Vitargo post workout while cutting

[Baritonus]

And myself and hundreds of other experts would have to disagree with Alan.

Hey Alan...lets say 2000 calories per day puts you at a caloric deficit. Ok, now eat 2000 cals per day in 5 meals, but all from Skittles. Compare that to eating 2000 calories per day from turkey breast. Think you will look the same? Ummmm....no.

"If It Fits Your Macros"

You're comparing an all carb diet to an all protein diet.

I will contact all the professors I learned from and use my entire day to find all the research I have read to satisfy your request. NO..I do not think so. Please continue to eat fruit post workout.

I'm just looking for one, or two peer reviewed studies about this. If this is all readily available information, it should take five minutes tops!

[Mr.Cooper69]

And myself and hundreds of other experts would have to disagree with Alan.

Hey Alan...lets say 2000 calories per day puts you at a caloric deficit. Ok, now eat 2000 cals per day in 5 meals, but all from Skittles. Compare that to eating 2000 calories per day from turkey breast. Think you will look the same? Ummmm....no.

Alan Aragon advocates meeting calories AND macronutrients. Obviously there will be differences in TEF and other factors between macronutrients.

Vitargo is devoid of micronutrients and is an inferior source in comparison to whole food carbohydrates. End of story.

[MasterBench]

And myself and hundreds of other experts would have to disagree with Alan.

Hey Alan...lets say 2000 calories per day puts you at a caloric deficit. Ok, now eat 2000 cals per day in 5 meals, but all from Skittles. Compare that to eating 2000 calories per day from turkey breast. Think you will look the same? Ummmm....no.

That's not what he's saying..no ones macros are all carbs or protein your are misinterpreting and misquoting his research. If you take two people who are the same with equal calories and macros but different foods they will weigh the same. Look into the Twinkie diet

[sixthsense]

The funniest part about this is the inability of some people to look at what happens in actual practice and learn from it. Stop JUST reading from YOUR favorite writer, expert, researcher, whoever, and use the REAL WORLD to determine the TRUTH. For every scientist who proves one theory there is another who has proven the opposite. OK, so who do you believe? Take all of it into account and look towards those who use THE MOST EFFECTIVE LABORATORY anywhere (aka, the real world) to determine what works in PRACTICE and not just in a lab. Look to those who work with hundreds of people that have similar backgrounds and goals to yours (aka, a population of subjects that are actually significant to us...bodybuilders, athletes, etc), and see what THEY have seen happen again and again with consistency.

Don't just read a book about "How to Fly Planes," but go fly one...over and over and over.

I am outta here, but feel free to PM if you want to discuss further.

[sixthsense]

That's not what he's saying..no ones macros are all carbs or protein your are misinterpreting and misquoting his research. If you take two people who are the same with equal calories and macros but different foods they will weigh the same. Look into the Twinkie diet

Calories in and out are not the end all be all #1. Next, timing of certain types of macro are important. #3- we as athletes are not solely concerned with body WEIGHT, but body COMPOSITION.

[Mr.Cooper69]

The funniest part about this is the inability of some people to look at what happens in actual practice and learn from it. Stop JUST reading from YOUR favorite writer, expert, researcher, whoever, and use the REAL WORLD to determine the TRUTH. For every scientist who proves one theory there is another who has proven the opposite. OK, so who do you believe? Take all of it into account and look towards those who use THE MOST EFFECTIVE LABORATORY anywhere (aka, the real world) to determine what works in PRACTICE and not just in a lab. Look to those who work with hundreds of people that have similar backgrounds and goals to yours (aka, a population of subjects that are actually significant to us...bodybuilders, athletes, etc), and see what THEY have seen happen again and again with consistency.

Don't just read a book about "How to Fly Planes," but go fly one...over and over and over.

I am outta here, but feel free to PM if you want to discuss further.

Here we go again. Are in vivo studies considered to be "the fake world?" I guess resistance-trained athletes following a double blind, placebo-controlled protocol have no application to real world resistance-trained athletes in a non-placebo controlled environment? In other words, current studies are bunk because "in the real world," people will experience the benefits of placebo?

Please educate me on the REAL WORLD benefits you have seen from using vitargo postworkout instead of eating a meal. Will I take it with a grain of salt? Absolutely. But at least it will aid me in further evaluating any future "real world" claims you make.

[MasterBench]

The funniest part about this is the inability of some people to look at what happens in actual practice and learn from it. Stop JUST reading from YOUR favorite writer, expert, researcher, whoever, and use the REAL WORLD to determine the TRUTH. For every scientist who proves one theory there is another who has proven the opposite. OK, so who do you believe? Take all of it into account and look towards those who use THE MOST EFFECTIVE LABORATORY anywhere (aka, the real world) to determine what works in PRACTICE and not just in a lab. Look to those who work with hundreds of people that have similar backgrounds and goals to yours (aka, a population of subjects that are actually significant to us...bodybuilders, athletes, etc), and see what THEY have seen happen again and again with consistency.

Don't just read a book about "How to Fly Planes," but go fly one...over and over and over.

I am outta here, but feel free to PM if you want to discuss further.

Not only are many who follow iifym shredded, strong, and big I have personally dropped from 260 to 178 10% bf and at my lowest I was eating a tub of Ben and Jerry's, chicken and vegetables each day for weeks with a muti off oil and fiber supp. Not only does research point to iifym but all application has as well. I understand you were taught differently in school, I am in the same dilemma as well. Unfortunately nutrition trends and dogma in the school setting are often full of broscience.

[sixthsense]

Not only are many who follow iifym shredded, strong, and big I have personally dropped from 260 to 178 10% bf and at my lowest I was eating a tub of Ben and Jerry's, chicken and vegetables each day for weeks with a muti off oil and fiber supp. Not only does research point to iifym but all application has as well. I understand you were taught differently in school, I am in the same dilemma as well. Unfortunately nutrition trends and dogma in the school setting are often full of broscience.

Bro...do what is WORKING FOR YOU. THAT is something I ALWAYS say.

[sixthsense]

Here we go again. Are in vivo studies considered to be "the fake world?" I guess resistance-trained athletes following a double blind, placebo-controlled protocol have no application to real world resistance-trained athletes in a non-placebo controlled environment? In other words, current studies are bunk because "in the real world," people will experience the benefits of placebo?

Please educate me on the REAL WORLD benefits you have seen from using vitargo postworkout instead of eating a meal. Will I take it with a grain of salt? Absolutely. But at least it will aid me in further evaluating any future "real world" claims you make.

Ughh...bro...I do not care about Vitargo. Read the original question. NO, VITARGO WILL NOT HURT HIS ABILITY TO DROP FAT IF USED POST WORKOUT. All I am saying is PuZo is wrong in what HE was trying to imply...that the body does NOT preferentially store nutrients in muscle cells after resistance training (YES IT DOES).

I normally eat FOOD post workout as well, but stick to HIGH GI carbs, as I feel that this is a perfect time to use the power of insulin.

Read more before you start to JUMP once again (as always and always and always).

[Mr.Cooper69]

Ughh...bro...I do not care about Vitargo. Read the original question. NO, VITARGO WILL NOT HURT HIS ABILITY TO DROP FAT IF USED POST WORKOUT. All I am saying is PuZo is wrong in what HE was trying to imply...that the body does NOT preferentially store nutrients in muscle cells after resistance training (YES IT DOES).

I normally eat FOOD post workout as well, but stick to HIGH GI carbs, as I feel that this is a perfect time to use the power of insulin.

Read more before you start to JUMP once again (as always and always and always).

I've been following along with this whole conversation. No one is jumping on anything. My only response was to your false claim that high GI carbs are preferred postworkout (as well as misconstruing Aragon's research).

Insulin sensitivity is elevated far beyond some hypothetical anabolic window. The nutrient partitioning effect of exercise is persistent, and if you eat a shake full of (gasp) LOW GI ground oats, insulin will be elevated just fine. Further, you don't even need carbs to elevate insulin postworkout; protein alone will do it. Inb4 the real world =/= basic human physiology. You took classes, correct? Then surely you understand that if we based everything on anecdote rather than the scientific method, we would still be in the stone age.

[MasterBench]

Bro...do what is WORKING FOR YOU. THAT is something I ALWAYS say.

Yes and macro ratio is what determines body composition, food choices is way way below macro ratios to the point where it wouldn't matter unless you are cutting for a bb comp. Even pro bodybuilders eat what ever they want and gorge on pizza, burgers, fries anything to get their macros. A pro posted in misc a few months ago talking about this ill try and find it but regardless, there is no legitimate research which disproves iifym or supports micromanagement of macros for body comp

[sixthsense]

Yes and macro ratio is what determines body composition, food choices is way way below macro ratios to the point where it wouldn't matter unless you are cutting for a bb comp. Even pro bodybuilders eat what ever they want and gorge on pizza, burgers, fries anything to get their macros. A pro posted in misc a few months ago talking about this ill try and find it but regardless, there is no legitimate research which disproves iifym or supports micromanagement of macros for body comp

Ok my friend.

[sixthsense]

I've been following along with this whole conversation. No one is jumping on anything. My only response was to your false claim that high GI carbs are preferred postworkout (as well as misconstruing Aragon's research).

Insulin sensitivity is elevated far beyond some hypothetical anabolic window. The nutrient partitioning effect of exercise is persistent, and if you eat a shake full of (gasp) LOW GI ground oats, insulin will be elevated just fine. Further, you don't even need carbs to elevate insulin postworkout; protein alone will do it. Inb4 the real world =/= basic human physiology. You took classes, correct? Then surely you understand that if we based everything on anecdote rather than the scientific method, we would still be in the stone age.

Ok, whoever it is that you read and learn from will be disgareed with extensively by OTHER researchers.

1-Protein will not elevate insulin to the same degree as carbs and especially HIGH GI carbs...no debate
2-Higher insulin levels are preferential POST WORKOUT and for several meals after the workout.
3-The higher the post-WO spike, the less protein degradation will occur from training.

But again...DO WHAT YOU FEEL WORKS BEST FOR YOU. I will continue to do what works for me and all of my clients that put themselves in my hands because of my track record.

[wakingmalice]

I've been following along with this whole conversation. No one is jumping on anything. My only response was to your false claim that high GI carbs are preferred postworkout (as well as misconstruing Aragon's research).

Insulin sensitivity is elevated far beyond some hypothetical anabolic window. The nutrient partitioning effect of exercise is persistent, and if you eat a shake full of (gasp) LOW GI ground oats, insulin will be elevated just fine. Further, you don't even need carbs to elevate insulin postworkout; protein alone will do it. Inb4 the real world =/= basic human physiology. You took classes, correct? Then surely you understand that if we based everything on anecdote rather than the scientific method, we would still be in the stone age.

*slow clap*

[alan aragon]

Postworkout Vitargo is a hilarious practice unless you have glycogen-depleting endurance competitions spaced within a few hours of each other. When BBers take Vitargo postworkout thinking it's going to do anything for speeding up net muscle protein synthesis, then they are sorely mistaken. But they are certainly making Vitargo® $mile big, so I guess it's not all that bad .... As far as postexercise dosing goes, acute net muscle protein balance is maxed out at a protein dose of roughly 25 g. Additional carbohydrate has not been seen to further the anabolic response beyond the protein dose alone (see here). One caveat: the elderly might have a higher ceiling of dosing effectiveness due to their decreased receptivity to the anabolic effects of protein dosing.

BBers are best off having the whole or minimally refined carb source of their choice, not a micronutrient-free waste of calories like Vitargo.

[sixthsense]

Unsubscribing.

Have real people to deal with who want to learn from science AND experience.

Original poster...TAKE YOUR VITARGO WITHOUT WORRY MY FRIEND!!!!!

[MasterBench]

Ok, whoever it is that you read and learn from will be disgareed with extensively by OTHER researchers.

1-Protein will not elevate insulin to the same degree as carbs and especially HIGH GI carbs...no debate
2-Higher insulin levels are preferential POST WORKOUT and for several meals after the workout.
3-The higher the post-WO spike, the less protein degradation will occur from training.

But again...DO WHAT YOU FEEL WORKS BEST FOR YOU. I will continue to do what works for me and all of my clients that put themselves in my hands because of my track record.

No one is Arguing this, I am saying that a diet with same calories and same Macro ratio will yield same results if you eat 50g of wheat bread post workout or 50g of a carb supp or sugar in a person

[wakingmalice]

Postworkout Vitargo is a hilarious practice unless you have glycogen-depleting endurance competitions spaced within a few hours of each other. When BBers take Vitargo postworkout thinking it's going to do anything for speeding up net muscle protein synthesis, then they are sorely mistaken. But they are certainly making Vitargo® $mile big, so I guess it's not all that bad .... As far as postexercise dosing goes, acute net muscle protein balance is maxed out at a protein dose of roughly 25 g. Additional carbohydrate has not been seen to further the anabolic response beyond the protein dose alone (see here). One caveat: the elderly might have a higher ceiling of effectiveness due to their decreased receptivity to protein dosing.

BBers are best off having the whole or minimally refined carb source of their choice, not a micronutrient-free waste of calories like Vitargo.

*medium clap*

[sixthsense]

Postworkout Vitargo is a hilarious practice unless you have glycogen-depleting endurance competitions spaced within a few hours of each other. When BBers take vitargo postworkout thinking it's going to do anything for speeding up net muscle protein synthesis, then they are sorely mistaken. But they are certainly making Vitargo® $mile big, so I guess it's not all that bad .... As far as postexercise dosing goes, acute net muscle protein balance is maxed out at a protein dose of roughly 25 g. Additional carbohydrate has not been seen to further the anabolic response beyond the protein dose alone (see here). One caveat: the elderly might have a higher ceiling of effectiveness due to their decreased receptivity to protein dosing.

BBers are best off having the whole or minimally refined carb source of their choice, not a micronutrient-free waste of calories like Vitargo.

Ok Alan...respect. I prefer Karbolyn anyway : )

[sixthsense]

No one is Arguing this, I am saying that a diet with same calories and same Macro ratio will yield same results if you eat 50g of wheat bread post workout or 50g of a carb supp or sugar in a person

Not if you do so at each meal. And no, I disagree...the type of carbs eaten post workout can determine better or worse hypertrophy response to training.

PM me if you want to discuss further. Unsubbed!

[alan aragon]

One more thing - if we're gonna take the unscientific route & judge on anecdote, Ronnie Coleman alternated between steak & potatoes and chicken & white rice as his postworkout meal.

[MasterBench]

One more thing - if we're gonna take the unscientific route & judge on anecdote, Ronnie Coleman alternated between steak & potatoes and chicken & white rice as his postworkout meal.

Perhaps he blended it to turn it into Steaktargo to digest it in the "anabolic" window and filter out the fats since they aren't fast digesting lol

[mangshow]

Hey everyone, I realize this is an Old thread but I see there's a lot of knowledge and expertise in this thread. I know a lot of Professional athletes (NHL/AHL/MLB) who used vitargo in the summer time. Let's just say I worked out with a buddy of mine whos in the NHL and he was using vitargo. So I'm assuming it must be somewhat decent if a lot of athletes were using this.

I just started the Kris Gethin 12 Week Training. I'm 5'9, 177lbs and I'm trying to go down to about 160-165.

9am: 1/2 cup of Oatmeal or Spinach Omelette (3 eggwhites, spinach, tobasco)

1030am: Musclepharm Assault/Con-Cret

11am: 1H training & 30M cardio

(post-workout)12:30pm: Vitargo/Protein/Glutamine Shake (1cup Unsweetened almond choc milk, 1 tablespoon Peanut butter, handful of Chia seeds and supps)

2pm: Chicken/Fish/Steak with green/red bell peppers or Sweet potato or brown rice or broccoli or edamame etc.. any sort of veggie.

4pm: Protein shake (1cup Unsweetened Almond choc milk, 1 table spoon pbutter, chia seeds)

6-7pm: Dinner (Chicken/Fish/Steak with veggies)

I also take multivitamins and Fish Oils.

So what do you guys think? And Is it better to take Vitargo Post Workout or during my workout..

[SwolenONE]

Ive always found good postWO shakes particularly helpful when dieting and recovery can be harder due to the overall lower calories.

[jay8899]

idc if you are cutting or not..carbs post workout are always,a must,atleast 30grams...

[Swamp Dog]

idc if you are cutting or not..carbs post workout are always,a must,atleast 30grams...

I'm sorry, but may I ask why?

[rhadam]

Hey everyone, I realize this is an Old thread but I see there's a lot of knowledge and expertise in this thread. I know a lot of Professional athletes (NHL/AHL/MLB) who used vitargo in the summer time. Let's just say I worked out with a buddy of mine whos in the NHL and he was using vitargo. So I'm assuming it must be somewhat decent if a lot of athletes were using this.

I just started the Kris Gethin 12 Week Training. I'm 5'9, 177lbs and I'm trying to go down to about 160-165.

9am: 1/2 cup of Oatmeal or Spinach Omelette (3 eggwhites, spinach, tobasco)

1030am: Musclepharm Assault/Con-Cret

11am: 1H training & 30M cardio

(post-workout)12:30pm: Vitargo/Protein/Glutamine Shake (1cup Unsweetened almond choc milk, 1 tablespoon Peanut butter, handful of Chia seeds and supps)

2pm: Chicken/Fish/Steak with green/red bell peppers or Sweet potato or brown rice or broccoli or edamame etc.. any sort of veggie.

4pm: Protein shake (1cup Unsweetened Almond choc milk, 1 table spoon pbutter, chia seeds)

6-7pm: Dinner (Chicken/Fish/Steak with veggies)

I also take multivitamins and Fish Oils.

So what do you guys think? And Is it better to take Vitargo Post Workout or during my workout..

So because you have a friend in the NHL (lol) that uses it that means that there are a lot of professional athletes that also use it.

L O L

[rhadam]

idc if you are cutting or not..carbs post workout are always,a must,atleast 30grams...

Wrong.

[snorkelman]

I'm assuming it must be somewhat decent if a lot of athletes were using this.

Certain athletes may actually fall into the category of individuals where they have multiple glycogen depletion events in a single day. Your average gym rat does not fall within that category.

[richrocker]

All we really need to look at is GLUT4 translocation within muscle tissue and how resistance training affect it - it increases it. Fat cells become FAR less efficient at storing fat post-training, even when insulin is high (which will happen with Vitargo). Thus, nutrients will be partitioned towards muscle cells and NOT toward fat cells. THIS is how it works.

Gotta agree with you 100%. I am using Vitargo right now and i even tried fruits but nothing worked as using a High GI carb and vitargo is perfect for cutting or bulking..Bro pls shed us more with your abundant knowledge regarding nutrition for bodybuilding..Cheers