Caffeine's effect on cortisol?

[derf87]

Anyone know of a study on how dietary caffeine may influence cortisol? Thanks

[audipotential]

Anyone know of a study on how dietary caffeine may influence cortisol? Thanks

Charles poliquin advocates next to no caffeine because of its effects on cortisol levels

[Patrick Arnold]

Charles poliquin advocates next to no caffeine because of its effects on cortisol levels

talk about not seeing the forest for the trees


caffeine has been shown to do positive things for body composition. Which begs the question, what is your goal? Is it to gain lean muscle or to maintain low serum cortisol? Are you going to go up to chicks and say "yeah well my caffeine consuming buddy here may have better abs but check out these serum cortisol results babe"

[ObedEdom]

talk about not seeing the forest for the trees


caffeine has been shown to do positive things for body composition. Which begs the question, what is your goal? Is it to gain lean muscle or to maintain low serum cortisol? Are you going to go up to chicks and say "yeah well my caffeine consuming buddy here may have better abs but check out these serum cortisol results babe"

doesn't heightened cortisol levels over time increase the chances of lower ab/back adipose deposits?

[papagunz]

doesn't heightened cortisol levels over time increase the chances of lower ab/back adipose deposits?

Assuming a sound diet and sound stim usage, this shouldn't be an issue. It'd be "tough" to redesposit fat in the absence of a caloric surplus.

Some of the issues may stem post diet. (ie: how long you dieted, and how well you taper your calories back to baseline over a prolonged period of time)

[ObedEdom]

Assuming a sound diet and sound stim usage, this shouldn't be an issue. It'd be "tough" to redesposit fat in the absence of a caloric surplus.

Some of the issues may stem post diet. (ie: how long you dieted, and how well you taper your calories back to baseline over a prolonged period of time)

so is there any connection between heightened cortisol levels and obesity/inhibited fat loss?

[papagunz]

so is there any connection between heightened cortisol levels and obesity/inhibited fat loss?

Indeed. However, it's not that simple. I'm not going to pretend that I have vast knowledge on the subject, but I've read a study that shows cortisol can be catabolic to fat as well.

I think the take home lesson here is balance. (not saying that inhibiting cortisol isn't helpful, 11oxo and lean xtreme are very sound, results wise) Lot's of BBer's take the all or nothing approach, and rarely are things that simple.

[in10city]

Anyone know of a study on how dietary caffeine may influence cortisol? Thanks

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...?artid=2257922

You can find others from there.

Elevation appears to be influenced by dose and tolerance. But keep in mind that cortisol is not all bad. The conditions that cause its elevation are just as important to consider.

[Rhetorician]

talk about not seeing the forest for the trees


caffeine has been shown to do positive things for body composition. Which begs the question, what is your goal? Is it to gain lean muscle or to maintain low serum cortisol? Are you going to go up to chicks and say "yeah well my caffeine consuming buddy here may have better abs but check out these serum cortisol results babe"

Odd coming from the creator of 11 OXO? Genuinely curious....PA what do you think about stacking stims with 11 OXO? I'm sure you have answered it somewhere, but I was unable to find it

(I am currently on a cycle of 11 OXO)...have been avoiding stim supps, and have been VERY pleased with my overall changes.

[xspasmx]

Lifting wieghts also increases your cortisol...
The answer to the question is yes.
The point of the discussion is it really does not matter much.
Caffeine has positive effects as well.

[Patrick Arnold]

doesn't heightened cortisol levels over time increase the chances of lower ab/back adipose deposits?

caffeine does not raise cortisol in the long term

ponder this: exercise itself will raise cortisol. So does that mean exercise will cause increase in fat deposit and loss of lean mass? of course not

When you take caffeine you are causing all kinds of physiological changes in your body and the NET EFFECT is a positive thing for your body. Looking at one variable and ignoring the net effect is a big mistake!!

[Patrick Arnold]

Assuming a sound diet and sound stim usage, this shouldn't be an issue. It'd be "tough" to redesposit fat in the absence of a caloric surplus.

Some of the issues may stem post diet. (ie: how long you dieted, and how well you taper your calories back to baseline over a prolonged period of time)

just as an aside, with corticosteroids (as in prescription strong ones or a disease like cushings) you can gain fat on a caloric deficity. your body simply breaks down muscles to amino acids and then to glucose and then uses that glucose to make fat which is then stored

[Patrick Arnold]

Odd coming from the creator of 11 OXO? Genuinely curious....PA what do you think about stacking stims with 11 OXO? I'm sure you have answered it somewhere, but I was unable to find it

(I am currently on a cycle of 11 OXO)...have been avoiding stim supps, and have been VERY pleased with my overall changes.

there should be nothing bad about stacking stims with 11-oxo if your goal is fat loss

[papagunz]

just as an aside, with corticosteroids (as in prescription strong ones or a disease like cushings) you can gain fat on a caloric deficity. your body simply breaks down muscles to amino acids and then to glucose and then uses that glucose to make fat which is then stored

I figured there would be a caveat, hence my reluctance to speak in terms of absolutes.

[Guardian]

The amount of cortisol increase average people get from daily stress and lack of insulin management far exceeds the marginal increase caffeine alone brings.


The whole reason why people gain alot of fat in the abdomin and lower back is actually pretty simple, the body in an effort to compensate for poor diet and health will channel more energy stores in the areas closest to the liver. This way the body has less distance between the source of energy and the liver which converts it. Stimulants increase the bodies energy demands and puts it in a state of stress. However we must realise that unlike sedentary individuals, bodybuilders have much greater energy stores in muscles, which will greatly reduce the risk of increased Visceral fat buildup. Basically, when in energy demand bodybuilders will get more energy from muscles where as other people must depend more heavily on the liver. Therefore in theory cortisol should not effect us in a negative way as much and caffeine use is more safe for its more beneficial effects.

[Patrick Arnold]

The amount of cortisol increase average people get from daily stress and lack of insulin management far exceeds the marginal increase caffeine alone brings.

plus caffeine also simulataneously stimulates the release of adrenergic catecholamines such as norepinephrine and these will counteract alot of the negative physiological effects of cortisol.

[Patrick Arnold]

The whole reason why people gain alot of fat in the abdomin and lower back is actually pretty simple, the body in an effort to compensate for poor diet and health will channel more energy stores in the areas closest to the liver. .

also remember that chronic excessive cortisol will promote a redistribution of bodyfat from the periphery (i.e. limbs to the center (viserca) and also to the face and upper back.

Cortisol is a stress hormone so the goal probably is, like you said, to provide readily available energy stores. Unfortunately our stresses in our modern society do not involve running away from mastadons and climbing cliffs to pick berries, so we never get an opportunity to burn off the ugly cortisol induced fat stores

[ObedEdom]

Unfortunately our stresses in our modern society do not involve running away from mastadons and climbing cliffs to pick berries...

speak for yourself

I do that all the time


strong knowledge in this thread, thanks to everybody that contributed (serious)

[derf87]

This turned out to be a pretty informative thread. Thanks for all the info guys, and especially PA's insight.

[SSK1903]

Caffeine boosts post-workout recovery


BUNDOORA, Australia, July 2 -- Caffeine may help muscles recover quickly after a major workout or competition, a small trial showed.

Muscles regained 66% more glycogen -- their primary fuel -- in the four hours after intense exercise when athletes took the equivalent of five or six cups of coffee with carbohydrates than when they ate carbohydrates alone (P<0.05), reported John A. Hawley, Ph.D., of the Royal Melbourne Institute of Technology University here, and colleagues.

Caffeine normally impairs glucose metabolism during rest in nonathletes, but the opposite appeared to be true after exercise in endurance-trained athletes, they said online in the Journal of Applied Physiology.

However, further research is needed to see if smaller doses could be as effective because caffeine can disturb sleep and cause jitteriness, they said.

Dr. Hawley's group studied seven endurance-trained cyclists and triathletes in the randomized, double-blind trial. The evening before an experiment, they came in to the laboratory to cycle until exhausted then ate a low-carbohydrate dinner.

The next morning subjects again rode until fatigued to maximally deplete muscle glycogen stores, mimicking race conditions.

They were then randomized to consume carbohydrates -- sports bars, gels, and sports drinks conforming with current sports nutrition guidelines -- alone or with 8 mg of caffeine per kg of body weight during four hours of passive recovery.

The same experiment was repeated about 10 days later with the opposite randomization. Participants did not have a caffeine habit and did not eat or drink caffeine-containing substances for two days before the trials.

Blood glucose levels increased in both groups when they ate after exercising. Glucose concentrations gradually decreased over the next 60 to 90 minutes during recovery with carbohydrates alone (P<0.05) but not with caffeine, which was associated with higher levels at three and four hours as well (P<0.05 versus levels at exhaustion).

After exercise, muscle glycogen levels were depleted similarly between groups (74 versus 76 mmol/kg dry weight for control and caffeine, respectively) and recovered to a similar degree after one hour of recovery (133 versus 149 mmol/kg dry weight).

However, caffeine intake boosted glycogen accumulation over the next three hours such that glycogen levels were significantly higher at the end of the four-hour recovery period (313 versus 234 mmol/kg dry weight, P<0.001) for a higher overall resynthesis rate (57.7 versus 38.0 mmol/kg dry weight per hour, P<0.05).

The authors wrote that "the overall (4 h) rate of resynthesis observed in the present investigation with caffeine ingestion is, to the best of our knowledge, the highest reported for human subjects under physiological conditions."

Muscle metabolites showed no impact from the addition of caffeine during recovery, but signaling proteins thought to play roles in skeletal muscle glucose transport were higher with caffeine at the end of the recovery period for phosphorylation of CAMKThr286 (P<0.05) and AktSer473 (P=0.06).

The study was supported by a research grant from GlaxoSmithKline. Dr. Hawley made no financial disclosures.

Primary source: Journal of Applied Physiology
Source reference:
Pedersen DJ, et al "High rates of muscle glycogen resynthesis after exhaustive exercise when carbohydrate is co-ingested with caffeine" J Appl Physiol 2008

[SSK1903]

http://www.warriorfx.com/2008/03/caf...ring-exercise/

By a Kenny Croxdale from Hatfield's forum

Caffeine at doses of 400 milligrams or more tended to cause a small decrease in testosterone after ingestion, but a rapid increase in testosterone began within 15 minutes of exercise. The result was significantly greater than the exercise-only prescription. A hefty 800-milligram caffeine dose produced a 61 percent average increase in testosterone after 60 minutes of resistance training! Adversely, the large dose also resulted in a 51-percent raise in cortisol over the exercise period, which continued to elevate to 93 percent over baseline during the short 30-minute recovery phase post workout.

When the results for exercise and recovery periods were averaged out, the 800-milligram dose raised testosterone 39 percent ? in which 21 percent was attributed to the caffeine intake. However, the peak dose also resulted in a 52 percent average increase in cortisol during exercise and recovery, when compared to exercise alone.

Caffeine can amplify the training-induced secretion of this important anabolic hormone, in a dose-dependent manner. More specifically, doses of 400 milligrams or more exhibited the greatest potential to increase testosterone. But increased doses are also met with an increase in testosterone?s catabolic nemesis: cortisol.

The Muscular Developement article noted the increase in cortisol, as well. However, it went on to say that cortisol can be countered/shut down by consuming carbohydrates. **Nutritionist have stated that is one of the benefits of consuming a post workout carbohydrate drink. A protein-carbodhyrate drink is anti-catabolic...it shuts down cortisol.

Caffeine is used in Excedrin and other pain killers, as you probably know. Another point of the MD article was that basically caffeine numbs any pain during your workout...or as they put it, "caffeine increases you pain tolerance."


--- Caffeine raises both testosterone and cortisol.

[Opies]

John berardi and many others have discussed caffeine's ability to also reduce insulin sensitivity which is another blow against building muscle and burning fat for caffeine, but then again, you won't see me skipping a nice coffee.

[JohnSmeton]

My conclusion is find your sweet spot. This has been discussed before.I prefer lower doses, when you do do caffeine. tyrosine is a good replacing supplement.

800 mgs is consider an overdose I believe don't quote me on it. some people do it everyday. My dad drinks 4 cups of coffee in the morning along with cokes, tea , all day long.

on a personal note I don't do it year round and like to cycle it.

[TheDictionary]

i remember reading in a book that caffeine raises cortisol levels (forgot the name of the book)

[Madevilz]

Good thread, thanks for the info PA

[SinewySam]

For what its worth, regular heavy tea consumption has been shown to reduce cortisol levels.

Isolated caffiene, however, im sure would not have that effect.

[Patrick Arnold]

For what its worth, regular heavy tea consumption has been shown to reduce cortisol levels.

Isolated caffiene, however, im sure would not have that effect.

heavy green tea consumption has been shown to reduce testosterone too

[Skigazzi]

heavy green tea consumption has been shown to reduce testosterone too

..like heavy for a human (4 cups), or heavy for a Mastadon (400 cups) ??

[TheSupremeBeing]

caffeine does not raise cortisol in the long term

ponder this: exercise itself will raise cortisol. So does that mean exercise will cause increase in fat deposit and loss of lean mass? of course not

When you take caffeine you are causing all kinds of physiological changes in your body and the NET EFFECT is a positive thing for your body. Looking at one variable and ignoring the net effect is a big mistake!!

Bingo, great post Pat.

[ChiefRocka]

Well if you suffer from any type of anxiety-like symptoms then caffeine is bad bad bad...Anxiety is caused by increases in the chemicals adrenaline and cortisol, and caffeine increases anxiety (i should know i get bouts of unexplained anxiety). Caffeine increases cortisol which in turn raises anxiety levels. Changes in cortisol levels have been connected to clinical depression, psychological stress and all kinds of physical ailments. I had to cut caffeine out almost completely

A key reliever to anxiety is physical activity because it burns both adrenaline and cortisol.