Lol @ people who think free will exists

[LegosInMyEgos]

You can't believe in cause and effect while simultaneously believing in free will.

Either you have to disregard a cause and effect relationship in the universe, or you have to accept to accept that your actions are predetermined.

If your actions(effects) are caused, then there is only 1 way you can respond to any situation.

[rotatoo]

teen misc ----->>>>

[LegosInMyEgos]

teen misc ----->>>>

<------------ douche misc

[LegosInMyEgos]

well i guess the only thing to do now is to stop worrying about life and be happy

Certain people can't be happy though.

[MetalManuel]

I agree OP, but who gives a ****? We still experience the illusion of free will.

[LegosInMyEgos]

I agree OP, but who gives a ****? We still experience the illusion of free will.

Meh, it's still kinda depressing even if we have the illusion our actions are free.

[razor ramone]

You can't believe in cause and effect while simultaneously believing in free will.

Either you have to disregard a cause and effect relationship in the universe, or you have to accept to accept that your actions are predetermined.

If your actions(effects) are caused, then there is only 1 way you can respond to any situation.

Why are you lolling at them? You just said, they have no free will. They have no control over believing in free will.

If you dont believe in free will then you have no reason to lol/judge anyone for anything.

[LegosInMyEgos]

Why are you lolling at them? You just said, they have no free will. They have no control over believing in free will.

If you dont believe in free will then you have no reason to lol/judge anyone for anything.

It was to get their attention.

It's obviously not their fault.

Nothing is anyone's fault.

[MetalManuel]

Meh, it's still kinda depressing even if we have the illusion our actions are free.

That's life, son. What we want and how things actually are are two completely different things, don't let it get to you. Sometimes when i think of death i get chills because I know that will be the end.

Why are you lolling at them? You just said, they have no free will. They have no control over believing in free will.

If you dont believe in free will then you have no reason to lol/judge anyone for anything.

Clearly you don't understand this lol if this is your response, your comprehension level is very low.

[djfuzzy]

Nobody forced you to make this ****gy thread, OP.

Free will demonstrated/10.


Riiiiiight?

[wulpurgis]

You can't believe in cause and effect while simultaneously believing in free will.

Either you have to disregard a cause and effect relationship in the universe, or you have to accept to accept that your actions are predetermined.

If your actions(effects) are caused, then there is only 1 way you can respond to any situation.

yes you can..... it's call indeterminacy or underdeterminacy.

if we had perfect knowledge, we could perfectly predict people's behavior and draw up physical laws to explain how they behave.

we don't, so we can't.

we can assign probabilities to outcomes, since we have a little bit too little information to be absolutely certain.

and sometimes we can't really accurately assign and probabilities because we just don't have enough information.


so i can believe individuals are autonomous and gonna do waht they do for reasons that can all be explained, while not knowing what it is that they are exactly going to do...


good enough for me to conclude they have free will, as in they are free to do whatever, while concluding that since i can make sense of it after, i could in principle have predicted in beforehand!

*nerd boner*

[STPinPA]

You can't believe in cause and effect while simultaneously believing in free will.

Either you have to disregard a cause and effect relationship in the universe, or you have to accept to accept that your actions are predetermined.

If your actions(effects) are caused, then there is only 1 way you can respond to any situation.

This is not true. Each entity responds in a different matter due to the uniqueness of Free Will or choice.

In any and every situation you have a choice nobody can force you to make the choice by taking the other choice away from you. They can change the situation but cannot change your decision or choosing.

If someone punches me in the face and someone punches you in the face the actions that we make are not predetermined but at that point chosen. Our actions may be entirely different from each other. I make walk away and you may fight or I may choose that I shall fight and you choose to walk away.


The Universe is based on randomness or Infinity due to the Free Will of each portion (no matter how small) of the Universe.

[LegosInMyEgos]

yes you can..... it's call indeterminacy or underdeterminacy.

if we had perfect knowledge, we could perfectly predict people's behavior and draw up physical laws to explain how they behave.

we don't, so we can't.

we can assign probabilities to outcomes, since we have a little bit too little information to be absolutely certain.

and sometimes we can't really accurately assign and probabilities because we just don't have enough information.


so i can believe individuals are autonomous and gonna do waht they do for reasons that can all be explained, while not knowing what it is that they are exactly going to do...


good enough for me to conclude they have free will, as in they are free to do whatever, while concluding that since i can make sense of it after, i could in principle have predicted in beforehand!

*nerd boner*

That's a strawman argument, and not a valid one to disprove determinism.

The fact that we as humans cannot predict the actions of others with complete accuracy does not mean that said peoples actions are free.

It only proves that as of now we do not have the means to accurately predict the actions of others, and we likely never will develop that ability with 100% accuracy.

The fact of the matter is, you cannot believe in a cause and effect relationship yet simultaneously believe in free will.

Free actions would by definition be uncaused effects.

[MetalManuel]

yes you can..... it's call indeterminacy or underdeterminacy.

if we had perfect knowledge, we could perfectly predict people's behavior and draw up physical laws to explain how they behave.

we don't, so we can't.

we can assign probabilities to outcomes, since we have a little bit too little information to be absolutely certain.

and sometimes we can't really accurately assign and probabilities because we just don't have enough information.


so i can believe individuals are autonomous and gonna do waht they do for reasons that can all be explained, while not knowing what it is that they are exactly going to do...


good enough for me to conclude they have free will, as in they are free to do whatever, while concluding that since i can make sense of it after, i could in principle have predicted in beforehand!

*nerd boner*

Not knowing doesn't mean there's free wll. Stop using ignorance to make yourself feel better. Are you saying that before we had the knowledge we had today about physics, that it was completely random?

This is not true. Each entity responds in a different matter due to the uniqueness of Free Will or choice.

In any and every situation you have a choice nobody can force you to make the choice by taking the other choice away from you. They can change the situation but cannot change your decision or choosing.

If someone punches me in the face and someone punches you in the face the actions that we make are not predetermined but at that point chosen. Our actions may be entirely different from each other. I make walk away and you may fight or I may choose that I shall fight and you choose to walk away.


The Universe is based on randomness or Infinity due to the Free Will of each portion (no matter how small) of the Universe.

Each entity responds in a different way because they are in different situations with millions of factors differentiating them. If you were to have the exact same circmstances though as before, then the effect would be exactly the same. If the universe was random, then math wouldn't exist, and neither would we.

[festeri]

Free will is more accurately understood as a mental skill rather than something that magically exists outside of the boundaries of natural science. The entire concept of absolute free will does not make any sense, it is completely meaningless and has nothing to do with reality. It does not either exist or not exist, it is a meaningless concept.

[LegosInMyEgos]

This is not true. Each entity responds in a different matter due to the uniqueness of Free Will or choice.

In any and every situation you have a choice nobody can force you to make the choice by taking the other choice away from you. They can change the situation but cannot change your decision or choosing.

If someone punches me in the face and someone punches you in the face the actions that we make are not predetermined but at that point chosen. Our actions may be entirely different from each other. I make walk away and you may fight or I may choose that I shall fight and you choose to walk away.


The Universe is based on randomness or Infinity due to the Free Will of each portion (no matter how small) of the Universe.

Each entity responds differently to every situation because every person is different. Every person is a different sack of molecules, and that person was raised in a particular environment which caused those sacks of molecules to respond in a certain way.

The fact that different people behave differently has nothing to do with free will. The fact that your actions have a cause, is in and of itself enough to disprove free will.

[thefloopist]

I'm just along for the ride, well the free peanuts too.

[MetalManuel]

Free will is more accurately understood as a mental skill rather than something that magically exists outside of the boundaries of natural science. The entire concept of absolute free will does not make any sense, it is completely meaningless and has nothing to do with reality. It does not either exist or not exist, it is a meaningless concept.

What do you mean by meaningless? I hear people throwing this term around all the time. Is it meaningless to you or do you have some sort of objective definition for it?

I'm just along for the ride, well the free peanuts too.

Just here to fap basically. feelsgoodman.jpg

[jayohthatman]

ive thought about this before and I agree. ultimately eveerything you are /do/think is the result of something outside ur control............no free will

[SuperSonicMan]

<------------ douche misc

you just pointed to yourself

[Triumphator]

I strongly disagree.

Let me give you a small example...

Most people would blindly answer the door unknowing it's the Jehovah's Witness's, not me I look out my peep hole and make the choice to not answer my door, free will right there brother.

[STPinPA]

Each entity responds differently to every situation because every person is different. Every person is a different sack of molecules, and that person was raised in a particular environment which caused those sacks of molecules to respond in a certain way.

The fact that different people behave differently has nothing to do with free will. The fact that your actions have a cause, is in and of itself enough to disprove free will.

This pales in insignificance considering two genetically identical twins will make difference decisions.


Each entity has unique biases and makes unique choices due to it's differences - all things come from the same source but it is the choices made a long their journey from the source that shapes them into the unique and different entities that they are. They aren't predetermined to be shaped that way but create such a shape with choices and experiences. (Yes, life before death. Yes,Life after death).

[LegosInMyEgos]

I strongly disagree.

Let me give you a small example...

Most people would blindly answer the door unknowing it's the Jehovah's Witness's, not me I look out my peep hole and make the choice to not answer my door, free will right there brother.

How in any way, shape, or form, is that evidence of free will?

[lfkovacs]

[dietsnapple007]

Wat?!

[LegosInMyEgos]

This pales in insignificance considering two genetically identical twins will make difference decisions.


Each entity has unique biases and makes unique choices due to it's differences - all things come from the same source but it is the choices made a long their journey from the source that shapes them into the unique and different entities that they are. They aren't predetermined to be shaped that way but create such a shape with choices and experiences.

First of all, identical twins are not truly identical. Their molecular structure while nearly the same, does differ on a small level.

2nd, this due to their environment.

2 things determine your actions

1. genetics

2. environment

Nothing else, free will is impossible if you accept cause and effect relationships.

[LegosInMyEgos]

Based on my genetics and everything in my environment throughout my life up till this point, I am making the decision to neg you back.

My decision is not free though, it has to happen.

[MetalManuel]

I strongly disagree.

Let me give you a small example...

Most people would blindly answer the door unknowing it's the Jehovah's Witness's, not me I look out my peep hole and make the choice to not answer my door, free will right there brother.

That's a cool story brother. Not even going to bother honestly.

This pales in insignificance considering two genetically identical twins will make difference decisions.


Each entity has unique biases and makes unique choices due to it's differences - all things come from the same source but it is the choices made a long their journey from the source that shapes them into the unique and different entities that they are. They aren't predetermined to be shaped that way but create such a shape with choices and experiences.

Genetics isn't the end all be all for determining what someone's life will be like. It's a mixture of both environment and genetics, not only that but we are also part of our environment. Yes they may be identical, but they will grow up in different locations, never do the exact same thing. They won't be different due to choices and experiences, just due to the fact that they won't grow up exactly the same.

Not only that but our structure isn't perfect and our cells make mistakes when replicating, including when twins are made. There will be very small differences. Evidence? We age.

[STPinPA]

First of all, identical twins are not truly identical. Their molecular structure while nearly the same, does differ on a small level.

2nd, this due to their environment.

2 things determine your actions

1. genetics

2. environment

Nothing else, free will is impossible if you accept cause and effect relationships.

Figure two toddlers who have a brain that is a blank slate. Same age and same points of their journey of their current incarnation. They will make different choices based on Free Will and independent choices having nothing to do with pathways or embedded predetermination in their brain - because their is none. The factors that build the toddlers into who they are, are created by choices which enforce or manifest the experiences which will shape the toddler.

So regardless of genetics the brain is not unique or personalized yet. Instead there is another determining factor (Free Will) which has nothing to do with motives that are predetermined based on experience. Other than choices in each situation that the toddler makes.

[Triumphator]

How in any way, shape, or form, is that evidence of free will?

I hope for your sake you are trolling.