Keeping back "vertical" squat + Heel support

[fellipe]

Well, at my other thread, where I posted my squat form video, I realized that I wasn't being able of keeping my back "vertical", and I was almost doing good mornings cuz my back was almost paralel with the ground. First I thought it was due the weight being too heavy for my but:

I've done a quick test and even without the weight on my back I wasn't able of squating without my back (torso) being horizontal. I simply could not keep balance and I kept falling back on my ass.

So I put two small plates under both of my heels and BINGO I simply squatted in a perfect form, keeping my torso more vertical, just the way I've seen on others squat form videos and from the video that rippetoes coaches one of his athletes.

What can be learned from this and which advice would you give me? I mean, what is the point I should correct?

the video:

[fellipe]

I should add that my feet are shoulder apart.

[Metal_Lust]

I would go near horizontal at times too. I just try to do my best making sure my hips AND shoulders rise at the same time. I also try to keep my frame rigid, sticking to that 45-ish degree angle throughout.

[ZoranM]

There's no way of telling if/what you may be doing wrong without seeing you,or the video of you squatting.Depending on your proportions,the torso doesn't have to be vertical,it has to be straight.

If heel blocks help you,use them.Maybe in time,you wont need them,but there is nothing wrong with using them if they help.

[Metal_Lust]

There's no way of telling if/what you may be doing wrong without seeing you,or the video of you squatting.Depending on your proportions,the torso doesn't have to be vertical,it has to be straight.

If heel blocks help you,use them.Maybe in time,you wont need them,but there is nothing wrong with using them if they help.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=126377093

[fellipe]

bump

[pezking7p]

Having some back angle is necessary, horizontal, though, is probably too much.

Things that will make you fall over backwards:

-Trying to literally keep your back vertical
-Keeping your knee directly above your heel while simultaneously trying to keep your back angle too upright
-Inflexible ankles keeping your knees from tracking forward
-Stance too narrow (not that your stance is necessarily too narrow, but a wider stance allows you to squat "between" your legs, which prevents you from falling over backwards).

Basically, it comes down to body mechanics. You need to realize that there is a constant relationship between bar position, back angle, stance width, and knee angle that determines whether or not you fall over. Try some stuff out with a light bar until you get a feel for body position for the squat...it's a move that is very deceptively simple looking.

[fellipe]

^
I think my problem is Inflexible ankles cuz I have a hard time trying to get my knee in front of my toes...

[Retardo-pex]

You don't need to keep your back vertical to the floor. You are positioning the bar very low on your back like a powerlifter which will cause you to bend a bit more then an olympic style squat. Instead of focusing on being vertical, focus on keep your back in the same position from top to bottom. You don't want to go from 45 degrees to 180 or anything but not looking like an L is perfectly acceptable.

If it really bugs you simply place the bar higher up on your back, this will allow you to stand a bit more straight up while squatting.

[sircharles032]

How are we going to help you on your "new" form when you post a video of the "old" form?

And what kind of plate do you use, something thin like a 5 or 10lb plate? or something a big bigger like a 25?

[fellipe]

I'm elevating my heels by 2/3"

[fellipe]

guys look at these two videos I just recorded:

[cyu]

stretch your hamstrings.

From http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224
Question - Should I use a block under my heels while squatting?

No, for a variety of reasons.

When you raise the heel substantially during a squat, you shift the weight of your body forward, and as a result, your knees can end up taking a disproportionate share of the load.

Experienced physique athletes sometimes do this so they can get better development in their quads, although they generally will not perform squats this way for long. The average joe does this because they lack the flexibility in their hamstrings to perform a squat to depth without rounding their lower back, and by keeping their heels on a block, they are able to reduce the stretch in their hamstrings.

Here's a little test for you...if you have lower back pain when you try to do deep squats wearing a flat soled shoe (i.e. Chuck Taylor's or wrestling shoes), and you DON'T suffer this same lower back pain when you wear work boots (with a heavy heel) or you squat with your heels up on a block, then guess what?

Your hamstrings are too tight. Don't use a block. Stretch your hamstrings instead. Your knees will thank you in the end. By using a block, you merely mask the symptoms without treating the cause.

[NIguy]

^
I think my problem is Inflexible ankles cuz I have a hard time trying to get my knee in front of my toes...

Having some back angle is necessary, horizontal, though, is probably too much.

Things that will make you fall over backwards:

-Trying to literally keep your back vertical
-Keeping your knee directly above your heel while simultaneously trying to keep your back angle too upright
-Inflexible ankles keeping your knees from tracking forward
-Stance too narrow (not that your stance is necessarily too narrow, but a wider stance allows you to squat "between" your legs, which prevents you from falling over backwards).

Basically, it comes down to body mechanics. You need to realize that there is a constant relationship between bar position, back angle, stance width, and knee angle that determines whether or not you fall over. Try some stuff out with a light bar until you get a feel for body position for the squat...it's a move that is very deceptively simple looking.

You don't need to keep your back vertical to the floor. You are positioning the bar very low on your back like a powerlifter which will cause you to bend a bit more then an olympic style squat. Instead of focusing on being vertical, focus on keep your back in the same position from top to bottom. You don't want to go from 45 degrees to 180 or anything but not looking like an L is perfectly acceptable.

If it really bugs you simply place the bar higher up on your back, this will allow you to stand a bit more straight up while squatting.

Firstly the main problem is not a lack of flexibility in your ankles although raising your heals will help you but rather your bar position and biomechanics like the guys above have said.

As far as a squat goes it is fine, powerlifters would call that a squat however if you are looking to maximise overall leg development you want your back to be more vertical - like you said.

Fixes;
-move bar up and do a high bar squat
-stretch hip flexors, hamstring and ankles.

If you have more specific questions I will be happy to answer to them, I personnally had the same problem and spent a long time trying to fix it making many mistakes and encountering many injuries along the way. I can help you navigate that path better, so feel free to PM etc.

[djartek]

guys look at these two videos I just recorded:

They are here: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?p=476514341