why does everyone in the workout forum think that starting strength is ...?

[Zanderini]

the end all be all to training for starters and is reccomended to pretty much any and every person no matter their goals?I mean nothing is wrong with it if you are 105lbs and emaciated and have never exercised in your life but it seems like it is way too low of volume,no variety of exercises and does nothing to get me in shape. Also the crazy amount of eating seems like it would add to fat unless once again your very very skinny. Does anyone else agree with me? or is it going to be a flame war.

-i find it as a good program to base your own workouts around with modifications but its not the ultimate beginner routine and mark rippetoe is not the god of exercise knowledge

[T-Bone92]

finally someone agrees

[NewbieX2]

So what would you propose people suggest to the newbies?

[Wildtim]

the end all be all to training for starters and is reccomended to pretty much any and every person no matter their goals?I mean nothing is wrong with it if you are 105lbs and emaciated and have never exercised in your life but it seems like it is way too low of volume,no variety of exercises and does nothing to get me in shape. Also the crazy amount of eating seems like it would add to fat unless once again your very very skinny. Does anyone else agree with me? or is it going to be a flame war.

-i find it as a good program to base your own workouts around with modifications but its not the ultimate beginner routine and mark rippetoe is not the god of exercise knowledge

Most people asking about a routine in this forum are beginners, with no muscle or strength base to work with. Starting Strength builds that.

There is no crazy amount of eating. You only need to eat enough on the program to allow your body to grow as much muscle as possible. For some guys this might be 2500 calories but for most it is more like 3500 and for a growing teen with an active lifestyle who still wants to build more muscle it could be even more like 4000, 5000 or more.

I notice a lot of "seems like" in your post you might want to do a little studying to learn how working out works and what your body needs to grow.

[Farley1324]

Most people asking about a routine in this forum are beginners, with no muscle or strength base to work with. Starting Strength builds that.

There is no crazy amount of eating. You only need to eat enough on the program to allow your body to grow as much muscle as possible. For some guys this might be 2500 calories but for most it is more like 3500 and for a growing teen with an active lifestyle who still wants to build more muscle it could be even more like 4000, 5000 or more.

I notice a lot of "seems like" in your post you might want to do a little studying to learn how working out works and what your body needs to grow.

This.

It is a very good novice routine which is based, of course, on building strength. There are other very good novice routines out there, this is but one.

I suggest it quite a bit. Why? It worked for me. I've run it twice, once in spring-summer of 2008 and then again jan-current (May 2010). I never trained seriously/properly other than those months. Using nothing but SS I 've managed to squat 300 3x5, bench 225 3x5, press 145 3x5, deadlift 330x5.... And this is after only a few months of training on SS. You can't argue with results, and results while following SS are everywhere you look. Seems pretty damn effective to me.

[Zanderini]

Most people asking about a routine in this forum are beginners, with no muscle or strength base to work with. Starting Strength builds that.

There is no crazy amount of eating. You only need to eat enough on the program to allow your body to grow as much muscle as possible. For some guys this might be 2500 calories but for most it is more like 3500 and for a growing teen with an active lifestyle who still wants to build more muscle it could be even more like 4000, 5000 or more.

I notice a lot of "seems like" in your post you might want to do a little studying to learn how working out works and what your body needs to grow.

i have studied a lot and am anal about my workouts and nutrition. I take certain aspects from starting strength in my workouts i base them around cleans squats,presses,bench and pull ups.Also the three time a week idea.

I do loads of research and understand how training stimulus and nutrition play into gaining strength and mass

[Zanderini]

So what would you propose people suggest to the newbies?

im not trying to propose programs for people or suggesting something is a lot better i was just wondering about this and why people feel like it is sacreligious not to do SS

[Farley1324]

i have studied a lot and am anal about my workouts and nutrition. I take certain aspects from starting strength in my workouts i base them around cleans squats,presses,bench and pull ups.Also the three time a week idea.

I do loads of research and understand how training stimulus and nutrition play into gaining strength and mass

Then you are well aware that suggesting a novice lifter who comes on here with tons of questions, little experience and little direction follow SS (or another cookie cutter novice program) is generally a pretty good idea.

[Wildtim]

Three times a week and compund movements are the least part of SS. The key really is the pushing of your limits in a simple progressive way workout to workout the setting of goals and targeting your entire workout program to meet them.

[rrich1]

it "seems" that you have never ran the program before.

[Farley1324]

Three times a week and compund movements are the least part of SS. The key really is the pushing of your limits in a simple progressive way workout to workout the setting of goals and targeting your entire workout program to meet them.

Yes. It's pretty simple, really. Do the big three plus press and power cleans, split them up into two different workouts so the volume isn't too much, do those workouts three times a week, add weight every time.

[Zanderini]

it "seems" that you have never ran the program before.

no nore do i have an interest in running it. Id rather run 5/3/1 or something of the like. i understand it is easy but it just seems like it is not enough work for me or productive to my goals. i prefer to include oly lifts along with squat benching and pull ups and base it off percentage max instead of linear progression

[Farley1324]

i have studied a lot

. i understand it is easy but it just seems like it is not enough work for me

You lie.


It is not easy. And it is plenty of work. If you studied a lot you would know this and you certainly wouldn't profess to have all this knowledge then play out the cliche "not enough work for me" line.


What have you done instead and how strong are you as a result?

[ironwill2008]

the end all be all to training for starters and is reccomended to pretty much any and every person no matter their goals?

Tell you what---from here on out, every noob that posts a question about "What routine should I use?"--you answer them, to the best of your ability.

I'll stay out of those threads from here on out, and let you handle them all.


ETA: better brew up a pot of coffee; you're going to be really busy writing up a custom routine for every noob in this forum. Good luck.

[Zanderini]

You lie.


It is not easy. And it is plenty of work.

i meant easy to reccomend not is the program easy, i understand that it is not easy if you run it as directed adding the reccomened weights each session. i basically do a modified verson of it so im not totally dissing it

[rocking_g_real]

im not trying to propose programs for people or suggesting something is a lot better i was just wondering about this and why people feel like it is sacreligious not to do SS

Because most of the time, what the "not to do so" option ends up resembling is a broken mess, full of poorly thought-out exercise choices, inefficient training schedules & imbalanced routines.

[Zanderini]

Tell you what---from here on out, every noob that posts a question about "What routine should I use?"--you answer them, to the best of your ability.

I'll stay out of those threads from here on out, and let you handle them all.


ETA: better brew up a pot of coffee; you're going to be really busy writing up a custom routine for every noob in this forum. Good luck.

i feel a customized routine to meet needs of the individual is important. I dont have the time to create custom routines for all starters. Im not dissing the routine im just trying to figure out wht people view ripptoe like god and worship his routine i have nothing against it at all i just feel it doesnt suit me

[Wildtim]

no nore do i have an interest in running it. Id rather run 5/3/1 or something of the like. i understand it is easy but it just seems like it is not enough work for me or productive to my goals. i prefer to include oly lifts along with squat benching and pull ups and base it off percentage max instead of linear progression

You do realize that 5,3,1 is a slower progression with lower volume. Its main advantage is its ability to be run for a longer time past the beginner phase of lifting and to make already strong guys stronger. In other words it is pretty decent program to follow starting strength, but if you can still gain on Starting Strength you are progressing far slower than you have to by doing 5,3,1.

[Farley1324]

im not trying to propose programs for people or suggesting something is a lot better i was just wondering about this and why people feel like it is sacreligious not to do SS

I don't think any regulars feel that way. There are plenty of other quality novice routines. SS is simply one of, if not the, most popular around here. In part because it is so very specific without being complicated. It flat out tells you everything, and there are tons of resources to point people towards they can read to learn more. There are also a lot of members who have or are running the program that can offer their own personal experiences.

[Farley1324]

i feel a customized routine to meet needs of the individual is important. i dont have the time to create custom routines for all starters. Im not dissing the routine im just trying to figure out wht people view ripptoe like god and worship his routine i have nothing against it at all i just feel it doesnt suit me

ding ding ding!

i feel a customized routine to meet needs of the individual is important. I dont have the time to create custom routines for all starters. Im not dissing the routine im just trying to figure out wht people view ripptoe like god and worship his routine i have nothing against it at all i just feel it doesnt suit me

It doesn't suit you? Because it's not enough work? And you havn't even tried it?

And even if it really doesn't suit you....then don't do it. It's that simple. If you have the experience/knowledge to make yourself a better program then, by all means, do it

[Wildtim]

Also because the book provides complete and correct instruction in performing the lifts correctly.

[Zanderini]

You do realize that 5,3,1 is a slower progression with lower volume. Its main advantage is its ability to be run for a longer time past the beginner phase of lifting and to make already strong guys stronger. In other words it is pretty decent program to follow starting strength, but if you can still gain on Starting Strength you are progressing far slower than you have to by doing 5,3,1.

i realize that but i like that it has accesorry work that is much more comprehnesive in my opinion and i like that it is based off perectages and weights you can handle versus linear progression

[ThiZzNation925]

ultimate beginner routine and mark rippetoe is not the god of exercise knowledge

Ultimate beginner routine for what? A triathelete is not going to run SS. That would be completely pointless.

People that come onto this site (let me reassure here, BODYBUILDING.COM) and ask for a program to start are generally people that want to increase their strength/size. 5lbs a workout is 10 lbs a week on the big 3, or 100 lbs over a 10 week period. You think you could come up with a better routine that would add 100lbs to your squat, deadlift, and bench press (with significant gains in OH press and clean (row) as well)? Or could you at least point out a more effective strength based routine that could achieve the above mentioned in the same amount of time?

Even if your goals are to be big you still have to do some strength training. "I'm big, because I'm strong." - Levrone

You are correct about one thing - MR is not the god of exercise knowledge. He is however a major player in strength coaching and I would bet all my pennies that he knows more about your own body than you do.

[Wildtim]

Which is why it is slower, and less appropritate for a beginning lifter. The accessory work is also unnecessary for a complete beginner and won't help them in any way. Once you progress to needing acessory work 5,3,1's acessory work and starting strengths is very similar.

[Farley1324]

i realize that but i like that it has accesorry work that is much more comprehnesive in my opinion and i like that it is based off perectages and weights you can handle versus linear progression

So, how much weight are you moving and after how much time? I think this is a fair question considering how much of what you are putting forth is said to be based on your personal experiences.

[ironwill2008]

i feel a customized routine to meet needs of the individual is important. I dont have the time to create custom routines for all starters. Im not dissing the routine im just trying to figure out wht people view ripptoe like god and worship his routine i have nothing against it at all i just feel it doesnt suit me

Not only are you veering away from your original post in this thread, but you're entirely missing the point to which everyone else in here is attempting to aware you.


The thread posting in this forum is dominated by noobs greener than grass. They don't need anything "customized." Good grief, most of them don't even know they also have to eat, as well as lift weights in order to get bigger/stronger.



BTW, you need to get busy; there are at least a dozen threads in this forum that are requiring beginner's routines.

[Farley1324]

Not only are you veering away from your original post in this thread, but you're entirely missing the point to which everyone else in here is attempting to aware you.


The thread posting in this forum is dominated by noobs greener than grass. They don't need anything "customized." Good grief, most of them don't even know they also have to eat, as well as lift weights in order to get bigger/stronger.

Yup. The "I hit a plateua" accompanied by "I havn't gained weight for two months" crowd who is 5'10" 155 lbs never ceases.

[Zanderini]

Ultimate beginner routine for what? A triathelete is not going to run SS. That would be completely pointless.

People that come onto this site (let me reassure here, BODYBUILDING.COM) and ask for a program to start are generally people that want to increase their strength/size. 5lbs a workout is 10 lbs a week on the big 3, or 100 lbs over a 10 week period. You think you could come up with a better routine that would add 100lbs to your squat, deadlift, and bench press (with significant gains in OH press and clean (row) as well)? Or could you at least point out a more effective strength based routine that could achieve the above mentioned in the same amount of time?

Even if your goals are to be big you still have to do some strength training. "I'm big, because I'm strong." - Levrone

You are correct about one thing - MR is not the god of exercise knowledge. He is however a major player in strength coaching and I would bet all my pennies that he knows more about your own body than you do.

i perform strength based traing in the 2-5 rep range. im not saying a BB split is better. I dont know of anything that works that well or many people that add that kind of weight a workout.

Not only are you veering away from your original post in this thread, but you're entirely missing the point to which everyone else in here is attempting to aware you.


The thread posting in this forum is dominated by noobs greener than grass. They don't need anything "customized." Good grief, most of them don't even know they also have to eat, as well as lift weights in order to get bigger/stronger.



BTW, you need to get busy; there are at least a dozen threads in this forum that are requiring beginner's routines.

i am open to hearing why people think SS is so great.that was the point of my thread anything to help me understand better is appreciated and the above post are of great help

Yup. The "I hit a plateua" accompanied by "I havn't gained weight for two months" crowd who is 5'10" 155 lbs never ceases.

agreed. although i am in that smaller 155-160 range it is by choice not by not understanding

[Farley1324]

i am open to hearing why people think SS is so great.

Again, I say you lie. You have not done a lot of studying.


SS is great because it works

[serval]

im not trying to propose programs for people or suggesting something is a lot better i was just wondering about this and why people feel like it is sacreligious not to do SS

its basic collective psychology... once people find something that works or makes sense it becomes the answer to everything. generally, people aren't continuously inquisitive and reflective and they lack the capacity to integrate information and contextualize it - think what happens in politics as a parallel