Problems with my strength program?

[Ryanpounce]

I've never strength trained or did a 6 day body part split program before. Just want to know the problems with this program before I do it.

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks

[Jasonk282]

If you never ran a strength program then run Starting Strength or Stronglifts...

[Ryanpounce]

If you never ran a strength program then run Starting Strength or Stronglifts...

I don't like the way they're set up. I just want people to point out the problems with this program.

[Violander]

I don't like the way they're set up. I just want people to point out the problems with this program.

Well, for one - you have barbell curl 5x5 in it (I mean seriously, what the hell)

You have 2 barbel curls, but only 1 Squat?
You don't have enough rest days.
For a program with such volume - 1/3, sometimes 1/2 of your workouts are on minor muscle groups like forearms and calves.

Honestly, this is just pure garbage. Scrap it and follow Jasonk282's advice - go SS or SL or some other decent program. (what exactly are your issues with those programs?)

[Ryanpounce]

Well, for one - you have barbell curl 5x5 in it (I mean seriously, what the hell)

You have 2 barbel curls, but only 1 Squat?
You don't have enough rest days.
For a program with such volume - 1/3, sometimes 1/2 of your workouts are on minor muscle groups like forearms and calves.

Honestly, this is just pure garbage. Scrap it and follow Jasonk282's advice - go SS or SL or some other decent program. (what exactly are your issues with those programs?)

Wait, how come you can't have the same set/rep set up for isolation workouts? Is there a different way of strength training them? I figured 5x5 would work with every major muscle. And I'd say about 1/5-1/8 of my workout is minor muscles. Consider the rest time time. I'd be taking 3-5 minute breaks with the major muscle group exercises. And the reason why I don't like SS and SL is because they have minimal back work and no bicep work.

[gerb007]

If you want to run a strength based 5x5 don't run it 6 days a week. If you are progressing appropriately on a 5x5 at around 80% of your 1RM your CNS likely won't do well on 6days a week. I personally run a 5x5 upper/lower, so 4 days a week. You may want to try something along those lines. Let me know if you want to see the full setup.

[hammerfelt]

Wait, how come you can't have the same set/rep set up for isolation workouts? Is there a different way of strength training them? I figured 5x5 would work with every major muscle. And I'd say about 1/5-1/8 of my workout is minor muscles. Consider the rest time time. I'd be taking 3-5 minute breaks with the major muscle group exercises. And the reason why I don't like SS and SL is because they have minimal back work and no bicep work.

Stop thinking and pick an established beginner program.

This back built by StrongLifts.

[Jasonk282]

Wait, how come you can't have the same set/rep set up for isolation workouts? Is there a different way of strength training them? I figured 5x5 would work with every major muscle. And I'd say about 1/5-1/8 of my workout is minor muscles. Consider the rest time time. I'd be taking 3-5 minute breaks with the major muscle group exercises. And the reason why I don't like SS and SL is because they have minimal back work and no bicep work.

minimal back work? you row or pull from the floor 3 days a week. you can add your precvious curls in, but 3x8-12 is better for smaller muscles

squat 5x5
bench 5x5
row 5x5
curl 3x8

squat 5x5
ohp 5x5
deadlift 5x5
pull up 3x amap

squat 5x5
bench 5x5
row 5x5
curl 3x8

[Meatros]

Wait, how come you can't have the same set/rep set up for isolation workouts? Is there a different way of strength training them? I figured 5x5 would work with every major muscle. And I'd say about 1/5-1/8 of my workout is minor muscles. Consider the rest time time. I'd be taking 3-5 minute breaks with the major muscle group exercises. And the reason why I don't like SS and SL is because they have minimal back work and no bicep work.

WUT?

Just do SS or SL and throw in an extra set or three of bicep work.

[Ryanpounce]

minimal back work? you row or pull from the floor 3 days a week. you can add your precvious curls in, but 3x8-12 is better for smaller muscles

squat 5x5
bench 5x5
row 5x5
curl 3x8

squat 5x5
ohp 5x5
deadlift 5x5
pull up 3x amap

squat 5x5
bench 5x5
row 5x5
curl 3x8

Oh, that's not the routine I saw. Where did you find that?

[Jasonk282]

Oh, that's not the routine I saw. Where did you find that?

in my head, i made it like 5 minutes ago.

[Violander]

Wait, how come you can't have the same set/rep set up for isolation workouts? Is there a different way of strength training them? I figured 5x5 would work with every major muscle. And I'd say about 1/5-1/8 of my workout is minor muscles. Consider the rest time time. I'd be taking 3-5 minute breaks with the major muscle group exercises. And the reason why I don't like SS and SL is because they have minimal back work and no bicep work.

Oh, it's not the fact that you go 5x5 for curls (although I personally wouldn't do it). There is nothing technically wrong with 5 set reps for biceps, but it's just not needed. It's biceps, a very minor muscle group. Treat it as most isolation assistance exercise - higher volume, lower intensity.

Anyway, the reason your routine is horrific (in my opinion) is because it's all backwards.

What's the basics of a good strength routine for beginners?

1. Focus on the best lifts. Big compounds.

Select them: Bench, OHP, Barbell Rows, Pull ups, Deadlift, Squat

2. Give enough rest and recovery time.

3-4 days a week is a good estimate.

3. Train the biggest parts the most.

So for a 3 day workout - I personally would Squat twice a week (maybe even 3 times), bench and row twice a week and deadlift once a week

4. Select your parameters.

5x5 for main compounds. Something lighter for assistance work (3x8-12). It's assistance work for a reason.


p.s. Ryanpounce, you're embarrassing yourself by having "Barbell Curl" in your sig. Noone cares how much anyone curls (apart from maybe some 'bros')

[Wildtim]

I don't like the way they're set up. I just want people to point out the problems with this program.

Do you understand why they are set up the way they are? There is a very good reason for whats there, and what isn't.

[duck1dong]

I've never strength trained or did a 6 day body part split program before. Just want to know the problems with this program before I do it.

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks

Other than the curls before the rows it looks fine. Keep in mind push or pull, no rest on the shoulder joint? How much actual strength are you going to gain with this volume?

[Collin33]

I've never strength trained or did a 6 day body part split program before. Just want to know the problems with this program before I do it.

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks

3 lifts a day? One problem may be that you will plateau fast with only 3 lifts a day try adding more concentrated lifts along with your main lifts you have to exhaust the muscles or they will not grow! Also on your last set of each lift instead of doing the minimum reps go til you hit failure

Example bench press you aim for 5x5 but say on your last set you can do 8-10 reps or more before you reach failure! This means you are starting with a weight that's too light or not increasing in high enough increments. On your last set you should struggle to get your last 2-3 reps stressing the muscles like this forces them to grow.

Also try adding more complimentary/auxiliary lifts each day 3-4 lifts a day just isn't enough to exhaust the muscles.

Example workout (ill modify what you currently have )

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4
30sec-1min breaks
1 arm lat pulls 4x8-12
Pull-ups 3xfailure
Concentration curls 4x8-12
Back flys 4x8-12
Hammer curls 4x8-12

Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Push-ups 3xfailure (do different variations like wide or military or diamond)
Add 2-3 tricep exercises bench works the triceps as well as chest so do the complimentary exercises to completely exhaust the muscle groups used each day
Db pec flys 3x8-12
Db bench 3x8-12
Dips 3xfailure

Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Leg extensions 3x8-12
Hamstring curls 3x8-12
Abduction and adduction 3x8-12
Lunges 3x8-12
Box step ups with barbell 3x8-12
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wide grip barbell curl 3x8-12
Reverse grip/chin ups 3xfailure
Lat pull down3x8-12
Rowing machine heavy resistance 2 minutes
1arm lat pulls
Death crawls 3x8-12

Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
More push-ups

WHERE ARE THE SHOULDER EXERCISES???
Can't for get shoulders
Trap shrugs
Barbell shrugs
Shoulder press
Incline bench
Db shoulder press
Butterfly press
Lat arm raises
A caption exercises
Internal and external rotation

Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks[/QUOTE]
Lunges 3x12
Squat jumps 3x25
Bulgarian lunges
Calf raises
Gluete ham extensions
Hamstring curls

My main point is, is you will plateau fast with this alone slowly add more exercises or more weight and interchange your complimentary exercises after about 6 weeks to avoid plateau

Try some Olympic lifts as well they go great with back day or shoulder day or dead lift/ gluete hamstring day

Hope this helps! Good luck

[Violander]

Please don't do what he posted. That's even worse for a strength program.

To Collin33 - before you give advice out like that, use your brains and look at the successful strength pgraout tnd , which is - 3 days a week for most. Lower volume for most (3-4 lifts, no more needed per session to grow and increase strength).

You don't need to "exhaust" your muscles to grow, nor do you need to go to failure, ever. Apply linear progression once you hit 5x5 - increase the weights.

Your workout is full of unnecessary exercises for a strength program

[SkydogGinsberg]

3 lifts a day? One problem may be that you will plateau fast with only 3 lifts a day try adding more concentrated lifts along with your main lifts you have to exhaust the muscles or they will not grow! Also on your last set of each lift instead of doing the minimum reps go til you hit failure

Example bench press you aim for 5x5 but say on your last set you can do 8-10 reps or more before you reach failure! This means you are starting with a weight that's too light or not increasing in high enough increments. On your last set you should struggle to get your last 2-3 reps stressing the muscles like this forces them to grow.

Also try adding more complimentary/auxiliary lifts each day 3-4 lifts a day just isn't enough to exhaust the muscles.

Example workout (ill modify what you currently have )

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4
30sec-1min breaks
1 arm lat pulls 4x8-12
Pull-ups 3xfailure
Concentration curls 4x8-12
Back flys 4x8-12
Hammer curls 4x8-12

Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Push-ups 3xfailure (do different variations like wide or military or diamond)
Add 2-3 tricep exercises bench works the triceps as well as chest so do the complimentary exercises to completely exhaust the muscle groups used each day
Db pec flys 3x8-12
Db bench 3x8-12
Dips 3xfailure

Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Leg extensions 3x8-12
Hamstring curls 3x8-12
Abduction and adduction 3x8-12
Lunges 3x8-12
Box step ups with barbell 3x8-12
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wide grip barbell curl 3x8-12
Reverse grip/chin ups 3xfailure
Lat pull down3x8-12
Rowing machine heavy resistance 2 minutes
1arm lat pulls
Death crawls 3x8-12

Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
More push-ups

WHERE ARE THE SHOULDER EXERCISES???
Can't for get shoulders
Trap shrugs
Barbell shrugs
Shoulder press
Incline bench
Db shoulder press
Butterfly press
Lat arm raises
A caption exercises
Internal and external rotation

Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaksx
Lunges 3x12
Squat jumps 3x25
Bulgarian lunges
Calf raises
Gluete ham extensions
Hamstring curls

My main point is, is you will plateau fast with this alone slowly add more exercises or more weight and interchange your complimentary exercises after about 6 weeks to avoid plateau

Try some Olympic lifts as well they go great with back day or shoulder day or dead lift/ gluete hamstring day

Hope this helps! Good luck

3x8-12 Death Crawls on Wednesday? I dunno man... sounds like overtraining.

[Jasonk282]

3 lifts a day? One problem may be that you will plateau fast with only 3 lifts a day try adding more concentrated lifts along with your main lifts you have to exhaust the muscles or they will not grow! Also on your last set of each lift instead of doing the minimum reps go til you hit failure

Example bench press you aim for 5x5 but say on your last set you can do 8-10 reps or more before you reach failure! This means you are starting with a weight that's too light or not increasing in high enough increments. On your last set you should struggle to get your last 2-3 reps stressing the muscles like this forces them to grow.

Also try adding more complimentary/auxiliary lifts each day 3-4 lifts a day just isn't enough to exhaust the muscles.

Example workout (ill modify what you currently have )

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4
30sec-1min breaks
1 arm lat pulls 4x8-12
Pull-ups 3xfailure
Concentration curls 4x8-12
Back flys 4x8-12
Hammer curls 4x8-12

Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Push-ups 3xfailure (do different variations like wide or military or diamond)
Add 2-3 tricep exercises bench works the triceps as well as chest so do the complimentary exercises to completely exhaust the muscle groups used each day
Db pec flys 3x8-12
Db bench 3x8-12
Dips 3xfailure

Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Leg extensions 3x8-12
Hamstring curls 3x8-12
Abduction and adduction 3x8-12
Lunges 3x8-12
Box step ups with barbell 3x8-12
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wide grip barbell curl 3x8-12
Reverse grip/chin ups 3xfailure
Lat pull down3x8-12
Rowing machine heavy resistance 2 minutes
1arm lat pulls
Death crawls 3x8-12

Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
More push-ups

WHERE ARE THE SHOULDER EXERCISES???
Can't for get shoulders
Trap shrugs
Barbell shrugs
Shoulder press
Incline bench
Db shoulder press
Butterfly press
Lat arm raises
A caption exercises
Internal and external rotation

Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Lunges 3x12
Squat jumps 3x25
Bulgarian lunges
Calf raises
Gluete ham extensions
Hamstring curls

My main point is, is you will plateau fast with this alone slowly add more exercises or more weight and interchange your complimentary exercises after about 6 weeks to avoid plateau

Try some Olympic lifts as well they go great with back day or shoulder day or dead lift/ gluete hamstring day

Hope this helps! Good luck

DO u even kknow what a streng program is...LOL this is garbage^

[ironwill2008]

I've never strength trained or did a 6 day body part split program before. Just want to know the problems with this program before I do it.

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks

^^^^ This is terrible, and has no relation to a proper 'strength' program.

3 lifts a day? One problem may be that you will plateau fast with only 3 lifts a day try adding more concentrated lifts along with your main lifts you have to exhaust the muscles or they will not grow! Also on your last set of each lift instead of doing the minimum reps go til you hit failure

Example bench press you aim for 5x5 but say on your last set you can do 8-10 reps or more before you reach failure! This means you are starting with a weight that's too light or not increasing in high enough increments. On your last set you should struggle to get your last 2-3 reps stressing the muscles like this forces them to grow.

Also try adding more complimentary/auxiliary lifts each day 3-4 lifts a day just isn't enough to exhaust the muscles.

Example workout (ill modify what you currently have )

Monday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4
30sec-1min breaks
1 arm lat pulls 4x8-12
Pull-ups 3xfailure
Concentration curls 4x8-12
Back flys 4x8-12
Hammer curls 4x8-12

Tuesday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
Push-ups 3xfailure (do different variations like wide or military or diamond)
Add 2-3 tricep exercises bench works the triceps as well as chest so do the complimentary exercises to completely exhaust the muscle groups used each day
Db pec flys 3x8-12
Db bench 3x8-12
Dips 3xfailure

Wednesday:
Barbell squat 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Leg extensions 3x8-12
Hamstring curls 3x8-12
Abduction and adduction 3x8-12
Lunges 3x8-12
Box step ups with barbell 3x8-12
Thursday:
Barbell curl 5x5
Barbell bent over rows 5x5
Reverse/regular seated wrist curls 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Wide grip barbell curl 3x8-12
Reverse grip/chin ups 3xfailure
Lat pull down3x8-12
Rowing machine heavy resistance 2 minutes
1arm lat pulls
Death crawls 3x8-12

Friday:
Barbell bench press 5x5
Barbell behind the neck press 5x5
Weighted sit-ups 12x4 30sec-1min breaks
More push-ups

WHERE ARE THE SHOULDER EXERCISES???
Can't for get shoulders
Trap shrugs
Barbell shrugs
Shoulder press
Incline bench
Db shoulder press
Butterfly press
Lat arm raises
A caption exercises
Internal and external rotation

Saturday:
Dead lift 5x5
Machine calf extension 15x4 30sec-1min breaks
Lunges 3x12
Squat jumps 3x25
Bulgarian lunges
Calf raises
Gluete ham extensions
Hamstring curls

My main point is, is you will plateau fast with this alone slowly add more exercises or more weight and interchange your complimentary exercises after about 6 weeks to avoid plateau

Try some Olympic lifts as well they go great with back day or shoulder day or dead lift/ gluete hamstring day

Hope this helps! Good luck

Good grief.

Didn't think it was possible, but ^^^^ this mess is even worse than what opie posted.











Both of you guise need to stop posting, Google 'Bill Starr,' and start reading everything you can find that he wrote.

[krysix]

If you want a 5x5 with assistance look at this:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=155022423

[Collin33]

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our own opinions and we all have what works for us!

I am an ectomorph and always have been. I merely suggest this.... what y'all may call over training, because it worked for me the split is good as it allows 2-3 days for each body part to rest he has back and biceps one day but won't work those muscles again for a few days = good rest period for optimal growth then works a different group of muscles the next day and won't work those again for a few days. Then he has leg day and chest day following. Forgive me if I'm wrong but if he follows his leg day with another upper body group does that not allow his legs to rest?

I'm not questioning anything anyone has to say just merely making a suggestion

I was a 2 sport college athlete and our strength program in the off season for football was based on exhausting the muscles. With plenty of time to recover.

Designed by nationally certified strength and conditioning coach.

A program similar to what I have outlined allowed me to gain almost 40 pounds in less than two years. All of which was good weight.

I weighed 175 when I graduated high school, and weighed 215 by junior year. I now weigh 238. If you will go look at my profile you will see that I am not fat it is for the most part good weight

I may also add that the only supplementation I do is whey protein and multivitamins.

This program pushed us to the absolute limit everyday!
Like I said not every program works the same for every person.

Don't be afraid to over train be afraid to UNDER TRAIN.



If you get a chance get online and see what CT FLETCHER has to say about over training!

[SkydogGinsberg]

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our own opinions and we all have what works for us!

"Strength program" has a very specific meaning. It's primary goal is to elicit highest possible gains of intensity (which also has a very specific meaning: %RM) in 3-4 primary lifts. Accessories are carefully chosen to shore up specific weak points, enhancing the primary lifts. Volume/frequency/intensity are variables calculated to reach lift goals, whilst providing adequate deload for CNS/joint/connective tissue recovery.

The Big List of Stuff To Do that you outlined is a lot of random work to provide muscle exhaustion, with a ton of dissociated "stuff" thrown together. While it may work to provide some overall muscular growth in presence of calorie surplus, it's not particularly well-constructed towards anything specific, and is certainly not within definition of: "strength program".

If you want a look at how one of the NFL's most successful S&C coaches puts together a strength program, check out Bill Starr.

[Violander]

Fair enough, we are all entitled to our own opinions and we all have what works for us!

I agree that a lot of things in training are subjective and something that works best for one may not work best for another.

But what you outlined is not a strength program (or a very very bad one at least) As I said previously, there are certain principles that every strength program follows, otherwise it's just a program.

None said your program is bad because it includes overtraining (I myself hardly think it's possible for a young-ish non-pro guy to overtain). It is simply a poorly designed program. And I am willing to bet that another program, a better one, would not only give you the same results, but even better ones.