"weighted chins" = underhand weighted pullups?

[chazzy1864]

Back in my grade school, it was discussed whether overhand or underhand was a chin up or a pull up. I used to think pull ups were underhand. I got into a few arguments over it. After awhile I realized I was wrong and had to admit fault with friends.

I don't like admitting faults. It isn't something I do well or often. For all intents and purposes, I am perfect. So I do remember this issue all too well since, even though it was so long ago and subject to the error of my childlike ways, it is a blemish on my record that I would love to take back. Alas, it is our past that defines us.

[Ardhimas]

Use the grip that feels best on your wrists/forearms. Most people are going to use a 'narrower than shoulders' grip while in the chin-up grip position. Many people will feel strain on their wrists/forearms with the chin-up grip at first. Use smart hand positioning to avoid that problem. A few inches here or there isn't going to change the muscles being recruited in this situation.

What kind of underhand grip is ideal? I don't feel any strain having my hands touching while doing them or having them more than shoulder width apart, but I don't want to risk it just because I don't feel it yet.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

What kind of underhand grip is ideal? I don't feel any strain having my hands touching while doing them or having them more than shoulder width apart, but I don't want to risk it just because I don't feel it yet.

Just use a grip that is most comfortable with your personal arm length, flexibility and strength.

Doesn't mean you shouldn't experiment with different grips, you should. Just keep a standard "bread N butter" grip that is most natural to you to lesson the chances of nagging strains here and there in the associated joints.

There is no perfect grip for everyone.

[trev71]

I think today's post on chin up/pull up grips is scheduled to come up @ 1pm Eastern.

I may even start it.

[Engineer_Guy]

Hm...
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../AsChinup.html

Hm....
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../WtPullup.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lati.../WtChinup.html

"Step up and grasp bar with overhand wide grip."

exrx.net doesn't seem to have a standard, it just says overhand for both. If you look at other variations for pull/chin ups it will list some as underhand and some as overhand.

[chazzy1864]

Hm....
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/.../WtPullup.html
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/Lati.../WtChinup.html

"Step up and grasp bar with overhand wide grip."

exrx.net doesn't seem to have a standard, it just says overhand for both. If you look at other variations for pull/chin ups it will list some as underhand and some as overhand.

Both say to pull the chin over the bar as well.

[Engineer_Guy]

Both say to pull the chin over the bar as well.

Who woulda thought?

[Tyciol]

Hey guys: if you do pull ups on rings or rotating handles and are able to move from a prone grip to a supine grip, what do you call them?

nobody calls a chin-up a chin-up based on you putting your chin above the bar.

Yes they do. Any idiot can see that's how it's originated and how anyone introduced to fitness thinks of it until people introduce their bull****.

I would guess that you are guessing that that's where it came from.

It's not a guess, it's a common sense deduction.

One thing about supinated pulls is that your arm alignment allows you to pull yourself with the bar in front of you, where pronated grip allows you to pull easier if you are more underneath the bar. That is following the notion that your pronated grip is wider than your supinated grip, which is more practical for the way our arms are aligned.

I agree with you about this. You can generally pull higher with a supine grip. That's why it's the easier grip for doing chin-ups, and why people default to thinking of that grip for them, and why people have ended up associating it exclusively.

They wouldn't say that. Since so few could do them, chin-up/pull-up was by personal choice to fulfill the "somehow get your head over the bar" requirement.

Yeah, that's what I thought =/

Sensible? Hrmmmph. It was the 70s -- nothing sensible about that. The baseline used, still today, for the Presidential Fitness awards is from 1985. That's when it was decided that an "average 50th percentile kid" age 7-9 realistically could do about 1 or 2. In the Seventies, we had to do like... 53 of them. Uphill.

Kids had to do 53 chins to ace the challenge?


The term-bickering makes me think of Nicu Vlad. He didn't even have a name for "romanian deadlift", he just did them.

it's far more important to ridiculously argue about what an exercise should be called than to post updated progress pics of what the exercise actually did

No, it's not more important, it's just easier. I'm lazy. I'm not deluded about this.

ExtremistPullup was told he was wrong to call pullups pullups.

Wrong. Your memory fails you strawmanner. I said it's wrong to say supine-grip pull-ups are not pull-ups. I also said that since EP is able to get his chin over the bar using the prone grip, he's also doing a chinup.

EP's being the strongest man in the world at pull-ups doesn't have anything to do with language, and he's intelligent enough not to argue that. I doubt he even gives a ****, unlike you guys. TBH I don't either, I train both grips and call both pull-ups, big whoop.

Back in my grade school, it was discussed whether overhand or underhand was a chin up or a pull up. I used to think pull ups were underhand. I got into a few arguments over it. After awhile I realized I was wrong and had to admit fault with friends. I don't like admitting faults. It isn't something I do well or often. For all intents and purposes, I am perfect. So I do remember this issue all too well since, even though it was so long ago and subject to the error of my childlike ways, it is a blemish on my record that I would love to take back. Alas, it is our past that defines us.

You probably just gave in to peer pressure. How exactly did you realize you were wrong? lol

I think today's post on chin up/pull up grips is scheduled to come up @ 1pm Eastern. I may even start it.

Looking forward to it bro.

What kind of underhand grip is ideal?

Random guess is whatever lets you do the most reps/weight? My door's not wide and I haven't hooked up the wider lever bar yet so am limited to narrow.

[chazzy1864]

So your speculation is fact in the exercise industry. Hrmm....

[Tyciol]

No, I just have faith in what seems obvious. The best way to resolve this I think would be whoever can find the oldest reference (like a book) that supports the usage.

I don't expect to win with this one, but it's a place to start. Strength Training Anatomy, First Edition, 2001, by Frederic Delavier:



I've no doubt someone can come back with a counter-example from an earlier date which strictly defines chins as supine and pulls as prone. That's fine, I just need to know what to beat. I forget how long ExRx has been around but I know those guys have been using the terms based on non-grip criteria in their earlier days. Lately they caved to the pressure though, wusses.

I'll also clarify: I don't like the way Delavier defines it because he says to pull until your eyes are level with the bar instead of the chin. Although he's showing it on curved handles so I dunno. "Behind the neck chinup" is like an oxymoron to me. It's merely to illustrate that this hasn't been universally or consistently defined.

[SquatTilYouDrop]

EP's being the strongest man in the world at pull-ups doesn't have anything to do with language,

lulz, I'm sure your language skillz tower over his and you have far more credibility in the pullup world than he does.

Who are we to believe, a world record holder on pullups or a weak little sh*t who trolls pullup threads at every opportunity for attention?

[chazzy1864]

I forget how long ExRx has been around but I know those guys have been using the terms based on non-grip criteria in their earlier days. Lately they caved to the pressure though, wusses.

Or maybe they felt they were wrong and have since corrected themselves. You know.... that always being a possibility.

[Tyciol]

lulz, I'm sure your language skillz tower over his

This issue has nothing to do with overall language skill, EP may be more well-spoken than me. This is more an issue of slang and terminology preference. You have a tendency to inflate arguments into bigger than they need to be.

and you have far more credibility in the pullup world than he does.

Credibility is irrelevant. EP is obviously the guy to go to for tips on how to get better at pull-ups. But being the best at something has nothing to do with historical usage. If the best football/soccer player in the world said "we're going to call this zebraball" I'm not sure it'd catch on.

Admittedly, chin=supi and pull=pro IS catching on. It's popular and people like having different names for things.

Though I'm wondering: why aren't we calling supinated-grip lat pulldowns "chin-downs"? The neutral/hammer grip, and the rotating grip, are additional problems you continue to ignore.

Who are we to believe, a world record holder on pullups or a weak little sh*t who trolls pullup threads at every opportunity for attention?

Believe whoever makes the best case for the usage. You're degrading the dispute to a simple ad hominem thing. From my perspective, you're the one who appears to be trolling, via name-calling and trying to upset me, when I'm not even sure you legitimately disagree with the reasoning.

IMO, regardless of how supine someone's grip is, it's not a chin-up if they're not getting their chin to the bar. Regardless of how prone someone's grip is, it's a chin-up if you get your chin to the bar.

Or, if there is no bar, level with the hands or whatever.

The importance of pulling high is stressed by a lot of people. Getting the chin over the bar is obviously what the movement is named after, I have no idea why this is being argued. Make another case for the meaning, if you think you have one.

Or maybe they felt they were wrong and have since corrected themselves. You know.... that always being a possibility.

Possible but I doubt it, if you have any memory for how they used to define chin-ups/pull-ups, it had to do with the orientation of the torso or the path of the elbows. TBH I didn't understand their reasoning very well and didn't like it, but it was really distinct and they had elaborate explanations explaining why.

[tomsfish]

No, I just have faith in what seems obvious. The best way to resolve this I think would be whoever can find the oldest reference (like a book) that supports the usage.

I don't expect to win with this one, but it's a place to start. Strength Training Anatomy, First Edition, 2001, by Frederic Delavier:



I've no doubt someone can come back with a counter-example from an earlier date which strictly defines chins as supine and pulls as prone. That's fine, I just need to know what to beat. I forget how long ExRx has been around but I know those guys have been using the terms based on non-grip criteria in their earlier days. Lately they caved to the pressure though, wusses.

I'll also clarify: I don't like the way Delavier defines it because he says to pull until your eyes are level with the bar instead of the chin. Although he's showing it on curved handles so I dunno. "Behind the neck chinup" is like an oxymoron to me. It's merely to illustrate that this hasn't been universally or consistently defined.

awsome google.

you should try those.

[mrmrbill]

The term-bickering makes me think of Nicu Vlad. He didn't even have a name for "romanian deadlift", he just did them.

Vlad was trying to set a good example for ya. Would be a shame if his effort was for naught.

[GeneralSerpant]

Who calls a pull-up a reverse chin-up? The point being, why would you even argue for it as if you were practicing such at the time?

I feel you only stand to generalize the movement as to suggest it has no distinctions by modern attention.

[Tyciol]

Vlad was trying to set a good example for ya. Would be a shame if his effort was for naught.

I agree, that's what I want to name it Vladlift after him. But the whole rigid dichtomy-defenders are funny.

Who calls a pull-up a reverse chin-up?

I'm really not sure what you're asking here, or why.

The point being, why would you even argue for it as if you were practicing such at the time?

Since when does one have to practice something to argue about what to call it? BRB wiping out a race so I can define genocide.

I feel you only stand to generalize the movement as to suggest it has no distinctions by modern attention.

I don't suggest it has no distinctions, it clearly does. They are also good distinctions to make. They should just be made using unique terms. When other terms have prior use, we should just go with the first sensible known use. Not the most popular nonsensible one.

[GeneralSerpant]

So, are you planning to win a peace prize for coming up with that analogy? Showing archaic classification charts doesn't support your claims about practices you aren't involved in.

[Tyciol]

What analogy? Vladlift? What classification charts are you talking about?

No claims about the practice are being made, merely observations about what words mean.

For example, check out this fun I just found:

[mrmrbill]

The term-bickering makes me think of Nicu Vlad. He didn't even have a name for "romanian deadlift", he just did them.

Vlad was trying to set a good example for ya. Would be a shame if his effort was for naught.

I agree, that's what I want to name it Vladlift after him.

Alas, Vlad's effort was for naught. Ya kinda missed your own point, chief. And Vlad's. He wasn't hung up on names -- he just did them.

[tomsfish]

Alas, Vlad's effort was for naught. Ya kinda missed your own point, chief. And Vlad's. He wasn't hung up on names -- he just did them.

i dont know about this just doing thing,it sounds kinda hard.

[Tyciol]

Vlad and his coach weren't hung up on names because it was an assistance exercise. They obviously recognized the value of having names for exercises that people competed in, since the names were to be associated with criteria for competition, what with him being an Olympic weightlifter and all.



OMG, overhand 'chinning' in 1945!

Still waiting for these classic "chinning must be supine" legendary definitions people keep referring to. Just admit that someone invented the distinction because populations are stupid, and it'l end.

[tomsfish]

awsome google,you should try doing those.

[mrmrbill]

i dont know about this just doing thing,it sounds kinda hard.

LoL. Well Tom, apparently only you hold the key to Tyc's pull/chin efforts. Lucky you. [ shrugs shoulders ]

Tom you're pissing me off, you're my goal now, if you make a vid showing your max rep of chins I'll best it in a year.

This will be an interesting year.

[johncrazyk123]

No, I just have faith in what seems obvious. The best way to resolve this I think would be whoever can find the oldest reference (like a book) that supports the usage.

I don't expect to win with this one, but it's a place to start. Strength Training Anatomy, First Edition, 2001, by Frederic Delavier:



I've no doubt someone can come back with a counter-example from an earlier date which strictly defines chins as supine and pulls as prone. That's fine, I just need to know what to beat. I forget how long ExRx has been around but I know those guys have been using the terms based on non-grip criteria in their earlier days. Lately they caved to the pressure though, wusses.

I'll also clarify: I don't like the way Delavier defines it because he says to pull until your eyes are level with the bar instead of the chin. Although he's showing it on curved handles so I dunno. "Behind the neck chinup" is like an oxymoron to me. It's merely to illustrate that this hasn't been universally or consistently defined.

Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.

[tomsfish]

LoL. Well Tom, apparently only you hold the key to Tyc's pull/chin efforts. Lucky you. [ shrugs shoulders ]



This will be an interesting year.

yea its kinda funny,only took him 8 years here to decide to get motivated to do them.at that rate ill have to post a vid when im 71.of course it might be a hologram by then.

[GeneralSerpant]

Tyciol I haven't gone out of my way to read your Workout logs. Do you attempt to work your lats with your body-weight?

[Tyciol]

Asperger disorder, is an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) that is characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction, alongside restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.

Yeah I pretty much just say I'm an Aspie at this point. It avoids arguments. I don't really care, I don't look down on them.

Better Q is why people think asserting a person is X label is at all a valid counter-part to their arguments.

Some logic here too: weightlifting is about restricted and repetitive patterns of movement, and the internet naturally attracts people who have difficulty with IRL social interaction. Hell, prior to the net, guys like Charles Atlas targetted those folks via comic books.

yea its kinda funny,only took him 8 years here to decide to get motivated to do them.

More of your inane assumptions old man. I get motivated all the time, but then I get depressed, distracted, injured, etc. Maybe getting pissed at idiots like you who talk down to people in all-or-nothing terms will bring me out of said funks, who knows.

Now, if you bros are done stroking your e-cocks by picking on people, perhaps you can find more productive ways to entertain yourself. As pathetic as I may be, my exercises in writing are an attempt to improve my mind and person. I have no idea what you guys are trying to do here.

Actually: by default I am going to assume you guys are both weaker than I am, because that makes me feel good. Arguing with you feels like a waste of time. Much as I rage at some of the other guys, they at least have pics or vids up now and then demonstrating that they're actually strong. It makes me more tolerant of their bull**** when they clearly have values I want to emulate.

Do you attempt to work your lats with your body-weight?

Yes.

Now let's get back on topic. I have my crucible in my sig for a reason. If you want to bash my lack of effort, please do so on the training blog and stop using my posts on the exercise forum as a reason to derail threads.

OP hardflex already stopped responding, not even sure what the point of continuing this is, I already won the argument by showing evidence of early term usage. I'll keep it on hand to win all future arguments.

[Farley1324]

Does any one even read Tyciol's posts?

No.

[mrmrbill]

Now, if you bros are done stroking your e-cocks by picking on people, perhaps you can find more productive ways to entertain yourself. As pathetic as I may be, my exercises in writing are an attempt to improve my mind and person. I have no idea what you guys are trying to do here.

Some practical experience would lend credibility to the verbosity. Tyc, no one's picking on you for lack of anything better to do. I would actually like to see you succeed at your physical training goals, whatever those may be. Yet for the amount of keyboard time that you spend wall-o'-texting about chinups, you could simply do a few. "Put your money where your mouth is..." quaint as this colloquialism may be, contains a great deal of truth.

... stop using my posts on the exercise forum as a reason to derail threads.

You're correct. You derail threads sufficiently on your own. No need for any extra help.