fat loss..high intensity[short] low intensity [long] cardio????

[BOLDERNECK]

what do you think is better for fat loss....lower intensity cardio [longer] or higher intensity cardio [shorter]....i also train with alower volume bodybiulding regimen....what is your opinion,on the cardio combined with this???

[hmmmm16417]

what do you think is better for fat loss....lower intensity cardio [longer] or higher intensity cardio [shorter]....i also train with alower volume bodybiulding regimen....what is your opinion,on the cardio combined with this???

what are your specific goals?

I used to mix the two. sounds stupid to some people, but I would be on an eliptical at a decent pace until my heart rate got going then I would do a periodic burst at a high intensity for a minute or so. then i would go back to the pace i was at until I was ready to burst again.

if you are just going at a slow/walking pace(light intensity) vs. a 2 mile run/jog (high intensity) ...... I would say the high intensity would be better. however, that is just my opinion.

[AncientYouth]

In the end it's just calories burnt in terms fat losses, liss takes longer but impacts far less on your recovery

I regularly walk 9 miles burns around 800 calories takes ages but doesn't impact on my training.......too much!

[JBWarren70]

The biggest misconception in regards to fat loss is doing cardio. Cardio is NOT a fat loss workout.

Cardio is short for what? Cardiovascular. What is that? Heart, lungs, and blood/vessels. Doing cardio does what? Heart health, lung health, and it pumps your blood so that it can replenish/clean itself. No where does this have to do with fat loss.

Fat loss happens in the kitchen. Your diet determines if you will lose fat.


What cardio do you do? Whatever floats your boat. You can do high intensity weight training and it would be considered as cardio.

[AX64]

I have been away from this site for a few months and I need to update my stats. I won a biggest loser competition at work for losing 40 pounds. I dropped my daily caloric intake from 2200 to 1800 per day, and watching what I eat very very carefully, all my calories came from eating and not drinking. So only water and green tea (no milk, no sugar nothing added).

Work out routine on Full workout days done as a circuit 3 x
Pushups (15), Pullups (15), Squats (15) (with weights), Planking (60 seconds on each rotation)
Pushups (15), Pullups (15), Squats (15) (with weights), Planking (60 seconds on each rotation)
Pushups (15), Pullups (15), Squats (15) (with weights), Planking (60 seconds on each rotation)
Treadmill 5 Min warmup - 30 Min Intense walking - 5 Min cooldown

Next day Tread Mill / Planking only 5 Min Warmup - 40 Min Intense walking - 5 Min cooldown

Heart rate goes up during this and I'm drenched in sweat at the end of the workout.

Read up on the afterburner effect in regards to doing cardio helps with calories being burnt and fat loss.

[AncientYouth]

The biggest misconception in regards to fat loss is doing cardio. Cardio is NOT a fat loss workout.

Cardio is short for what? Cardiovascular. What is that? Heart, lungs, and blood/vessels. Doing cardio does what? Heart health, lung health, and it pumps your blood so that it can replenish/clean itself. No where does this have to do with fat loss.

Fat loss happens in the kitchen. Your diet determines if you will lose fat.


What cardio do you do? Whatever floats your boat. You can do high intensity weight training and it would be considered as cardio.

Pretty poor sub broscience

in that case you may as well lay in bed all day and eat slightly below your BMR and you will also lose weight....you will also look like SH%t

any activity what you call cardio ((running , walking, cycling etc) or weight trainng (which can also be cardio) will aid weight loss as it burns calories

obviously you have to eat less than you burn but ANY activity will allopw you eat more calories and will also make it more likely that you retain LBM when you lose weight


what you fail to realise in your blinkered approach is that Cardio activity also strenuously works the muscles and can strengthen them also, sprinters being a great example of this

[AncientYouth]

Read up on the afterburner effect in regards to doing cardio helps with calories being burnt and fat loss.

The 'after burner' affect is greatly exaggerated!

and is higher from resistance training than traditional cardio

[drudixon]

The 'after burner' affect is greatly exaggerated!

and is higher from resistance training than traditional cardio

Speaking of broscience...

Calories expended on growth for a fetus is 70 percent. After a year 1 percent. For you and I, less than half a percent. Below explains residual increases to rmr. Yes, through time, as metabolically active muscle is added, rmr increases, but that takes years not days.

If an increase of up to 350 calories a day to my rmr at my size is exaggerated you're a tool. The effect lasts as long as 36 hours from a hiit style workout. If I can burn more calories doing nothing at all, I will.

We're talking fat burning. So, how do you burn fat - lipolysis. In order for that to occur, insulin must be low. You can create that condition one of several ways, dietary deficit, liss and hiit being methods to do this. Liss and hiit both can create a glucose deficit in of themselves, tho the latter is less likely. Organs, which burn the most energy in the body, burn fatty acids more so than glucose (excluding the brain) because the energy turnover is almost two to one over carb based sources.

At rest and fasted, there's typically always enough glycogen in the body to supply glucose for brain function, which in the arterial path gets first dibs on glucose released by the liver. During fast, when glycogen thresholds reach lower levels, the pancreas begins the process of working with the liver to release lipases to break down adipose tissue, hence fat is "burned".

So how does cardio affect this? Directly or indirectly. Indirect by reducing blood glucose and fatty acids which induces lipolisis later, or directly by requiring released energy during the period of exercise. Because hiit tends to be short duration, the length of time for the energy deficit doesn't have time to initiate gluconeogenesis. During liss it does. Gluconeogenesis is a process initiated when energy consumption outpaces the rate at which lipolysis and available glycogen can supply the brain and body. The body rarely uses this process. At any rate, during liss, thus process is a mechanism in which enzymes act directly on fatty acids and proteins to make glucose for the brain. Because the body is in protection mode depending on the intensity of the deficit, the blood is flooded with these nonspecific enzymes. They're nonspecific in the sense that they act on fat and protein. Consequently, the enzymes concentrate in areas of highest blood flow, which, thanks to epinephrine and norepinephrine are around the muscles motoring the cardio. During extremely long fasts, this yields total muscular atrophy. During liss length fasts, yields cellular disruption.

You can see there are three ways to initiate lipolysis. Hiit acts by increasing rmr for extended durations. As the body adapts, intensity is increased to yield the same effect. Liss doesn't have the same thermic effect, and as the body adapts, rmr may actually decrease as the adaptations to the demands are metabolic efficiency.

For the record, a 2 mile run isn't high intensity. Intensity is measured by the oxygen deficit created. In terms of net fat burning effects, hiit is superior, tho unnecessary if the same deficit is created via diet.

Fwiw, bodybuilding would fit into the hiit category tho its respiratory effect is highly variable depending on the program and rest period durations.

[mcbourque]

--- For fat loss - it's just the total amount of calorie burned that count towards your total calorie deficit. Some people chose to do no cardio because cardio is not needed to create a total calorie deficit, you can do that through diet. Some people (me) get hungrier with cardio and it's harder to diet.

For total calories, It doesn't matter if it's light or intense - what matters is how much energy total you are using during your training. What can you sustain? There used to be this myth about the "fat loss zone" where people got really confused with the math (percent vs total)

--- for heart conditionning - the harder you train for longer the better your heart will be at sustaining the training. Your lung capacity will increase. All good. You want to be huffing and puffing during your cardio to see cardiovascular benefits.

I am personally not a fan of long light session, I think they are pointless, especially if they are easy enough for me to read a magazine at the same time, but they can be good for the very out of shape and obese to get them started.

[discdoggie]

The biggest misconception in regards to fat loss is doing cardio. Cardio is NOT a fat loss workout.
.

Oh, here we go, bashing cardio again.

OP, if you want to incorporate high intensity intervals into your training, good for you. They (done correctly) are very difficult, but effective, as long as you don't eat back those calories.



There seems to be this notion that the only reason anyone would ever move their bodies is because they want to burn calories. I love running and would never give it up.

I have been away from this site for a few months and I need to update my stats. I won a biggest loser competition at work for losing 40 pounds. I dropped my daily caloric intake from 2200 to 1800 per day, and watching what I eat very very carefully, all my calories came from eating and not drinking. So only water and green tea (no milk, no sugar nothing added).

.

congrats

[massimj]

It looks like you got the best advice already. I am 57 and wanted to drop my belly fat. I'm a slim guy, and nothing looks more neglectful than a skinny guy with a belly. The diet was crucial to dropping fat, but not only involves how much you eat, but what you eat as well. I dropped most of the fat in my belly in 3 weeks, but it is the last 20% that is proving to be a chore. I take in much less fat, I did that by eating zero fat yogurt, low fat cheese, all kinds of vegetables, and salad with most meals. My ideal dinner is a big salad, and a skinless chicken breast grilled to perfection. When I eat lunch and can’t eat what I prepare myself, I stick with chicken and vegetables, and never desert. I adopted a high protein diet, which includes a protein powder taken with almond milk. I add fiber, and creatine to that drink. Lastly, lots of water. Remove bread, and as much sugar as possible from your diet. The sugar you get in most foods will be plenty.
The results you get depend on three things, diet, exercise, and genetics. The last one is the mostly unspoken third element, and it determines what is possible, and how fast your body will respond to doing the right things. oh, and I workout in the gym 4 days a week, or more. Good luck..

Joe

what do you think is better for fat loss....lower intensity cardio [longer] or higher intensity cardio [shorter]....i also train with alower volume bodybiulding regimen....what is your opinion,on the cardio combined with this???

[drudixon]

It looks like you got the best advice already. I am 57 and wanted to drop my belly fat. I'm a slim guy, and nothing looks more neglectful than a skinny guy with a belly. The diet was crucial to dropping fat, but not only involves how much you eat, but what you eat as well. I dropped most of the fat in my belly in 3 weeks, but it is the last 20% that is proving to be a chore. I take in much less fat, I did that by eating zero fat yogurt, low fat cheese, all kinds of vegetables, and salad with most meals. My ideal dinner is a big salad, and a skinless chicken breast grilled to perfection. When I eat lunch and can’t eat what I prepare myself, I stick with chicken and vegetables, and never desert. I adopted a high protein diet, which includes a protein powder taken with almond milk. I add fiber, and creatine to that drink. Lastly, lots of water. Remove bread, and as much sugar as possible from your diet. The sugar you get in most foods will be plenty.
The results you get depend on three things, diet, exercise, and genetics. The last one is the mostly unspoken third element, and it determines what is possible, and how fast your body will respond to doing the right things. oh, and I workout in the gym 4 days a week, or more. Good luck..

Joe

At least 20% of your calories need to come from fat. Your hormones, skin, and joints will Thank you.

[GreenWave1]

I have been away from this site for a few months and I need to update my stats. I won a biggest loser competition at work for losing 40 pounds. I dropped my daily caloric intake from 2200 to 1800 per day, and watching what I eat very very carefully, all my calories came from eating and not drinking.

Excellent job losing the weight.

[phamine]

If you don't like running on a treadmill you can try a spin class for High Intensity Interval Training.

When I was a sprinter in HS and College, HIIT was routinely used to build speed and stamina. If you take a look at athletes who are sprinters, most are lean with decent muscle mass which is what I assume you're here for on the BB forum.

If you have access to a track. You can do windsprints. 200m sprint followed by a 200m jog for rest et cetera.

[x-trainer ben]

what do you think is better for fat loss....lower intensity cardio [longer] or higher intensity cardio [shorter]....i also train with alower volume bodybiulding regimen....what is your opinion,on the cardio combined with this???

First let me say that i like cardio and have done both. Lower intensity can be done repeatedly at 62% of max hr and can really shape you up comfortably, while HIT is hard as FK if done properly and does a good job as well. I gravitate to slower because of heart/recovery/joints/ and the fact that i can repeat it often. If it is too taxing and i won't repeat it what is the point?

[ArchAngel'73]

I don't have to think on this one, research has spelled it out many times.

HIIT and HIT cardio > LISS cardio for fat loss

It's not the cals burned during the session that counts but your revved up metabolism afterwards.

[x-trainer ben]

I don't have to think on this one, research has spelled it out many times.

HIIT and HIT cardio > LISS cardio for fat loss

It's not the cals burned during the session that counts but your revved up metabolism afterwards.

you sir are correct, now tell me how often you have seen a member at your gym do HIIT?

[ArchAngel'73]

you sir are correct, now tell me how often you have seen a member at your gym do HIIT?

Really, every day.
Spin class is full of people, and they are doing HIIT.

[drudixon]

First let me say that i like cardio and have done both. Lower intensity can be done repeatedly at 62% of max hr and can really shape you up comfortably, while HIT is hard as FK if done properly and does a good job as well. I gravitate to slower because of heart/recovery/joints/ and the fact that i can repeat it often. If it is too taxing and i won't repeat it what is the point?

See, I see it the opposite. Why suffer for a long time (liss) when you can suffer for less (hiit)? Favorite hiit is tabata on a bike.

[Medtreker]

Some people (me) get hungrier with cardio and it's harder to diet.

if you want to incorporate high intensity intervals into your training, good for you. They (done correctly) are very difficult, but effective, as long as you don't eat back those calories.

Good points ladies. This is a subtopic here, but one of greater interest to me currently.

What are some methods or suggestions you, or others, would give to reduce "eating back the calories" burned from cardio?

[x-trainer ben]

Really, every day.
Spin class is full of people, and they are doing HIIT.

Well a class is group/peer pressure, but a single individual doing hiit? I never ever see it.... and i jump around to 3 locations. I am not saying it doesn't happen ( i am only there 2 hours door to door) but people take the easy.

[kcmoto]

Speaking of broscience...

Calories expended on growth for a fetus is 70 percent. After a year 1 percent. For you and I, less than half a percent. Below explains residual increases to rmr. Yes, through time, as metabolically active muscle is added, rmr increases, but that takes years not days.

If an increase of up to 350 calories a day to my rmr at my size is exaggerated you're a tool. The effect lasts as long as 36 hours from a hiit style workout. If I can burn more calories doing nothing at all, I will.

We're talking fat burning. So, how do you burn fat - lipolysis. In order for that to occur, insulin must be low. You can create that condition one of several ways, dietary deficit, liss and hiit being methods to do this. Liss and hiit both can create a glucose deficit in of themselves, tho the latter is less likely. Organs, which burn the most energy in the body, burn fatty acids more so than glucose (excluding the brain) because the energy turnover is almost two to one over carb based sources.

At rest and fasted, there's typically always enough glycogen in the body to supply glucose for brain function, which in the arterial path gets first dibs on glucose released by the liver. During fast, when glycogen thresholds reach lower levels, the pancreas begins the process of working with the liver to release lipases to break down adipose tissue, hence fat is "burned".

So how does cardio affect this? Directly or indirectly. Indirect by reducing blood glucose and fatty acids which induces lipolisis later, or directly by requiring released energy during the period of exercise. Because hiit tends to be short duration, the length of time for the energy deficit doesn't have time to initiate gluconeogenesis. During liss it does. Gluconeogenesis is a process initiated when energy consumption outpaces the rate at which lipolysis and available glycogen can supply the brain and body. The body rarely uses this process. At any rate, during liss, thus process is a mechanism in which enzymes act directly on fatty acids and proteins to make glucose for the brain. Because the body is in protection mode depending on the intensity of the deficit, the blood is flooded with these nonspecific enzymes. They're nonspecific in the sense that they act on fat and protein. Consequently, the enzymes concentrate in areas of highest blood flow, which, thanks to epinephrine and norepinephrine are around the muscles motoring the cardio. During extremely long fasts, this yields total muscular atrophy. During liss length fasts, yields cellular disruption.

You can see there are three ways to initiate lipolysis. Hiit acts by increasing rmr for extended durations. As the body adapts, intensity is increased to yield the same effect. Liss doesn't have the same thermic effect, and as the body adapts, rmr may actually decrease as the adaptations to the demands are metabolic efficiency.

For the record, a 2 mile run isn't high intensity. Intensity is measured by the oxygen deficit created. In terms of net fat burning effects, hiit is superior, tho unnecessary if the same deficit is created via diet.

Fwiw, bodybuilding would fit into the hiit category tho its respiratory effect is highly variable depending on the program and rest period durations.

So let me see if I understand you....when doing Liss your body at some point will switch over to a catabolic state and saves the fat and when doing Hiis your body is in continual flux and continues draw from fat reserves for fuel?

[x-trainer ben]

See, I see it the opposite. Why suffer for a long time (liss) when you can suffer for less (hiit)? Favorite hiit is tabata on a bike.

Suffer....? I put on a 1 hour DJ mix and go for it speeding up and slowing down to the beat of the music. I really enjoy maximizing both cardio and weights. My recovery time from redlining it from Hiit is what makes it less "fun"

[steffo99]

I don't have to think on this one, research has spelled it out many times.

HIIT and HIT cardio > LISS cardio for fat loss

It's not the cals burned during the session that counts but your revved up metabolism afterwards.

Wanted to say something along these lines. BeeBeCee showed in that program, "The truth about exercise" , that one could get remarkable benefits in general from just a few hardcore minutes per week. No wonder I weighed 155 lbs when ran middle distance I will for sure try to do some interval training again.

[drudixon]

So let me see if I understand you....when doing Liss your body at some point will switch over to a catabolic state and saves the fat and when doing Hiis your body is in continual flux and continues draw from fat reserves for fuel?

It's not necessarily that it's saving fat, it's that it's getting energy as fast as possible from any source possible. Turning protein or fat into glucose is horrible inefficient.

That said, typically it's not relevant. How often are you going to burn through 2400 calories of glycogen in your liver, another 500-1500 in your muscles on top of whatever was in your blood when you started? If you've been fasting for a long time, then likely there's not as much to burn through before your body starts to tap fat, and later protein. Unless you're "starving", your liver glycogen will never reach zero. In fact, it doesn't reach zero when it starts gluconeogenesis. Typically fat oxidation from adipose tissue is going to occur after a period of reduced insulin. Insulin is always in your blood, but as long as it's below certain thresholds, fat oxidation will occur. Sadly, when insulin's low, ghrelin (hunger hormone) goes up

If you're fed, liss is going to help create a deficit, and possibly burn some fat while doing it. An interesting study of some well trained individuals demonstrated the deleterious effect of high glucose on fat burning. Having high blood sugar at the start of aerobic exercise reduces fat oxidation 30%. One of the reasons Keto, CKD, etc are so effective is that there's never an inhibitory effect from insulin.

During times of nutritional need, triglycerides within the adipocyte lipid droplet are hydrolyzed into their components, fatty acids, acyl-glycerides, and, ultimately, glycerol. This process, termed lipolysis, is controlled dynamically by multiple hormonal signals that respond to the nutrient status of the organism. During fasting, catecholamines such as norepinephrine stimulate lipolysis via beta-adrenergic receptor activation, promoting adenylyl cyclase activity and the production of cyclic AMP (cAMP) (17). cAMP binds to the regulatory subunits of its major effector, protein kinase A (PKA), triggering the dissociation of these subunits and the subsequent activation of the catalytic subunits (62, 63). PKA is frequently sequestered into multiple parallel, intracellular signaling complexes, though such structures have not been studied in hormone-responsive adipocytes (68). Two targets of activated PKA important for lipolysis are hormone-sensitive lipase (HSL) and perilipin, the major lipid droplet coat protein (17). The phosphorylation of HSL on Ser 559/660 is crucial for its activation and translocation to the lipid droplet, where HSL catalyzes the hydrolysis of diglycerides to monoglycerides (26, 55). Another lipase, adipose triglyceride lipase (ATGL), carries out the initial cleavage of triglycerides to diglycerides and most likely is rate limiting for lipolysis, but it does not appear to be regulated directly via PKA phosphorylation (24, 73). Perilipin under basal conditions acts as a protective barrier against lipase activity; upon stimulation, the phosphorylation of least six PKA consensus sites triggers a conformational change in perilipin, permitting access to the lipid substrates in the droplet, the recruitment of HSL, and possibly the activation of ATGL (7, 8, 21, 41, 46, 58, 60, 61). Perilipin, therefore, possesses dual functions, both blocking lipolysis in the basal state as well as promoting lipolysis upon its phosphorylation (5, 58, 60).

Following the ingestion of a meal, insulin stimulates the uptake of nutrients such as glucose into specialized tissues and also potently inhibits lipolysis in adipocytes (17). Insulin signaling in the adipocyte involves the activation of the insulin receptor tyrosine kinase, the phosphorylation of insulin receptor substrates, the activation of PI3K, and the subsequent production of specific phosphoinositides at the plasma membrane (59). These phosphoinositides then recruit Akt, via its pleckstrin homology domain, to the plasma membrane, where Akt becomes phosphorylated and activated by two upstream kinases. Akt stimulates the translocation of the glucose transporter GLUT4 to the plasma membrane, thereby promoting the uptake of glucose into the cell (2). The mechanism by which insulin inhibits lipolysis has been proposed to involve the reduction of cAMP levels and thus PKA activity. In this model, insulin signaling activates phosphodiesterase 3b (PDE3b) via the Akt-mediated phosphorylation of Ser273 (14, 32). Upon activation by Akt, PDE3b catalyzes the hydrolysis of cAMP to 5′AMP, thereby attenuating PKA activity and lipolysis. Recent studies of PDE3b knockout mice have highlighted the importance of PDE3b activity in the regulation of lipolysis but were uninformative regarding the mechanism of insulin action (12). Adipocytes isolated from these mice exhibit reduced responses to insulin with respect to lipolysis, but it is not clear whether this is due to the loss of the critical target enzyme or a normal mechanism being overwhelmed by supraphysiological concentrations of cAMP (12). Biochemical studies using dominant-inhibitory Akt have demonstrated that Akt can regulate PDE3b activity, and other studies also have suggested that Akt interacts directly with PDE3b, implying a direct connection to lipolysis regulation (1, 32). Nevertheless, the actual requirement for Akt in insulin action with regard to the lipolysis itself has not been demonstrated directly in, for example, genetic loss-of-function experiments.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2953052/

[AncientYouth]

Most people who think they are doing HIIT are not doing it, how Sustainable is it in the long term?
really year in year out say good bye to your knees and joints

Massively impacts on your recovery,

80% of weight loss is diet so why kill self yourself

I only do stuff I know I will maintain for life, power walking is one those things that anyone can do

[JBWarren70]

Pretty poor sub broscience

in that case you may as well lay in bed all day and eat slightly below your BMR and you will also lose weight....you will also look like SH%t

any activity what you call cardio ((running , walking, cycling etc) or weight trainng (which can also be cardio) will aid weight loss as it burns calories

obviously you have to eat less than you burn but ANY activity will allopw you eat more calories and will also make it more likely that you retain LBM when you lose weight


what you fail to realise in your blinkered approach is that Cardio activity also strenuously works the muscles and can strengthen them also, sprinters being a great example of this

You just regurgitated what I posted? Were my words too big for you? I advised to do cardio, whatever type he wants to do.

Oh, here we go, bashing cardio again.

OP, if you want to incorporate high intensity intervals into your training, good for you. They (done correctly) are very difficult, but effective, as long as you don't eat back those calories.

There seems to be this notion that the only reason anyone would ever move their bodies is because they want to burn calories. I love running and would never give it up.

I do cardio. How am I bashing again in my post? Do you understand Engrish?

[AncientYouth]

Cardio is short for what? Cardiovascular. What is that? Heart, lungs, and blood/vessels. Doing cardio does what? Heart health, lung health, and it pumps your blood so that it can replenish/clean itself. No where does this have to do with fat loss.



io.

WTF is this bro nonsense

[EjnarKolinkar]

what do you think is better for fat loss....lower intensity cardio [longer] or higher intensity cardio [shorter]....i also train with alower volume bodybiulding regimen....what is your opinion,on the cardio combined with this???

Whichever one you enjoy more and are more likely to actually accomplish regularly, and or both.

[JBWarren70]

WTF is this bro nonsense

HAHA, you are clueless but it is "bro-science" because of your ignorance of anatomy? Good job, BRO! LOL

Don't hurt your brain cells BRAH!

The cardiovascular system consists of the heart, blood vessels, and the approximately 5 liters of blood that the blood vessels transport. Responsible for transporting oxygen, nutrients, hormones, and cellular waste products throughout the body, the cardiovascular system is powered by the body’s hardest-working organ — the heart...

http://www.innerbody.com/image/cardo...ll-description


Want me to blow your mind even more, brah?

Cardio is greek for heart, or kardia. It also refers to aerobic exercise, where aerobic refers to "living in air." Which means the use of oxygen to meet the demand of exercise.

Which means what, bro, not fat loss.


Just because you are ignorant of anatomy/physiology does not make another persons post "sub-bro science." I don't have a piece of paper that says I have a degree in this either, I learned it on my own.