Bulking Nutrition Plan! Please Help!

[josef1kr]

I'm starting a bulking routine in September and I have the workouts all planned out and I feel like I also have a pretty solid nutrition plan. If you've had good experience with bulking please critique it. I appreciate any comments good or bad!

Height: 6 foot 1 inch
Weight: 165 pounds
Age: 22
Estimated Calorie Maintenance: 2975
Goal: Gain 0.5-1 pound of muscle a week - 16-20+ pounds in a year

6:00AM - Pre-Workout Breakfast - 500 calories - 37g protein

Protein Shake
1 scoop ON 100% Whey Protein
2.5g ON Creatine
8 oz. 1/2% Milk
1/2 cup oatmeal
1 Banana

1 Opti-men Multivitamin + 1 Fish Oil Pill

8:30AM - Post-Workout Shake - 300 calories - 32g protein

1 scoop ON 100% Whey Protein
2.5g ON Creatine
8 oz. 1/2% Milk
1 Banana

10:00AM - Morning Snack - 400 calories - 32g protein

1 c 2% Cottage Cheese
2.5 oz Blueberries
1 c Whole Wheat Cheerios

12:30PM - Lunch - 775 calories - 37g protein

Sandwich - 320 calories - 25g protein
2 Slices Whole Wheat Bread
3 oz Turkey Lunch Meat
1 Slice 2% Milk American Cheese
1 tbs. Miracle Whip Light
Lettuce

Extras - 455 calories - 12g protein
Sun Chips
1 apple
3 oz. Carrots
8 oz. 1/2% Milk

1 Fish Oil Pill

3:30PM - Afternoon Snack - 340 calories - 40g protein

5 oz Light Tuna
2 tbs Miracle Whip Light
14 Wheat Thin Crackers

6:00PM - Dinner - Between 500-1000 calories - 40+g protein

Dinners are different every night, but they always include a quality source of protein and veggies. I also always drink a big glass of milk.

1 Fish Oil Pill

10:00PM - Before Bed Shake - 300 calories - 40g protein

1 Scoop Casein Protein
16 oz. 1/2% Milk

Daily Total: Between 3115-3615 calories - 250+g protein - Pretty close to 50/30/20 of Carb/Protein/Fat

I am open to ANY suggestions, but please have some kind of background or experience with bulking nutrition!

[WonderPug]

Why are you eating 7 times per day? Is it for a "metabolic advantage"?
Why are you consuming casein before bed? Is it to "prevent catabolism overnight"?
Why are you using ratios to determine your macronutrient intake?
Why is your dietary fat intake so low?
Why are you so dependent on protein supplements?
Why are you eating so much tuna? Five ounces is nearly at the high end of the safe weekly consumption level.

[sunchienlee]

^^ This, and it looks like you are using ratio instead actually using grams. It implies that you have not yet read the stickies.

I would start with the stickies.

[joelash302]

Could be more neurotic, but not by much.

[andrerox80]

Why are you eating 7 times per day? Is it for a "metabolic advantage"?
Why are you consuming casein before bed? Is it to "prevent catabolism overnight"?
Why are you using ratios to determine your macronutrient intake?
Why is your dietary fat intake so low?
Why are you so dependent on protein supplements?
Why are you eating so much tuna? Five ounces is nearly at the high end of the safe weekly consumption level.

all good questions. and also, why do you seem to only care abt g of protein and not the other macro's?

[josef1kr]

Why are you eating 7 times per day? Is it for a "metabolic advantage"?
Why are you consuming casein before bed? Is it to "prevent catabolism overnight"?
Why are you using ratios to determine your macronutrient intake?
Why is your dietary fat intake so low?
Why are you so dependent on protein supplements?
Why are you eating so much tuna? Five ounces is nearly at the high end of the safe weekly consumption level.

1) I'm eating 7 meals per day because when trying to build muscle you need to give your body a constant supply of nutrients to grow all day. Many articles I've read all recommend getting 30+ grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours.

2)Casein protein is slow digesting and it's recommended to take either between meals or right before bed so your body has a constant source of protein to digest over an extended period of time. And yes, it is also great for preventing catabolism overnight.

3)I'm not specifically using ratio to determine my macronutritent intake. What I did was build a nutrition plan according to everything I've learned about bulking and building muscle, plugged it into my nutrition planner and it gave me the percentage of carb/protein/fat or the total calories. Many articles I've read recommend either a 50/30/20 ratio or 40/40/20 ratio for building muscle, so that's what I ended up with. I didn't use the ratio to determine my nutrients intake, I decided my nutrient intake and then figured out what that ratio ended up being. Also, again from many articles I've read, they suggest you build your nutrition plan around your total protein intake for the day. If you are getting 30+ grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours, the rest of your intake can be made up of carbs and fat, and it should be fairly balanced. As with mine, I made my plan around protein and it all came out to be 50/30/20, which many bodybuilding article recommend is optimal for bulking and putting on muscle mass.

4)Again, 20% of your total daily nutrients should come from fat from what I've learned. If you want to bulk with minimal fat gains, this is how I've been told to do it.

5)I'm not that dependent on protein supplements in my opinion. They say the best pre and post workout nutrients you can get is a fast digesting protein, so a whey protein shake before and after I workout is optimal. The only other protein drink I have during the day is right before bed and its a casein protein shake, and as stated above it's the best thing you can do to provide slow digesting protein to your body and prevent catabolism over night.

6)Yes my weekly tuna intake would be pretty high following this plan everyday, but if you notice I'm eating light tuna which has less than a 1/3 of the mercury content that white tuna and other canned larger fish contain. They say that light tuna is made up of a much smaller sized fish which contains much less mercury than white tuna, which is a much larger fish. Even if I eat five ounces of light tuna every day, I'm not getting any more mercury than if I was eating two, five ounce cans of white tuna or salmon all week.

I feel like I've really done my research on these things, and even though there will always be articles saying one thing or the other against the others opinion, I feel like I've read enough on each topic to be able to make my own personal conclusions. I'm not exactly sure if you were posting questions to my nutrition plan asking for more information for yourself, or if you were trying to help me by critiquing what I've posted, but feel free to comment on any of the things I talked about above. Any discussion is welcome.

[WonderPug]

^ Let's see:

1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. Wrong.
4. Wrong.
5. Wrong.
6. Wrong.

I think you better do some better researching. For example, in terms of meal frequency, I suggest you read about Leangains. I also suggest you read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
This study shows there was no difference in weight loss between subjects with high/low meal frequencies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494
Evidence supports that meal frequency has nothing to do with energy in the subjects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319656
Yet again, no difference in energy in the subjects compared to 2 meals/d to 6 meals/d.

[peanut-butter]

1) I'm eating 7 meals per day because when trying to build muscle you need to give your body a constant supply of nutrients to grow all day. Many articles I've read all recommend getting 30+ grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours.
2)Casein protein is slow digesting and it's recommended to take either between meals or right before bed so your body has a constant source of protein to digest over an extended period of time. And yes, it is also great for preventing catabolism overnight.
3)I'm not specifically using ratio to determine my macronutritent intake. What I did was build a nutrition plan according to everything I've learned about bulking and building muscle, plugged it into my nutrition planner and it gave me the percentage of carb/protein/fat or the total calories. Many articles I've read recommend either a 50/30/20 ratio or 40/40/20 ratio for building muscle, so that's what I ended up with. I didn't use the ratio to determine my nutrients intake, I decided my nutrient intake and then figured out what that ratio ended up being. Also, again from many articles I've read, they suggest you build your nutrition plan around your total protein intake for the day. If you are getting 30+ grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours, the rest of your intake can be made up of carbs and fat, and it should be fairly balanced. As with mine, I made my plan around protein and it all came out to be 50/30/20, which many bodybuilding article recommend is optimal for bulking and putting on muscle mass.
4)Again, 20% of your total daily nutrients should come from fat from what I've learned. If you want to bulk with minimal fat gains, this is how I've been told to do it.
5)I'm not that dependent on protein supplements in my opinion. They say the best pre and post workout nutrients you can get is a fast digesting protein, so a whey protein shake before and after I workout is optimal. The only other protein drink I have during the day is right before bed and its a casein protein shake, and as stated above it's the best thing you can do to provide slow digesting protein to your body and prevent catabolism over night.
6)Yes my weekly tuna intake would be pretty high following this plan everyday, but if you notice I'm eating light tuna which has less than a 1/3 of the mercury content that white tuna and other canned larger fish contain. They say that light tuna is made up of a much smaller sized fish which contains much less mercury that white tuna, which is a much larger fish. Even if I eat five ounces of light tuna every day, I'm not getting any more mercury than if I was eating two, five ounce cans of white tuna or salmon all week.

I feel like I've really done my research on these things, and even though there will always be articles saying one thing or the other against the others opinion, I feel like I've read enough on each topic to be able to make my own personal conclusions. I'm not exactly sure if you were posting questions to my nutrition plan asking for more information for yourself, or if you were trying to help me by critiquing what I've posted, but feel free to comment on any of the things I talked about above. Any discussion is welcome.

Couldn't have asked for a better response

[sunchienlee]

Brotastic op!!!

[AdamWW]

1) I'm eating 7 meals per day because when trying to build muscle you need to give your body a constant supply of nutrients to grow all day. Many articles I've read all recommend getting 30+ grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours.

2)Casein protein is slow digesting and it's recommended to take either between meals or right before bed so your body has a constant source of protein to digest over an extended period of time. And yes, it is also great for preventing catabolism overnight.

3)I'm not specifically using ratio to determine my macronutritent intake. What I did was build a nutrition plan according to everything I've learned about bulking and building muscle, plugged it into my nutrition planner and it gave me the percentage of carb/protein/fat or the total calories. Many articles I've read recommend either a 50/30/20 ratio or 40/40/20 ratio for building muscle, so that's what I ended up with. I didn't use the ratio to determine my nutrients intake, I decided my nutrient intake and then figured out what that ratio ended up being. Also, again from many articles I've read, they suggest you build your nutrition plan around your total protein intake for the day. If you are getting 30+ grams of protein every 2.5-3 hours, the rest of your intake can be made up of carbs and fat, and it should be fairly balanced. As with mine, I made my plan around protein and it all came out to be 50/30/20, which many bodybuilding article recommend is optimal for bulking and putting on muscle mass.

4)Again, 20% of your total daily nutrients should come from fat from what I've learned. If you want to bulk with minimal fat gains, this is how I've been told to do it.

5)I'm not that dependent on protein supplements in my opinion. They say the best pre and post workout nutrients you can get is a fast digesting protein, so a whey protein shake before and after I workout is optimal. The only other protein drink I have during the day is right before bed and its a casein protein shake, and as stated above it's the best thing you can do to provide slow digesting protein to your body and prevent catabolism over night.

6)Yes my weekly tuna intake would be pretty high following this plan everyday, but if you notice I'm eating light tuna which has less than a 1/3 of the mercury content that white tuna and other canned larger fish contain. They say that light tuna is made up of a much smaller sized fish which contains much less mercury that white tuna, which is a much larger fish. Even if I eat five ounces of light tuna every day, I'm not getting any more mercury than if I was eating two, five ounce cans of white tuna or salmon all week.

I feel like I've really done my research on these things, and even though there will always be articles saying one thing or the other against the others opinion, I feel like I've read enough on each topic to be able to make my own personal conclusions. I'm not exactly sure if you were posting questions to my nutrition plan asking for more information for yourself, or if you were trying to help me by critiquing what I've posted, but feel free to comment on any of the things I talked about above. Any discussion is welcome.

You should work for any number of fitness magazines.

I might also add that you should be consuming your pure whey hydrolysate+30g of dextrose in water immediately post-workout. Also, don't forget to sip BCAA's during workout or you will burn through your muscles. OH, and let us not forget that you need to set your alarm for 2AM or so to drink a protein shake.

[josef1kr]

^ Let's see:

1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. Wrong.
4. Wrong.
5. Wrong.
6. Wrong.

I think you better do some better researching. For example, in terms of meal frequency, I suggest you read about Leangains. I also suggest you read:

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. All of the articles you just posted have to do with meal frequency and all I was posting was my nutrition plan to bulk up and build muscle mass. None of the questions you asked, except for eating 7 times a day, had anything to do with the information you are posting now. And as far as you thinking I'm wrong on all my other responses, I'd like to know where you are getting your information to argue against mine. Like I said, I've read A LOT of articles on all of those topics, and yes I've found articles disagreeing with what I stated above, but I've read a lot more that go along with it.

[psychodiver9]

^ Let's see:

1. Wrong.
2. Wrong.
3. Wrong.
4. Wrong.
5. Wrong.
6. Wrong.

I think you better do some better researching. For example, in terms of meal frequency, I suggest you read about Leangains. I also suggest you read:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
This study shows there was no difference in weight loss between subjects with high/low meal frequencies.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494
Evidence supports that meal frequency has nothing to do with energy in the subjects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11319656
Yet again, no difference in energy in the subjects compared to 2 meals/d to 6 meals/d.

I was about to post this exact same thing

[joelash302]

I have no idea what point you are trying to make. All of the articles you just posted have to do with meal frequency and all I was posting was my nutrition plan to bulk up and build muscle mass. None of the questions you asked, except for eating 7 times a day, had anything to do with the information you are posting now. And as far as you thinking I'm wrong on all my other responses, I'd like to know where you are getting your information to argue against mine. Like I said, I've read A LOT of articles on all of those topics, and yes I've found articles disagreeing with what I stated above, but I've read a lot more that go along with it.

Men's Health, Muscle and Fitness?

[josef1kr]

You should work for any number of fitness magazines.

I might also add that you should be consuming your pure whey hydrolysate+30g of dextrose in water immediately post-workout. Also, don't forget to sip BCAA's during workout or you will burn through your muscles. OH, and let us not forget that you need to set your alarm for 2AM or so to drink a protein shake.

Thanks for the tips and compliment! I've also read articles mentioning both those things haha (I really need to find something else to do). The during workout drink is definitely something I'm going to try, but I don't think I'm committed enough to wake up in the middle of the night for another protein drink. Even though I know it would benefit me, it's a little too much for me both mentally and financially.

[josef1kr]

Men's Health, Muscle and Fitness?

I've read articles on both of these sites. What specific information are you referring to that I've posted that you feel is so inaccurate according to these websites. Everybody just agreeing with the "wrong, wrong, wrong" guy isn't really helping much by just saying he's right. I'm looking for actual information and articles that actually go against what I posted. Honestly, I have no problem being proven wrong, I just prefer being shown what and where I was wrong instead of people just shooting things down.

[belairdfence99]

Thanks for the tips and compliment! I've also read articles mentioning both those things haha (I really need to find something else to do). The during workout drink is definitely something I'm going to try, but I don't think I'm committed enough to wake up in the middle of the night for another protein drink. Even though I know it would benefit me, it's a little to much for me both mentally and financially.

You're on the right track with your bulking plan but your logic behind your meals as to why you're eating them needs some work..

[AVandelay]

Thanks for the tips and compliment! I've also read articles mentioning both those things haha (I really need to find something else to do). The during workout drink is definitely something I'm going to try, but I don't think I'm committed enough to wake up in the middle of the night for another protein drink. Even though I know it would benefit me, it's a little too much for me both mentally and financially.

Uh oh

[vitornoob]

If everybody is agreeing that is wrong, it is wrong...have u read the stickies and the sources from Pug?

so, read then and you will be A LOT happy (:

[josef1kr]

Uh oh

???

[tsrobfl]

???

None of that B.S you are doing is necessary. It is what is called BROSCIENCE. Read the stickied threads in this section.

[josef1kr]

If everybody is agreeing that is wrong, it is wrong...have u read the stickies and the sources from Pug?

so, read then and you will be A LOT happy (:

Haha that's some great logic right there. "If everybody is agreeing that is wrong, it is wrong." Well alright then, that solves it! And not everybody is saying it is wrong, I have just as many people saying it's right as I do saying it's wrong, which is a perfect example of how nutrition and fitness works. Everybody has there own opinions and their own beliefs on how certain things work. I'm not exactly sure about the stickies and sources from pugs are because I'm new to this site. If you could point the ones out that are relevant to what you are trying to tell me I'm so wrong about I'd appreciate it.

[psychodiver9]

Haha that's some great logic right there. "If everybody is agreeing that is wrong, it is wrong." Well alright then, that solves it! And not everybody is saying it is wrong, I have just as many people saying it's right as I do saying it's wrong, which is a perfect example of how nutrition and fitness works. Everybody has there own opinions and their own beliefs on how certain things work. I'm not exactly sure about the stickies and sources from pugs are because I'm new to this site. If you could point the ones out that are relevant to what you are trying to tell me I'm so wrong about I'd appreciate it.

They are called stickies because they are stuck at the top of the page

[vitornoob]

have you at LEAST read what was given to you?

[josef1kr]

have you at LEAST read what was given to you?

Yes, and none of it was relevant to the 6 questions i answered. Except for the eating 7 meals a day.

[josef1kr]

None of that B.S you are doing is necessary. It is what is called BROSCIENCE. Read the stickied threads in this section.

I know that a lot of body building information is based off of individuals experience and is not exactly the most valid, but most of the stuff I've been reading is from books and other online documents that have studies attached to them. How can you say that all of what I was posting was B.S.? Most of the stuff is common sense.

[joelash302]

So, essentially you seem to be confident you are right simply because it was the first thing you read. The info pug put up is more than adequate to clean up all of your misconceptions if you had an iota of deductive reasoning capabilities instead of stomping your feet really hard yelling that your question isn't being answered in the way you see fit.

Maybe you should just go lift for a while and then see how long you last on your overly obsessive routine.

[vitornoob]

Yes, and none of it was relevant to the 6 questions i answered. Except for the eating 7 meals a day.

no, you have not

[josef1kr]

So, essentially you seem to be confident you are right simply because it was the first thing you read. The info pug put up is more than adequate to clean up all of your misconceptions if you had an iota of deductive reasoning capabilities instead of stomping your feet really hard yelling that your question isn't being answered in the way you see fit.

Maybe you should just go lift for a while and then see how long you last on your overly obsessive routine.

First thing I read? You have no idea how many different articles I've read, hours or reading over a period of weeks. I already agreed that there are articles out there that go against what I posted, but there are a lot of other articles that support it also. I just read a couple of your worshiped stickies at the top of the nutrition page, and the first one I read already went a long with a lot of the nutrition guidelines I'm following. How would you recommend I eat during a bulk and heavy compound lifting routine then?

[AVandelay]

How would you recommend I eat during a bulk and heavy compound lifting routine then?

However you'd like, provided you hit your macronutrient and micronutrient intake targets for the day and end with a reasonable caloric surplus. Whether you do it in seven meals or one won't make a difference in your body composition. Whether you drink your casein at night or right when you wake up (or not at all) won't make a difference either.

[tsrobfl]

I know that a lot of body building information is based off of individuals experience and is not exactly the most valid, but most of the stuff I've been reading is from books and other online documents that have studies attached to them. How can you say that all of what I was posting was B.S.? Most of the stuff is common sense.

It's not that it won't work to get you to achieve your goals, it's that it is unnecessary. The articles you read are pushed by supplement companies in order to sell their products. Protein digestion speed is irrelevant to body composition. You won't go catabolic overnight if you don't eat casein. Just because most bodybuilders do it doesn't mean it was the reason they achieved their goals. Correlation does not equal causation. We are just trying to spare you time and money on unnecessary protocols and supplements.