Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two

[J.Thomas]

Was curious. How long after you start your fast are you aloud to imPly the whole 50 cal or less rule?

[KevJr88]

http://www.leangains.com/2013/01/con...d-clarity.html


new article is out, I hope that with martin's words, people will stop believing that IF is magic

Yes, oh wise vitornoob. Please continue educating us, with your endless amount of knowledge, all of which is acquired from bb.com. Oh great vitornoob.

[chigz32]

Hi guys,

Since the summer, I've lost weight from around 80kg to 72kg due to calorific diet and IF. Even though my stomach fat has dropped a lot, I still have stubborn fat around the stomach and obliques, and I've dropped muscle. I'm still on this diet and reach around 1600kcal with around 120g protein.

I was wondering if I should up my kcal intake to maintenance (around 2000kcal). I want to build my muscle back again but try and get rid of this stubborn fat by IF.

What does anyone think? Any help would be appreciated

[jimsmith9999]

Hi guys,

Since the summer, I've lost weight from around 80kg to 72kg due to calorific diet and IF. Even though my stomach fat has dropped a lot, I still have stubborn fat around the stomach and obliques, and I've dropped muscle. I'm still on this diet and reach around 1600kcal with around 120g protein.

I was wondering if I should up my kcal intake to maintenance (around 2000kcal). I want to build my muscle back again but try and get rid of this stubborn fat by IF.

What does anyone think? Any help would be appreciated

If you are dropping muscle you have your calories too low, you aren't getting enough protein, you aren't lifting heavy enough/smart enough (or some combination of all three). Protein does seem a bit low for your weight, but not low enough to likely be responsible though.

As far as advice goes, pick a goal and stick with it. Work on dropping the fat, or work on gaining muscle. Don't focus on both. If you focus on cutting further, right the wrongs that are causing you to lose muscle.

[chigz32]

If you are dropping muscle you have your calories too low, you aren't getting enough protein, you aren't lifting heavy enough/smart enough (or some combination of all three). Protein does seem a bit low for your weight, but not low enough to likely be responsible though.

As far as advice goes, pick a goal and stick with it. Work on dropping the fat, or work on gaining muscle. Don't focus on both. If you focus on cutting further, right the wrongs that are causing you to lose muscle.

Thanks for your response-I'm gonna be sticking to intermittent fasting because I think it helps.

When you mention righting the wrongs of muscle loss, do you mean increasing protein/calories? That's what I'm thinking now, because then kcals are still low to concentrate on losing stubborn fat

[illriginalized]

http://www.leangains.com/2013/01/con...d-clarity.html


new article is out, I hope that with martin's words, people will stop believing that IF is magic

No one claimed it was magic. Many of us were already doing, "IF" without realizing it. And in my case, I thought, before IF, that having 1 large meal was counter-productive. But in the end.. it doesn't matter just so long as macro or better yet caloric intake is met + micronutrients.

[determined4000]

No one claimed it was magic. .

Sadly many do think there are some special benefits significantly helping fat loss or lean muscle gains over traditional meal frequencies

[jimsmith9999]

Thanks for your response-I'm gonna be sticking to intermittent fasting because I think it helps.

Nothing I mentioned is contradictory to using IF. Don't be mistaken in thinking that IF is a magic bullet that will let you gain and get shredded at the same time. You can use IF for a straight cut, you can use IF for a bulk, or you can recomp. Recomping is tough though, really tough and requires a lot of precision.

When you mention righting the wrongs of muscle loss, do you mean increasing protein/calories? That's what I'm thinking now, because then kcals are still low to concentrate on losing stubborn fat

Yes, that is what I mean. I'd take your protein up to 1g/lb of body weight and eat more. Also, you didn't mention anything about your training, but be sure your routine focuses on the big compound movements with heavy weights.

[jimsmith9999]

No one claimed it was magic. Many of us were already doing, "IF" without realizing it. And in my case, I thought, before IF, that having 1 large meal was counter-productive. But in the end.. it doesn't matter just so long as macro or better yet caloric intake is met + micronutrients.

Maybe not around here, but people all over the bb.com forums think it is.

[vitornoob]

No one claimed it was magic. Many of us were already doing, "IF" without realizing it. And in my case, I thought, before IF, that having 1 large meal was counter-productive. But in the end.. it doesn't matter just so long as macro or better yet caloric intake is met + micronutrients.

how you are delusional, a lot of people think

and btw, one meal a day is not optimal

[illriginalized]

Sadly many do think there are some special benefits significantly helping fat loss or lean muscle gains over traditional meal frequencies

Personally I like the fact that I can take a lower dose of a supplement and still feel the effect that of a typical dose or higher dose.

how you are delusional, a lot of people think

and btw, one meal a day is not optimal

riiiiiiight... yet I was able to break through quite a few plateaus on chest, back, and legs, regarding strength.. and becoming more vascular.. lulz

[vitornoob]

riiiiiiight... yet I was able to break through quite a few plateaus on chest, back, and legs, regarding strength.. and becoming more vascular.. lulz

Alan Aragon has already stated that is not optimal for protein synthesis, google it

It might not be optimal for hastening the rate of gains in net muscle protein synthesis (MPS), not body comp, as you relayed above. This is due to research showing the benefit in pre-, during-, and/or postworkout protein dosing. Optimizing the anabolic response would likely involve at minimum, a preworkout dose and a postworkout dose, since protein dosing near training has a synergistic effect on MPS, at least acutely. The research has obvious limitations in most cases (which I've covered ad nauseam in AARR), but it does give us the clue that optimizing the rate of MPS in the long term is not likely done in a single daily dose. For whom is this cute little detail relevant? It depends, but I'd say it's not relevant for most of the general population. Also, I remember that none of these speculations have been sufficiently tested under objective/relevant conditions. I stated that I was hypothesizing in the vid, since this question hasn't been systematically investigated.

[illriginalized]

Alan Aragon has already stated that is not optimal for protein synthesis, google it

I'm aware. We also used to believe that we have to eat 5-8 meals a day. And that our bodies could only absorb 30g of protein per meal lulz
I'm completely happy of my lifestyle (eating habits and exercise that is). If I feel the need to change things around, I will be more than happy to. But as of now, I'll stick to my current protocol

[J.Thomas]

Was curious. How long after you start your fast are you aloud to imPly the whole 50 cal or less rule?

^^bump question

[ColbyBernard]

I stock 20-40lbs for 4 hours at work while fasting.

Are my macros to high, to low? Been using LG for 4 months now, some progress. Just started getting 7-8 hours of sleep. I lift 4 days a week split up most days.
I am 5'11 164lbs

Fats= 9
T=35, R=55

Carbs= 128
T=368, R=212

Protein= 93
T=180, R=170

[vitornoob]

^^bump question

there is no rule, this depends on eachone's body, fast does not have a on/off switch

I'm aware. We also used to believe that we have to eat 5-8 meals a day. And that our bodies could only absorb 30g of protein per meal lulz
I'm completely happy of my lifestyle (eating habits and exercise that is). If I feel the need to change things around, I will be more than happy to. But as of now, I'll stick to my current protocol

there is a difference between in believing and science

I stock 20-40lbs for 4 hours at work while fasting.

Are my macros to high, to low? Been using LG for 4 months now, some progress. Just started getting 7-8 hours of sleep. I lift 4 days a week split up most days.
I am 5'11 164lbs

Fats= 9
T=35, R=55

Carbs= 128
T=368, R=212

Protein= 93
T=180, R=170

your fats seem a bit low, what is this 9, 128 and 93?

how much is your maintenance?

[illriginalized]

there is no rule, this depends on eachone's body, fast does not have a on/off switch



there is a difference between in believing and science

Right. And at one time it was, "scientific" to claim that only 30g of protein could be absorbed

[vitornoob]

Right. And at one time it was, "scientific" to claim that only 30g of protein could be absorbed

I don't remember seing any studies

[KevJr88]

I don't remember seing any studies

You don't need a study to back up things that are widely accepted in the scientific community. At a certain point its like asking for proof we need to breathe.

In before d*ck measuring contest.

[ColbyBernard]

there is no rule, this depends on eachone's body, fast does not have a on/off switch



there is a difference between in believing and science


your fats seem a bit low, what is this 9, 128 and 93?

how much is your maintenance?

My maitinence calories are 2379 (I undershot with the activity multiplier) and ignore those, they were my current days of each macro.

[vitornoob]

My maitinence calories are 2379 (I undershot with the activity multiplier) and ignore those, they were my current days of each macro.

how did you calculate your maintenance? seems pretty low

[ColbyBernard]

My maitinence calories are 2379 (I undershot with the activity multiplier) and ignore those, they were my current days of each macro.

I guess to be more detailed here is my math
BMR

Weight- 72kg
Height- 182.88cm

66+(986.4)+(914.4)-(136)

BMR= 1830

Activity Multiplier= 1.3

BMR (after activity multi)= 2379

Training Day= +5%

Training Day Calories= 2498

Training Day Protein= 180g
(720 Calories)

Training Day Fats= 35g
(305 Calories)

Training Day Carbs= 368g
(1473 Calories)

Rest Day= -15%

Rest Day Calories= 2022

Rest Day Protein= 170g
(680 Calories)

Rest Day Fats= 55g
(495 Calories)

Rest Day Carbs= 212g
(847 Calories)

I used harris-benedict equation

[suiteness]

what about cardio? Should I treat it the same as weight training and take bcaa's prior?

[jimsmith9999]

what about cardio? Should I treat it the same as weight training and take bcaa's prior?

Nope. Maybe if you are doing HIIT, but fasted HIIT seems like a bad idea to me.

[KevJr88]

Nope. Maybe if you are doing HIIT, but fasted HIIT seems like a bad idea to me.

Why do you say that?

[jimsmith9999]

Why do you say that?

Say what, not liking fasted HIIT, or not needing BCAA's?

[vitornoob]

If you're adding 2-3 sessions of HIIT to your 3 sessions of weights, it is almost comparable to adding 2-3 days of weights. Keyword is "almost", I'm obviously not drawing direct comparisons. That's all fine and dandy if you think working out 5-6 days/week is a good idea on a diet. But I don't think anyone - no matter what level of experience - needs more than 3 days a week in the gym when cutting. (Yes, this goes for competitors and beginners alike.)
In conclusion, if conditioning is not terribly important for you, if your goal is really about getting shredded while keeping your muscle, I highly suggest limiting moderate to high intensity cardio on a diet - or ditch it completely. Save it for some other time when your recovery is good and not limited by your diet.

A calorie deficit is a recovery deficit. Avoid deficit spending.

please, read!


if you do HIIT for other purposes, it is fine...

you don't need bcaas

[jimsmith9999]

For body composition purpose, Martin recommends 60-90 minutes per day of very low intensity cardio - think walking on a treadmill with a moderate pace and slight incline. He does it fasted, and no BCAA's as he feels the FFA's in the bloodstream will be high after fasting. The very low intensity is to use them, but low enough to not impact recovery.

Take it for what it's worth - you'll want a good book or an iPad loaded with good vids if you want to spend an hour to an hour a half per day on a treadmill :-)

[KevJr88]

Say what, not liking fasted HIIT, or not needing BCAA's?

Fasted HIIT, I'm not trying to be a dick, just curious.

[ShadowWolfe]

please, read!


if you do HIIT for other purposes, it is fine...

you don't need bcaas

Unless your doing cardio because you actually want better cardio I assume....