fit the ratios. The one thing you need to make sure you do is to stick to REAL, WHOLE foods! Try to stay clear of anything processed. You will also need to up your intake of good fats (from foods if you can) but keep the CLA and MCT up (or look into getting something such as a good a mix of oils you can add to your foods. I know of a good one and I can PM you the name if you want).

So –
Breakfast: I would make this slightly larger than your other meals, so about 350 calories. A ratio of a little more carbohydrates would be ok for first thing in the morning. So, a good breakfast would be a small bowl of natural ‘museli’ – such as a mix of scotch oats, soy grits, wheat bran, sunflower seeds, walnuts/almonds and flax-seeds (maybe get un-ground LSA mix), softened (combine with equal parts boiling water and leave in a thermos overnight to soak). In the morning dish out a little (I would imagine about 1/2 - 2/3 cup after soaking?) and add a squeeze of lemon juice a spoon of natural yoghurt and some mixed spice. Also have eggs - about 1 whole egg and 2 whites, to get a good source of protein.

Mid: Morning: Say 250 cals. ‘Egg and legume’ salad, with egg (whole + one or two whites), some legumes (soy-beans, chick-peas, lentils, probably about 70-100gms), some olives and some walnuts.

Lunch: Say 350 cals. Salmon and spinach salad. This means a big bowl of vegetables (include a lot of dark green leafy vegetables like spinach) with about 150 gms of salmon, a handful of roasted sunflower seeds or pine-nuts, some avocado (1 or 2 tbs) and a small drizzle of olive oil.

Mid: Afternoon: Say 250 cals. Tuna (100gms) and a seed and nut mix (almonds, cashews, pepitas etc.)

Dinner: Say 300 cals. Legume, chicken and vegetable stew (sweat some onions in a little olive oil, add some garlic and ginger and then some cumin and ground coriander seed. Then add a little more oil and some water and mix to let the spices release. Add the vegetables – like broccoli, zucchini, capsicum, egg-plant, cauliflower, celery, carrot, brussel sprouts and cover with water. Add some low-salt vegetable stock and a good amount of black pepper then cover and let simmer to soften over low heat. When they are about ½ done add in some rinsed, pre-cooked legumes (soya-beans, lentils or the like) and then continue to cook until it is just about done then add a good handful of fresh spinach and turn off the heat and cover. Then, when you want to eat it, dish it out, reheat and add strips of steamed chicken.

Snack/Dessert: 100 cals. Maybe something like some almonds/nuts, seeds (linseeds), and some berries with a little cottage cheese?

Make sure you are taking a good multi-vitamin and a good calcium supplement – as without a lot of dairy in your diet you will miss out on calcium and this has the potential to impact on your bones.

What do you think? I don’t know what else to suggest except to keep trying! If the weight is starting to shift then that is a good sign. Try the re-feed and then drop it to 1600 and see what happens.

Good luck.

[imperfectly_lou]

Emma gave some great advice. I would just like to add it is indeed very possible to lose weight on the pill. I would look to your other health conditions as the culprit rather than the pill

[playmaker]

Hey Emma thanks very much for the advices i already increased my intake to 1600 calories, by the way yesterday i cheat (big time)!! my mam came to see me and she made mousaka (greek food) i ate so much until i felt sick lolololol.

[Emma-Leigh]

Originally posted by playmaker
Hey Emma thanks very much for the advices i already increased my intake to 1600 calories, by the way yesterday i cheat (big time)!! my mam came to see me and she made mousaka (greek food) i ate so much until i felt sick lolololol.

You are welcome! If you have any more questions, or would like input into anything else, don't hesitate to ask - either on the boards or via pm.

Yay for increasing your cals! You will notice a difference - I assure you that soon you will wonder how you were surviving on such a low intake! You will also realise exactly why you were feeling so tired and run down. It is great when you have enough energy during the day to stay active and move around. Remember - when you have the energy to move more, you can burn more calories, and you can then eat even more!! (can you tell I love food yet? )

Also - The occasional cheat is a good thing! It keeps you sane and ensures you do not get too controlled with your eating. I hope you enjoyed it!

[Lisa Wagner]

Emma,

Thanks for all you wonderful advice. According to your info and I am really undereating. Starting today I am increasing my calories. I already do cardio in the morning and I walk at night but starting yesterday I walk up and down the stairs several times throughout the day at work ( I am on the 6th floor) so that will give me some exercise throughout the day. I will let you know how everything goes. I do have 1 more question though, you stated in your post that the CYclessa pill I am on now is a good one with usually no side effects and I have heard that from other people too, however I came across and article yesterday that said this pill is really high "Progestional and will have negative effects on my blood sugar", is that true? I seem to like and I haven't had any real side effects from it but this article kinda scarred me.

Thank you again for all your wonderfull information.
Lisa

[Emma-Leigh]

Originally posted by Lisa Wagner
Emma,

Thanks for all you wonderful advice. According to your info and I am really undereating. Starting today I am increasing my calories. I already do cardio in the morning and I walk at night but starting yesterday I walk up and down the stairs several times throughout the day at work ( I am on the 6th floor) so that will give me some exercise throughout the day. I will let you know how everything goes. I do have 1 more question though, you stated in your post that the CYclessa pill I am on now is a good one with usually no side effects and I have heard that from other people too, however I came across and article yesterday that said this pill is really high "Progestional and will have negative effects on my blood sugar", is that true? I seem to like and I haven't had any real side effects from it but this article kinda scarred me.

Thank you again for all your wonderfull information.
Lisa

You are welcome. I hope it helps!

Good to see you increasing your calories - Just be careful and do everything slowly. Remember - 2100 is your maintainence, so to drop weight you should try to sit at about 1800 calories. But, as I said, because of your thyroid problems, you might need a little less (which is why I left the range between 1500 and 1800 cals).

I don't think you should worry about the pill. If you got concerned about every possible 'side-effect' that may occur with all of the different pills you would never touch any of them! So - if you have not experienced side effects, and it is working for you, leave it!!


Keep me posted on how things go!! Good luck!