For all users of Epistane or P-Plex

[ilalin]

I wouldn't use it if I were you...

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

No wonder some get gyno symptoms with epi-compounds.
I suspect most of the ph or designer steroids on the market are similarly impure. The question is how can you plan your cycle if you don't even know what you're taking, let alone the fact that these molecules have never been tested on humans.
Cheers

Sorry if repost and for those that do not have access to journals please see the abstract below.

[_Smitty_]

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[ilalin]

Sorry,
it seems like I do have access to this peer reviewed journal because of my work . Anyways, here's copy and paste of the abstract:
Analysis of non-ketoic steroids 17-methylepithiostanol and desoxymethyl- testosterone in dietary supplements
Masato Okano *, Mitsuhiko Sato, Ayako Ikekita, Shinji Kageyama
Anti-Doping Centre, Mitsubishi Chemical Medience Corporation, Tokyo, Japan
email: Masato Okano (Okano.Masato@mk.medience.co.jp)
*Correspondence to Masato Okano, Anti-Doping Centre, Mitsubishi Chemical Medience Corporation,3-30-1 Shimura, Itabashi-ku Tokyo, 174-8555, Japan.

KEYWORDS
doping ? desoxymethyltestosterone ? 17-methylepithiostanol ? supplement ? atmospheric pressure photospray ionization ? mass spectrometry
ABSTRACT
Dietary supplements containing 17-methyl-2,3-epithio-5-androstane-17-ol (17-methylepithiostanol), which is a 17-methylated analogue of epithiostanol or a prodrug of desoxymethyltestosterone (17-methyl-5-androst-2-en-17-ol), have recently appeared on the Internet. 17-Methylepithiostanol and desoxymethyltestosterone are classified as prohibited substances on the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) list. Two preparations, EPISTANE TM and P-PLEX TM, were obtained from the Internet so that their contents could be investigated. This study involved gas chromatography/mass spectrometry (GC/MS) analysis after trimethylsilyl (TMS) derivatization, liquid chromatography/mass spectrometry (LC/MS) in atmospheric pressure photoionization (APPI) mode and nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR) spectroscopy. Analysis using LC/MS in APPI mode would be a useful tool for detecting heat-labile and non-polar steroids.
Although the labelling of EPISTANETM indicates that it contains 17-methyl-2, 3-epithio-5-androstane-17-ol only, 17-methyl-2,3-epithio-5-androstane-17-ol and desoxymethyltestosterone were identified in the supplement. The results showed that P-PLEXTM contained desoxymethyltestosterone and its isomer 17-methyl-5-androst-3-en-17-ol. Urine samples can be screened after EPISTANETM or P-PLEXTM administration using the normal screening procedure for anabolic steroids with GC/MS. Copyright ? 2009 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd.
Received: 25 June 2009; Revised: 13 September 2009; Accepted: 14 September 2009

[Ace50]

cliffs?

[_Smitty_]

those who are at the level during which they'd consider these types of products, who should also have done the necessary research, would already be aware that phera is a DMT-derived compound.

the epistane, being a trademark, would have been the IBE product... spiking the product with DMT would certainly be shady practice if we knew of the inclusive amount.

i've read that it'ss created from a 2-ene, which is much like DMT...

brb... tracking the full text down.

[IBE Labs]

first that artical looks fake and also they are not saying that IBE epistane contains DMT why because our epistane is tested by someone that does work for the FDA. DMT and epi are not even close related

those who are at the level during which they'd consider these types of products, who should also have done the necessary research, would already be aware that phera is a DMT-derived compound.

the epistane, being a trademark, would have been the IBE product... spiking the product with DMT would certainly be shady practice if we knew of the inclusive amount.

i've read that it'ss created from a 2-ene, which is much like DMT...

brb... tracking the full text down.

[ilalin]

Both Epistane and P-Plex have been randomly chosen and tested for purity. The Epistane contained three different molecules. The first one was as labeled, second was a variation of the same substance and the third one was phera. So, phera in your Epistane bottle!
The abstract does not say how much of each and I'm to busy to read the whole article right now.
P-Plex showed a correct molecule but also a presence of its isomer (which might not exert the same effect as the original).
In essence the products of what it's supposed to be pure substances are contaminated. When somebody is looking for a compound that does not aromatize they definitely do not want to use phera but unfortunately they might be in this case. Since most of raw products come from China I therefore suspect compromised product. After this and many other previously detected cases, personally I wouldn't consider using any pro-hormone or designer steroid on the market.

[ilalin]

first that artical looks fake and also they are not saying that IBE epistane contains DMT why because our epistane is tested by someone that does work for the FDA. DMT and epi are not even close related

The article is not fake it's just available to me because I have access. The article is online in advance of print and is from a journal called Drug Testing and Analysis.
You can see preview of the articles to be printed here
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...21460645/issue
I don't know if the link will work for you but I can send a PDF to interested parties.

[ryanr623]

I wouldn't use it if I were you...

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...TRY=1&SRETRY=0

No wonder some get gyno symptoms with epi-compounds.
I suspect most of the ph or designer steroids on the market are similarly impure. The question is how can you plan your cycle if you don't even know what you're taking, let alone the fact that these molecules have never been tested on humans.
Cheers

Sorry if repost and for those that do not have access to journals please see the abstract below.

Most, if not all, PH's and DS's are tested for purity, and have a COA.... by an independent third party.

[ilalin]

Most, if not all, PH's and DS's are tested for purity, and have a COA.... by an independent third party.

I did not say PH's and DS's are not tested for purity. I'm talking about the recent research article.

[ryanr623]

I did not say PH's and DS's are not tested for purity.

Meaning the active ingredient that they claim to be in there. So if they say theres 25mg of the active ingredient in a 25mg pill, where are they hiding the DMT?

[ilalin]

those who are at the level during which they'd consider these types of products, who should also have done the necessary research, would already be aware that phera is a DMT-derived compound.

the epistane, being a trademark, would have been the IBE product... spiking the product with DMT would certainly be shady practice if we knew of the inclusive amount.

i've read that it'ss created from a 2-ene, which is much like DMT...

brb... tracking the full text down.

I don't think that Phera is DMT derived. Phera is DMT.

[ilalin]

Meaning the active ingredient that they claim to be in there. So if they say theres 25mg of the active ingredient in a 25mg pill, where are they hiding the DMT?

Please give specific examples. Who's they?
I'm just talking about the article soon to be published. Is it possible that only the two bottles the researchers bought were mistakenly contaminated by the manufacturer or themselves?
Possible but not probable

[_Smitty_]

I don't think that Phera is DMT derived. Phera is DMT.

thanks! i meant to edit that out when i went back in...



and, to the concerned, the article is certainly not a fake.

[ilalin]

thanks! i meant to edit that out when i went back in...



and, to the concerned, the article is certainly not a fake.

No problem

[Patrick Arnold]

those who are at the level during which they'd consider these types of products, who should also have done the necessary research, would already be aware that phera is a DMT-derived compound.

the epistane, being a trademark, would have been the IBE product... spiking the product with DMT would certainly be shady practice if we knew of the inclusive amount.

i've read that it'ss created from a 2-ene, which is much like DMT...

brb... tracking the full text down.

methylepistanol willl spontaneiously break down into dmt. that is why you they see a little dmt in the products. it has nothing to do with spiking. and in fact, its probably likely that dmt is the active compound once you ingest methylepistanol anyway

[Patrick Arnold]

In essence the products of what it's supposed to be pure substances are contaminated. When somebody is looking for a compound that does not aromatize they definitely do not want to use phera but unfortunately they might be in this case. .

DMT should not aromatize

[_Smitty_]

methylepistanol willl spontaneiously break down into dmt. that is why you they see a little dmt in the products. it has nothing to do with spiking. and in fact, its probably likely that dmt is the active compound once you ingest methylepistanol anyway

so the sparse information floating around indicating that it's spawned from a 2-ene is correct? 2-ene being DMT's inception point as well?

and thanks for the clarification, PA.

[khergan]

...and PA swoops down from the heavens and kills the broscience in one fell swoop.

[Patrick Arnold]

so the sparse information floating around indicating that it's spawned from a 2-ene is correct? 2-ene being DMT's inception point as well?

and thanks for the clarification, PA.

dmt is used to make methylepithiostanol.

and heat and low ph will catalyze the loss of a sulfur atom, which regenerates dmt

its pretty impossible to make me methylepi and not have at least a small part of it degenerate back into dmt upon storage i would think. cuz even at norml conditins you will still have the reaction proceeding. thats why you smell sulfur when you open the bottle

[ilalin]

dmt is used to make methylepithiostanol.

and heat and low ph will catalyze the loss of a sulfur atom, which regenerates dmt

its pretty impossible to make me methylepi and not have at least a small part of it degenerate back into dmt upon storage i would think. cuz even at norml conditins you will still have the reaction proceeding. thats why you smell sulfur when you open the bottle

Thanks Patrick.
I learn something new every day. Also, i didn't notice the same sulfur smell in cel e-stane...interesting

[IBE Labs]

methylepistanol willl spontaneiously break down into dmt. that is why you they see a little dmt in the products. it has nothing to do with spiking. and in fact, its probably likely that dmt is the active compound once you ingest methylepistanol anyway

Thanks PA for clarifying......we were in the process of contacting our forensic toxicologist about this information now.
Do you know of anything that we can do to try to prevent this article being published and/or continuing to be available at Wiley with the results looking as though we are spiking our products with DMT?

[Patrick Arnold]

Thanks PA for clarifying......we were in the process of contacting our forensic toxicologist about this information now.
Do you know of anything that we can do to try to prevent this article being published and/or continuing to be available at Wiley with the results looking as though we are spiking our products with DMT?

i would just try to ignore the whole thing if i were you

[_Smitty_]

Thanks PA for clarifying......we were in the process of contacting our forensic toxicologist about this information now.
Do you know of anything that we can do to try to prevent this article being published and/or continuing to be available at Wiley with the results looking as though we are spiking our products with DMT?

it looks like the article's been available since mid-last year.

[IBE Labs]

The article is not fake it's just available to me because I have access. The article is online in advance of print and is from a journal called Drug Testing and Analysis.
You can see preview of the articles to be printed here
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/j...21460645/issue
I don't know if the link will work for you but I can send a PDF to interested parties.

I know the article is not fake....your summation just seemed to be fake or more so unbelievable due to the fact that we test all of our batches and there has never been a hint of an issue involving DMT.
Sorry I jumped the gun in my response, but I will be getting to the bottom of the situation as to why these scientist are concluding this in their analysis.

[ilalin]

I know the article is not fake....your summation just seemed to be fake or more so unbelievable due to the fact that we test all of our batches and there has never been a hint of an issue involving DMT.
Sorry I jumped the gun in my response, but I will be getting to the bottom of the situation as to why these scientist are concluding this in their analysis.

Thanks,
it's good to know that all the batches are tested and you guys are keeping an eye on the situation.
Cheers

[Robboe]

I assume there'll be some more discussion on this at some point after seeing the latest ergolog article. http://www.ergo-log.com/epistane.html

[henryv]

I assume there'll be some more discussion on this at some point after seeing the latest ergolog article. http://www.ergo-log.com/epistane.html

Heh. I wrote about this last month, looks like ergo-log has basically rewritten my article and not given me credit. Am I allowed to post links to other forums?

[Robboe]

Heh. I wrote about this last month, looks like ergo-log has basically rewritten my article and not given me credit. Am I allowed to post links to other forums?

So long as they aren't retailers i don't see why not.

[_Smitty_]

this is a modest dicussion.