SRS questions for non-Christians

[DiamondSwagg]

Jesus already came back from the dead,

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time” (1st Corinthians 15:3-8).

he died, was buried, and on the 3rd day he rose up from the dead, proving he was the victorious.


and he WILL fullfil all the promises he made, God always keeps his promises.

So if someone 3000 years ago wrote that horses had wings would you automatically believe it?

[Ultimate Genetics]

**** gets real at the 2:00 mark

[CosmicButtBear]

Not all the prophecies had to do with Jesus. I guess the original post was a little misleading. I believe that He fulfilled all the ones that pertained to Him... OH, I see your lmao... So dont know if you wanted an answer anyway..

I did want the answer. But I don't even believe in the validity of the old testament. Who really wrote the old testament and how do we know that this person wasn't some guy living in a fantasy world. Let's say I wanted to write a book. And in this book I write about these prophecies a great man will one day fulfill. A few pages later in this book I started, someone else claims to write about this very man fulfilling these prophecies. Just because they're in the book does not mean they actually happened. So I'm saying those prophecies you mention are possible because the writers of the bible decided to make them possible.

I wrote my own prophecies. A boy will come and rid the world of dragons and he will be born of a virgin. Years later, "someone else" comes and writes. Jimmy Rustles will be born of slooty sloot whom is a virgin because he must be born of a sinless creature. Jimmy Rustles yells Fus Ro Dah and all the dragons die. The prophecy has been fulfilled.

^ People read my book and say "oh boy" Jimmy Rustles is the hero of mankind because he got rid of the dragons. Amazing, it was predicted before he was even born.

See where I'm coming from brah?

[CamelJockey]

Why are those conditions necessary for a "true" prophecy? Who has the authority to determine what is considered a prophesy and what not?

You don't think a prophecy should be highly specific? I prophecize that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.....am I now a prophet if that comes true?

[Molec]

and he WILL fullfil all the promises he made, God always keeps his promises.

What promises has god kept?

[Cinabun]

Why are those conditions necessary for a "true" prophecy? Who has the authority to determine what is considered a prophesy and what not?

Because then it can't be verified. And as you know, we atheists are pretty big on something called 'proof'.

[dietcola]

I have a highly religious cousin who tries to have the same kind of argument with me about Islam.....pretty much, whatever is written in the Quran is true, but when I ask for another source to back up his claim that something is true, of course he doesn't have one

I understand that. You cant quote something, that the other doesnt believe..

[DepressedBrahh]

What promises has god kept?

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Misce...prophecies.htm

[forthenoodz]

Because then it can't be verified. And as you know, we atheists are pretty big on something called 'proof'.

that's the point. since atheists only believe in something factual.

but lettuce be real tea, if christianity is entirely factual and everything can be proven, it wouldn't be a faith and everyone would be a "christian" since it's the only logical thing to do (don't go to hell)

and God doesn't want that. he wants a relationship with love, not one without feelings

[DepressedBrahh]

Because then it can't be verified. And as you know, we atheists are pretty big on something called 'proof'.

Hewbrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

[CamelJockey]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Misce...prophecies.htm

All those prophecies are still written in one book. If I wrote a story and told you it was true, and the writings in my book were the only proof I had, would you believe my story to be true?

[redbinder]

Jesus already came back from the dead,

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he ROSE AGAIN the third day according to the scriptures: And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time” (1st Corinthians 15:3-8).

he died, was buried, and on the 3rd day he rose up from the dead, proving he was the victorious.


and he WILL fullfil all the promises he made, God always keeps his promises.

The point is you are saying:

Jesus fulfilled the prophecies, therefore he is obviously God.

But when people point out he hasn't fulfilled the (hard) prophecies, you say:

Jesus is God, therefore he will fulfill the prophecies.

It's a circular argument. The bottom line is that he hasn't fulfilled the prophecies.

[Cinabun]

that's the point. since atheists only believe in something factual.

but lettuce be real tea, if christianity is factual and everything can be proven, it wouldn't be a faith and everyone would be a "christian" since it's the only logical thing to do (don't go to hell)

and God doesn't want that. he wants a relationship with love, not one without feelings

Exactly, and people having personal faith is cool with me. When it starts being un-cool is when people try to use their own religious beliefs to justify starting wars, legislating unethical crap, muddling science education and basically being holier-than-thou douchebags.

[redbinder]

You don't think a prophecy should be highly specific? I prophecize that the sun will rise tomorrow morning.....am I now a prophet if that comes true?

I don't think that a prophecy being highly specific is part of it's definition.

[HardToExplain]

If there really is a God I don't think he interferes with life and performs "miracles."

But I doubt one even exists.

[Cinabun]

Hewbrews 11:6 "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

Dude that means nothing to me. The ancient desert scribblings are just that to me, ancient desert scribblings. You're already atheist about tons of gods like Zeus, Apollo, Odin, Thor, Isis, etc... I, and others like myself, just take it one god farther. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[CamelJockey]

I don't think that a prophecy being highly specific is part of it's definition.

prophecy(n.) the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.

yeah, you're right, it's not part of its definition......so when I say the sun will rise tomorrow morning, and you see that it is true, bow down to me, your prophet

[Molec]

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Misce...prophecies.htm

Creates universe...milky way, stars, planets, et al, and these petty, vague and provincial prophecies are all he can muster?

Wouldnt it have been more befitting, if in the bible, any one of these mathematical problems were solved

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...in_mathematics

You know...a prophecy solving these problems would be dignified, miracolous...and most importantly, relevant to our times and impressions.

[dietcola]

List of Prophecies, non religious:

His name called Immanuel, "God with us" Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
Messenger crying "Prepare ye the way of the Lord" John The Baptist Isaiah 40:3 Matthew 3:3
Accused by false witnesses Psalm 35:11 Matthew 26:60
Hated without a cause Psalm 35:19 Matthew 27:23
Crucified with criminals Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:35
Resurrected from the dead Psalm 16:10-11; 49:15 Mark 16:6
Heal blind/deaf/lame/dumb Isaiah 35:5-6; Isaiah 29:18 Matthew 11:5


References outside the Bible:

-- FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS

Josephus was a Jewish historian who was born around AD 38. He served Roman commander Vespasian in Jerusalem until the city's destruction in AD 70. Josephus personally believed Vespasian to be Israel's promised Messiah. When Vespasian later became emperor of Rome, Josephus served under him as court historian. 2 In AD 93, Josephus finished his work Antiquities of the Jews in which at least three passages specifically confirm portions of Scripture:

But to some of the Jews the destruction of Herod's army seemed to be divine vengeance, and certainly a just vengeance, for his treatment of John, surnamed the Baptist. For Herod had put him to death, though he was a good man and had exhorted the Jews to lead righteous lives, to practice justice towards their fellows and piety towards God, and so doing to join in baptism. 3

...convened the judges of the Sanhedrin and brought before them a man named James, the brother of Jesus who was called the Christ, and certain others. He accused them of having transgressed the law and delivered them up to be stoned. 4

At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive;... 5


-- PLINIUS SECUNDUS (Pliny the Younger)

Pliny was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor. Much of his correspondence has survived including a particular letter written circa AD 112 to the Roman emperor Trajan. This letter does not reference Christ directly, but it does establish several beliefs and practices of early Christians. This includes their loyalty to Christ even when it cost them their lives. Pliny's letter states:

In the meantime, the method I have observed towards those who have been denounced to me as Christians is this: I interrogated them whether they were in fact Christians; if they confessed it, I repeated the question twice, adding the threat of capital punishment; if they still persevered, I ordered them to be executed.

...They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before it was light, when they sang in alternate verses a hymn to Christ, as to a god, and bound themselves by a solemn oath, not to perform any wicked deed, never to commit any fraud, theft or adultery, never to falsify their word, nor deny a trust when they should be called upon to make it good; after which it was their custom to separate, and then reassemble to partake of food - but food of an ordinary and innocent kind. 6


-- CORNELIUS TACITUS

Tacitus was a senator under Emperor Vespasian and later became governor of Asia. Around AD 116 in his work entitled Annals, he wrote of Emperor Nero and a fire which had swept Rome in AD 64:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome... 7


-- GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLAS

Suetonius was a chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian writing around AD 120 in his work Life of Claudius:

Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he expelled them from the city. 8


-- LUCIAN

Lucian, the Greek satirist, wrote this rather scathing attack in The Death of Peregrine circa AD 170:

The Christians, you know, worship a man to this day - the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed upon them by their original lawgiver that they are all brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. 9


-- THE TALMUD

The Talmud is essentially the collection of Jewish oral traditions that were put into writing with additional commentary between the years of AD 70 and 200. From the Babylonian Talmud, Sanhedrin 43a includes:

On the eve of Passover they hanged Yeshu. And an announcer went out, in front of him, for forty days (saying): 'He is going to be stoned because he practiced sorcery and enticed and led Israel astray. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and plead in his behalf.' But, not having found anything in his favor, they hanged him on the eve of the Passover. 10

[dietcola]

Exactly, and people having personal faith is cool with me. When it starts being un-cool is when people try to use their own religious beliefs to justify starting wars, legislating unethical crap, muddling science education and basically being holier-than-thou douchebags.

I completely agree.. We should talk more about it through IM.. WAT?

[GhettoHustler69]

I can't believe people still believe in fairy tales in the year 2012.

[joe17little]

bible says man was made from dirt

man was obviously not made from dirt



inb4 OP tries to claim it was "metaphorical". If that's metaphorical, then one must assume the entire concept of the existence of a supreme being is likely metaphorical as well.

inb4 name is archangel, had religious background, now doesn't acknowledge

[redbinder]

prophecy(n.) the foretelling or prediction of what is to come.

yeah, you're right, it's not part of its definition......so when I say the sun will rise tomorrow morning, and you see that it is true, bow down to me, your prophet

Technically it makes you a prophet. Just a really crappy one. So no bowing.

[forthenoodz]

I can't believe people still believe in fairy tales in the year 2012.

[skinnybro]

Prove that Jesus fulfilled them. You can't.

In the future, people could read any of our fiction novels and believe something of it was true, they wouldn't know otherwise.

Based on your response, I don't think that you are aware of any of the prophecies. It would have been secular historians that confirmed many of them.

[TrustMeBrahs]

that's the point. since atheists only believe in something factual.

but lettuce be real tea, if christianity is factual and everything can be proven, it wouldn't be a faith and everyone would be a "christian" since it's the only logical thing to do (don't go to hell)

and God doesn't want that. he wants a relationship with love, not one without feelings

Bro, if we actually were able to have a relationship with someone much wiser than us and see that he has done good with this world we would.

Except there is no relationship.
We walk the world alone, knowing that in the end there is only us.
We walk the world alone, thinking that this is the only life we get and we need to live it to the fullest.

There is only one person we could really trust on this planet, ourselves. And even then, there is such thing as hallucination, schizophernia, dementia.

If there was a creator, you'd be a damn fool to think that everything he created is beautiful and good. Because it's not.

And even if the creator does exist, I'm not going to worship him. I'm a free-thinking man and if I am punished for eternity so be it. I'll know that I was true to myself and true to my heart and not living a lie that man-run religions wants us to believe.

Blessed be the people who were fortunate to live under the reign of true prophets, if there were any, they had a luxury I do not see myself having in this lifetime.

Make no mistake, I try to be a good person, I will try to make the earth a better place, because a better place brings happy feelings.

Many religions have lessons in them that do indeed make the world a better place.

But we lack prophets these days, we lack miracles these days. Everything seems to be abiding the physical laws of nature, as taught by men who think they have the universe at least partially figured out.

As an agnostic, Buddhism is my religion. It doesn't name any creator and methods for worship and I'd be arrogant to think my conscious is wise enough to figure out what is the true religion.

But it is a guiding path in life, a set of rules someone has written down to make life better, I follow so as not to reinvent the wheel.

[redbinder]

Based on your response, I don't think that you are aware of any of the prophecies. It would have been secular historians that confirmed many of them.

Uhh no, seeing as how Jesus wasn't written about until well after he was dead. Any prophecies that were thus written as fulfilled were either nor verified (hearsay from fanatics) or were really easy ("was jewish")

[Commando3200]

OP, better discuss this here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

[7thbrah]

Negged

[JasperBedford]

Faith is just a nice way of saying wilful ignorance.