Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss

[Martin Berkhan]

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

For those familiar with Lyle McDonald, I'll be writing a book with him on the method. Leangains is pretty much the antithesis of the traditional meal patterns which are encouraged on this board (i.e high meal frequency, eating every 2-3 hrs etc).

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

[Jashro]

Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

For those familiar with Lyle McDonald, I'll be writing a book with him on the method. Leangains is pretty much the antithesis of the traditional meal patterns which are encouraged on this board (i.e high meal frequency, eating every 2-3 hrs etc).

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

Oh dear god...

[darkvain]

^ this reaction is hardly suprising, but why do most of you close your eyes when new concepts and ideas appear?

To me, intermittent fasting seems rather reasonable, there has been lots of research that all point to its health benefits. I am still not sure if its optimal for bodybuilding and strength training, but why not try new stuff?

Martin, would you be so kind to show us some more pictures of yourself and your progress using your own protocol? You seem extremely lean in your profile pictures, but they are small and don?t really show a lot. Thank you!

[Martin Berkhan]

Originally Posted by darkvain

^ this reaction is hardly suprising, but why do most of you close your eyes when new concepts and ideas appear?

To me, intermittent fasting seems rather reasonable, there has been lots of research that all point to its health benefits. I am still not sure if its optimal for bodybuilding and strength training, but why not try new stuff?

Martin, would you be so kind to show us some more pictures of yourself and your progress using your own protocol? You seem extremely lean in your profile pictures, but they are small and don?t really show a lot. Thank you!

Darkvain,

im not really surprised about the (lack of) responses. I get the impression that most of the people here are pretty narrowminded and dogmatic when it comes to nutrition. The "when and how's" of eating (6 meals a day, "starvation mode" etc) and other common bodybuilding jargon is heavily preached and is accepted as the undeniable truth. That's also why I shy away from this forum and frequent other boards where topics are discussed within a scientific, rather than "bro-scific", context.

That being said, I'll have some more pictures up on the blog in about a month or so when im done with the recomp protocol im currently doing.

I recently put up some vids where im sitting at 206-208 lbs @ 8-9% bf, which would be 8 lbs of LBM gained since my avatar pic (which was taken in november). I hope to hit 6%-7% in the end of august, which would be a net gain of 22-24 lbs LBM in about a year, doing various forms of IF (cycling calories and playing around with macros).

[darkvain]

I totally agree with what you said about the way these "bodybuilding rules" about nutrition are believed and followed without further questioning or critical thought. Funny that some natural guys think they can stuff themselves like the pros without gaining any fat ("clean bulking", what a joke). It?s good that there are some people trying out new stuff!

Some more questions: Did you do any cardio to reach the leanness seen in your pics? I?d find it hard to believe you didn?t, if yes, what kind of cardio?.

Also, do you usually train in a fasted state? I would think that this would put the body under too much pressure, what about the emptied glycogen storages - I read that the body produces ketones as energy during a fast, regardless of low-carb nutrition or not, but is that efficient enough fuel for intensive workouts?

Thanks man

[The Director]

I just read a great article on this, it seems to make sense. Only problem I have with it is, how it effects the thyroid, I mean, doesn't it slow down the metabolism?

[Flex500]

Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan

Darkvain,

im not really surprised about the (lack of) responses. I get the impression that most of the people here are pretty narrowminded and dogmatic when it comes to nutrition. The "when and how's" of eating (6 meals a day, "starvation mode" etc) and other common bodybuilding jargon is heavily preached and is accepted as the undeniable truth. That's also why I shy away from this forum and frequent other boards where topics are discussed within a scientific, rather than "bro-scific", context.

That being said, I'll have some more pictures up on the blog in about a month or so when im done with the recomp protocol im currently doing.

I recently put up some vids where im sitting at 206-208 lbs @ 8-9% bf, which would be 8 lbs of LBM gained since my avatar pic (which was taken in november). I hope to hit 6%-7% in the end of august, which would be a net gain of 22-24 lbs LBM in about a year, doing various forms of IF (cycling calories and playing around with macros).

I actually think the idea might have some merits, but you do understand why people are hesitant right, I mean....

you realize there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, probably thousands and thousands of people here saying the same thing as you. The EXACT same thing as you. That they have a great new idea with science to back it up that is untraditional to help gain, muscle, lose fat, etc. etc. etc.

Point being if we tried everyones "new thing" we'd be switching diets every damn day. And although change is good consistancy is VERY important in bodybuilding.

[Lawdog1379]

I've learned a lot from bodybuilding.com and learning more everyday. I am still extremely ignorant when it comes to macros/micros, diet, aspects to bodybuilding, etc...My question is that my workout consists of four days throughout the week. I workout Mon/Tue and then off on Wed and then workout again Thur/Fri. This diet seems to only work when you workout every other day or am I looking at it wrong. If so can someone explain to me how you could incorporate this diet into working out four days a week.

[gjohnson5]

The deadlift video looks like anything but 600lb...
Infact it looks more like 350...

[W8isGR8]

Originally Posted by gjohnson5

The deadlift video looks like anything but 600lb...
Infact it looks more like 350...

Kilograms?

[asiya-sparkles]

Originally Posted by darkvain

^ this reaction is hardly suprising, but why do most of you close your eyes when new concepts and ideas appear?

To me, intermittent fasting seems rather reasonable, there has been lots of research that all point to its health benefits. I am still not sure if its optimal for bodybuilding and strength training, but why not try new stuff?

Martin, would you be so kind to show us some more pictures of yourself and your progress using your own protocol? You seem extremely lean in your profile pictures, but they are small and don?t really show a lot. Thank you!

Salam alaikom wa Rachman t'ullah
unless a medical condition prevails, intermittent fasting is beneficial - even medically. It helps to cleanse and detox the system and avoid food allergies. InshAllah

[Bgreise24]

alright, im getting really ****ing pissed, I was skeptical of IF at first but its not that complicated look everybody it is just nutrient partitioning to the extremem im not the first person to say that, so if you know anything you know anyone who is serious is pretty much getting most of the calories post workout and a decent amount before bed to combat catabolism, nobody gives a **** about anything but pre and post workout nutrition and getting those vital casiens before bed.
So heres what i say **** the science (no disrespect to science) and the release of hormone A and hormone B if cortisol levels are raised good who gives a **** because you are getting the cals when you need them post workout and your getting more of them to grow and get big and getting those casiens before bed just get you throuh the short fast instead of just the sleeping fast so that you have more calories on hand to ****ing have a huge anabolic rebound pWO while simultaneusly* burning fat. Like i mean why does everyone care about this "caloric restriction" all of you against IF are pussys because if you were a real body builder you would know you need to feed the beast after your workout and like metallica says nothing else matters
I appoligize in advance if i offended anyone

[crazymutha]

Originally Posted by Bgreise24

all of you against IF are pussys because if you were a real body builder you would know you need to feed the beast after your workout and like metallica says nothing else matters
I appoligize in advance if i offended anyone

Agreed. Feed the beast...or beastie for you women?

On a side note, Metallica should have called it quits after AJFA. I am willing to look over their recent failures and give 'em props for their work in the '80s.

[CF10]

Originally Posted by Bgreise24

alright, im getting really ****ing pissed, I was skeptical of IF at first but its not that complicated look everybody it is just nutrient partitioning to the extremem im not the first person to say that, so if you know anything you know anyone who is serious is pretty much getting most of the calories post workout and a decent amount before bed to combat catabolism, nobody gives a **** about anything but pre and post workout nutrition and getting those vital casiens before bed.
So heres what i say **** the science (no disrespect to science) and the release of hormone A and hormone B if cortisol levels are raised good who gives a **** because you are getting the cals when you need them post workout and your getting more of them to grow and get big and getting those casiens before bed just get you throuh the short fast instead of just the sleeping fast so that you have more calories on hand to ****ing have a huge anabolic rebound pWO while simultaneusly* burning fat. Like i mean why does everyone care about this "caloric restriction" all of you against IF are pussys because if you were a real body builder you would know you need to feed the beast after your workout and like metallica says nothing else matters
I appoligize in advance if i offended anyone

The relationship between postworkout cals consumed and growth is not linear (i.e. more isnt always better). There is a point where eating more wont do much good in terms of fueling the muscle. As long as it is a sufficient amount, you'll grow assuming other factors are in line. So slamming 2500 cals post workout doesnt mean you fed the beast any better than someone who ate 700.

[crazymutha]

Originally Posted by asiya-sparkles

It helps to cleanse and detox the system and avoid food allergies.

True.

I have had some acne on my forehead for about a year now and it is clearing up quickly.

[gjohnson5]

I was about to say...

Juice fasting has been used for many many years for this purpose.
But those fasts are generally days long if not a week
Maybe used in conjuction with a colon clense...

These guys are saying his diet is nothing more then longer spaced intervals between meals. So the health benefits of actually fasting doesn't seem to apply here.

Maybe IF should be renamed reduce meal frequency , because the use of the word "fasting" doesn't make sense in this case

Originally Posted by asiya-sparkles

Salam alaikom wa Rachman t'ullah
unless a medical condition prevails, intermittent fasting is beneficial - even medically. It helps to cleanse and detox the system and avoid food allergies. InshAllah

[SuffolkPunch]

Originally Posted by gjohnson5

I was about to say...



Maybe IF should be renamed reduce meal frequency , because the use of the word "fasting" seem doesn't make sense in this case

I agree. The word carries a lot of baggage (ZOMG myu biceptz = catabawlick!!1)

If you used more trendy words like nutrient parititioning and recomping then people would flock to it.

[exile-swede]

Originally Posted by gjohnson5

I was about to say...

Juice fasting has been used for years for this purpose.
But those fasts are generally days long if not a week
Maybe used in conjuction with a colon clense...

These guys are saying his diet is nothing more then longer spaced intervals between meals. So the health benefits of actually fasting doesn't seem to apply here.

Maybe IF should be renamed reduce meal frequency , because the use of the word "fasting" seem doesn't make sense in this case

You're missing a crucial point here.

There is no standardized definition of fasting regarding duration (1) but fasting is normally referred to as abstaining from all food. If something contains calories, it's food. Regardless if it's in a firm or fluid form. If you are drinking significant amounts of something like juice that contains a not unsignificant amount of calories (in the form of carbs) you're definitively not fasting.

So 16 hours of fast is intermittent fasting. 16 hours of drinking juice is just 16 hours of drinking juice.

Btw.. Instead of "juice fasting", why not "soda fasting" or "beer fasting"? they all contain about the same amount of calories per glass..


1. Blood Sampling: Is Fasting Properly Defined? Clinical Chemistry. 2005;51:1563-1564.

[Druluv75]

Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

For those familiar with Lyle McDonald, I'll be writing a book with him on the method. Leangains is pretty much the antithesis of the traditional meal patterns which are encouraged on this board (i.e high meal frequency, eating every 2-3 hrs etc).

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

Being that you wrote this book with Lyle Mcdonald, How does Lyle feel about using the eating style with Keto. I hope you did not just get us hot an sweating with this info then leave I read from proteinpower, the health benefits from this style of eating to, but your advise with respect to keto would be valuable to the keto population.

[Druluv75]

Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

For those familiar with Lyle McDonald, I'll be writing a book with him on the method. Leangains is pretty much the antithesis of the traditional meal patterns which are encouraged on this board (i.e high meal frequency, eating every 2-3 hrs etc).

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

Being that you wrote this book with Lyle Mcdonald, How does Lyle feel about using the eating style with Keto. I hope you did not just get us hot an sweating with this info then leave I read from proteinpower, the health benefits from this style of eating to, but your advise with respect to keto would be valuable to the keto population.

[Druluv75]

Originally Posted by Martin Berkhan

Ok, I started of trolling a bit here the last week. Not really a good start, so I'll try again.

Im using a system of intermittent fasting in order to promote lean muscle gains and fat loss. The method has gained quite some popularity on other boards, so I though I'd just put my blog link here for those interested in reading more about it.

For those familiar with Lyle McDonald, I'll be writing a book with him on the method. Leangains is pretty much the antithesis of the traditional meal patterns which are encouraged on this board (i.e high meal frequency, eating every 2-3 hrs etc).

Check it out and leave some comments if you wan't.

www.leangains.blogspot.com

Being that you wrote this book with Lyle Mcdonald, How does Lyle feel about using the eating style with Keto. I hope you did not just get us hot an sweating with this info then leave I read from proteinpower, the health benefits from this style of eating to, but your advise with respect to keto would be valuable to the keto population.

[jfla32033]

Originally Posted by jfla32033

Four questions that I'm not totally clear on, although they probably depend on the individual... but for matthor...

1. For your PWO feasting...how long after your workout does that come?

2. Do you do take some whey or anything immediately post workout?

3. Do you have any progress pics since you have been on this IF regimen?

4. Would you suggest this for cutting/bulking/maintaining (have you put on weight or lost weight during your time practicing IF/would you say you eat with a caloric surplus or defecit)?

Bump to this...and one more...sorry for being so nosey, but "I'm here to learn, people" (Billy Madison quote)...what would you say is the best macro ratio for this diet? At first I thought heavy on the carbs to break the fast and really give that spike but then I thought heavy on the fats to have slow digestion and less of a starvation....and now I'm just confused.

[Martin Berkhan]

Originally Posted by Druluv75

Being that you wrote this book with Lyle Mcdonald, How does Lyle feel about using the eating style with Keto. I hope you did not just get us hot an sweating with this info then leave I read from proteinpower, the health benefits from this style of eating to, but your advise with respect to keto would be valuable to the keto population.

The book isn't written yet and Lyle hasn't explicitly expressed any opinions wrt combining the approach with keto. That being said, I think keto might be an option if your first priority is fat loss.

For example, I have one slightly overweight (bf 20%+) client doing 150 g cho on overfeeds PWO (E3D) and 50 g cho other days, reaching ketosis quickly on non-wo days (despite protein intake being higher than a standard keto approach). Weightloss is quite rapid, but strength is maintained (even increased a bit) so far.

I haven't experimented a lot with the keto approach, but carb intake is tailored depending on the individual and his/hers main priority. The default method is moderate-high carb, but I am in the early stages of experimenting with mod-high fat, low-mod carbs and moderate protein.

I will have enough data to make a conclusion wrt low carb approaches, and proper macros, to cover it fully in the book.

[EOY]

I'm a Muslim and we have the month of Ramadan coming up soon, during which we fast from sunrise till sunset. Can't drink anything either. I can eat anytime between sunset and sunrise. I read up on this diet from the websites listed on the leangains blog, but it's still a little vague to me (or is it really that simple?). I was thinking since I'm going to fast anyway, I might as well give this a shot. Where can I find more info about this diet? Is there an e-book I can get?

[Martin Berkhan]

Originally Posted by EOY

I'm a Muslim and we have the month of Ramadan coming up soon, during which we fast from sunrise till sunset. Can't drink anything either. I can eat anytime between sunset and sunrise. I read up on this diet from the websites listed on the leangains blog, but it's still a little vague to me (or is it really that simple?). I was thinking since I'm going to fast anyway, I might as well give this a shot. Where can I find more info about this diet? Is there an e-book I can get?

No, it's not that simple and I would be stupid to give away more detailed information 1) before the book drops and 2) because it would not be in my best interest to do so (im a nutritional counselor and part of my business is online based).

[CoQ10]

Martin -

I apologize if this has already been addressed, but do you have an ETA on the book?

Thanks,
C10

[Martin Berkhan]

Not yet. Waiting for Lyle to finish the editing on another book, then hopefully we'll get started with this one.

[drivium]

RU4A69 -

Ok, apparently I misunderstood. It sounded as if you are supposed to only consume food for an 8 hour window of time but you are telling me that there is no need to cut off food intake at a designated time... Is that not the whole premise of this diet? Now I'm really confused. I'll stick to my 6 meals a day.

[RU4A69]

Originally Posted by drivium

RU4A69 -

Ok, apparently I misunderstood. It sounded as if you are supposed to only consume food for an 8 hour window of time but you are telling me that there is no need to cut off food intake at a designated time... Is that not the whole premise of this diet? Now I'm really confused. I'll stick to my 6 meals a day.

Yes, it is the premise, but it sounds like you're cutting out food at night rather than the morning: you've got it backwards.

The main benefit of this diet is increased energy and decreased hassle: this isn't-I have no clue how this works for body composition compared to 6 meals per day, as I've been eating 3 meals or less for years on end (4 meals absolute maximum, but that's very rare).

All I can tell you w/ certainty is that you can create a caloric defecit MUCH easier eating 2X per day, without feeling like you're starving to death. I tried doing a defecit eating 3+ times a day & felt like I was going to pass out all the time-and got terrible headaches w/ severe dehydration in the morning. The fasting part kills your appetite, and you'll find yourself satiated w/ less food. Find whatever works best 4 you.

[darkvain]

Well, after some experimentation I have come to the conclusion that fasting in the afternoon is MUCH harder for me than fasting in the morning, as in skipping breakfast and lunch. It?s just kind of psychologically pleasing to know that you?ll get to eat later on before sleeping instead of knowing that that was it for the day.

I also did some HIIT cardio in a fasted state some days ago. I was actually just planning to run for a while but then I felt pretty energetic and decided to do some sprinting instead; I didn?t feel any less powerful than if I had eaten before - maybe even more powerful..

I?ll definitely stick to this diet approach for some time; let?s see what will happen. It is definitely easier to do for me than eating 6 meals a day; I am always overeating on a diet like that and can?t do it for long.