AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part IIII

[GKC45]

When I first started this routine I forgot about the heavy/med/light days so I was just lifting as heavy as I could every workout day.
I'm on Cycle 3 Week 2 now and I haven't stalled at all, been progressing well. Is there a downside to having 3 heavy days instead of HML?

I'm assuming there are heavy/med/light days to make people less likely to stall/give you enough time to recover, but my recovery's pretty good.
I'm planning on just sticking with going heavy every day until I start to stall, then I'll consider swapping to HML.
Any thoughts?

You may be able to get away with that for a while if you are eating/resting right. It will catch up to you eventually. My thinking is that if you can manage not only a second heavy day, but a third as well, than your 10RM is/was probably underestimated. I feel completely fried after my heavy day. If you don't feel that way, up your weights. You are most likely missing out on some real gains.

Ok, I have NO idea why but I thought I was meant to be doing 3 work sets.

For the past few months I've been doing 3 work sets instead of 2 and seen significant strength gains and some hypertrophy -

lifts went somewhat like this:

squats: 50-90kg
bench: 35-60kg
bent over rows: 30-50kg
overhead barbell press: 20-35kg
SLDL: 60-75 to 90ish (not maxing out because I don't feel the hamstring stretch when I do, only lower back. figure low weight but targeting hamstrings is the best way to do the exercise)
curls: 25-35
calves: mixing it up from calf presses to seated/standing calf raises trying to decide which i like the most, currently doing roughly 15-20 reps of 120 on the leg press)

is there any detriment to doing it like this? this week I've fixed it and only doing 2 work sets - I think it may have been taxing my body a little too much on heavy days especially with 3 sets of deads. will this have affected my strength/hypertrophy gains at all? I feel with 2 work sets I can really push myself with a higher weight as it was getting to a point where I was lifting pretty heavy in comparison to my body weight (5"10 160lb) that 3 sets was probably a bit much.

basically just wondering if there would be a major difference between doing 2 work sets and 3.

cheers!

Similar answer to above. If you are doing more work, and not completely fried after heavy day, your 10rm is too low. Try adding an additional 10% across the board and go back to two sets. Try it for 2 or 3 weeks and let us know how it goes. I bet you will be pleasantly surprised. I could knock 20% off my 10rm and do endless sets, but what's the point?

I'm in cycle 2 week 3 and I've been attempting to bulk. a typical day for me is between 2500-3000 calories, 180 g protein, 113 g fat, 234 g carbs. One of my pictures below shows me flexing and the other shows what my stomach looks like unflexed. It protrudes out and feels like a springy, firm balloon. I dont understand why. I would think if it was all fat it would be mushy and flabby.

Also, I havent progressed in muscle size or definition at all it seems, though I have gained about 10 days. Im getting pretty unmotivated and worried about my stomach. I dont know why it looks like that and whether I should really start doing cardio or whether I should commit to bulking to gain muscle mass.

What would you say is wrong with my stomach/me? And how can I gain mass while flattening my pregnant bulge?

p.s. If there is a better place to look for help please tell me where else to post this

Let's work through this. Your diet sucks. What does between 2500-3000 calories even mean? It means you are completely winging it. Your macro break down is a disaster and completely off track. Even though you are a pretty thin guy, a bad diet can add fat. Follow this link and get your diet in check- http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...1703981&page=1

Not sure if it was answered before but here goes:

I'm very curious about why the heavy lifting is at the beginning of the week and light is at the end?

The heavy day is very taxing on your CNS. Notice I didn't say muscles. Your CNS needs time to grow/adapt. The idea is fry it on heavy day, and keep up the volume with moderate weight on medium. Light day is purely for volume. As answered in the first two posts above, if you feel you can do more/heavier work all week, than your 10rm is too low. Also, beware the "Superman effect" in the first few cycles. By the time you start getting into C3 W4-5, that feeling goes away and you will be feeling dog ass tired. Just run the program as written.

On Cycle 3 of the program, my bench was 135lb last cycle, so when increased 10% it goes to 148.5. I do 2 heavy days a week instead of 3 HML days because of time schedule. I've done first day of cycle 3 already at 150lbs for bench (it's one of my stronger lifts and doesn't seem to be a problem to round up), my only problem is I get some bending in my left wrist doing this, yet I don't want to settle for a 10lbs increase in weight when I can do the whole 15 because of that one detail....

Any suggestions?

That "one detail" is called form. Like the guys above, you out-smarted the program. Now you are seeing the consequence- your form is bad. Keep at it with bad form and watch the injuries start. And while you sit for months healing your wrist, there goes your gains.... I understand if time constraints limit you to two heavy days, but understand that gains will suffer in the long term as a result. When I say your gains will suffer, I mean you can't stick with the 10% progression. Your routine does not have enough volume and your tendons/ligaments are feeling the strain as a result.

I made it through cycle 2 without a hitch, but I've been stalling on several exercises even on week 3 of cycle 3. I actually dropped back to my cycle 2 10RM weights for curls and OHP, and I stalled on the 11th rep this week on my second work set for bench presses (had to put the bar on the lower hooks).

I don't know if its my diet or what but I am not making gains at the rate that I should and actually feel like I've regressed with several exercises. I just realized that I've been eating ~1g per lb of body weight or less every day up to this point - perhaps that is the issue? I've read through the Emma thread and seen that 1 - 1.25g is recommended so I'm going to try to stick to the higher end of that range.

I've been eating at a slight surplus to bulk this entire time, but I guess that regardless of whether I'm cutting or bulking, eating the amount of protein I was eating before would prevent getting strength gains?

Everybody stalls somewhere, so don't sweat that too much. Make sure you are eating right (sounds like you are), get enough sleep, and keep at it. Stalling for a cycle is normal. Keep your weights the same and keep on keepin on.

Hello everyone! I am about to start this routine and I went to the gym to test my 10 rep max. Unfortunately the weights are too low :/

Squats: 30 kg for 12 reps with good form
Bench Press: 30 kg for 12 reps with not so good form
Bent Over Rows: 30 kg for 10 reps with good form
Overhead Press: 15 kg for 10 reps with good form
SLDL: 30 kg for 10 reps with not so good form (I am new to this exercise)
Barbell Curls: 20 kg for 10 reps with good form
Calf Raises: 50 kg for 10 reps with good form

As you can see the weights are low and the empty bar is 20 kg. Should I follow this routine or change to a strength oriented one?

Thank you!

That's a personal call. Lots of people start with light weight and run the program successfully. If you are really bothered by it, switch to a strength based program for a few months until your numbers are where you want them. Some programs focus solely on strength gains, some only work on aesthetics. AllPros is designed to increase strength and aesthetics. What are your goals?

On medium and light days do you still do the same amount of reps as you would on the heavy day?

Yep!

[Umiko]

too many quotes but thanks to the ones who answer my question!

[ThanosD]

That's a personal call. Lots of people start with light weight and run the program successfully. If you are really bothered by it, switch to a strength based program for a few months until your numbers are where you want them. Some programs focus solely on strength gains, some only work on aesthetics. AllPros is designed to increase strength and aesthetics. What are your goals?

I am going for aesthetics. There problem is the low weights. For example the overhead press is 20 kg for heavy day(empty barbell). That means the light warm up is only 5 kg. Too low

[Electrophoresis]

cycle 3 week 1 medium day - I felt like I lost all my strength

failed squat on 2nd set at the third rep....
didn't have enough energy to finish the workout...
felt like sht, probs the worst workout of my life...

I'm going to assume this happened because I had 6hrs low quality sleep, I hope it doesn't stay this way.

[Electrolytes]

I am going for aesthetics. There problem is the low weights. For example the overhead press is 20 kg for heavy day(empty barbell). That means the light warm up is only 5 kg. Too low

You don't need to warm up for the overhead press

[davidolson22]

didn't have enough energy to finish the workout...
felt like sht, probs the worst workout of my life...

I'm going to assume this happened because I had 6hrs low quality sleep, I hope it doesn't stay this way.

Probably. COuld possibly be compounded by low cals (I don't know your diet)?

[FitnessFan76]

Right - so that's C4W4 in the books! Next up: test day. On the subject of BOR, now I'm bending over more the exercise is tougher and I can feel it a hell of a lot more in my lats. I was wondering though - given it's this late in the cycle, should I stick with the form I was using before and start the next cycle more bent over?

Electro - that sucks! Maybe it was down to the lack of sleep - see how it goes.

[diffuse]

On Cycle 3 of the program, my bench was 135lb last cycle, so when increased 10% it goes to 148.5. I do 2 heavy days a week instead of 3 HML days because of time schedule. I've done first day of cycle 3 already at 150lbs for bench (it's one of my stronger lifts and doesn't seem to be a problem to round up), my only problem is I get some bending in my left wrist doing this, yet I don't want to settle for a 10lbs increase in weight when I can do the whole 15 because of that one detail....

Any suggestions?

I have to chime in here. I see everyone suggesting you not go up in weight because you can't do it with good form. The weight increase is not the problem, the heavier weight is simply exposing a weakness (your form) that was there even before you increased the weight. The root problem is your form, and staying at a lighter weight is not going to correct that.

I've had similar problems, try shifting the position of the bar more towards the butt of your hand to avoid your wrist from bending in the first place. Whether to increase the weight or not depends on if you feel comfortable experimenting with new form at this heavier weight. My two cents.

[x0dinx]

Just wanted to say thanks to all those who have contributed to this thread, as a newb, it's been most helpful.

Currently on my first cycle, just completed wk3 today.

Slowly increasing my calories each week from a deficit to a small surplus, hoping this programme will support a nice long slow bulk!

[GKC45]

Right - so that's C4W4 in the books! Next up: test day. On the subject of BOR, now I'm bending over more the exercise is tougher and I can feel it a hell of a lot more in my lats. I was wondering though - given it's this late in the cycle, should I stick with the form I was using before and start the next cycle more bent over?

Electro - that sucks! Maybe it was down to the lack of sleep - see how it goes.

I would correct the form now. In your case, starting on the next heavy day. Why wait?

I have to chime in here. I see everyone suggesting you not go up in weight because you can't do it with good form. The weight increase is not the problem, the heavier weight is simply exposing a weakness (your form) that was there even before you increased the weight. The root problem is your form, and staying at a lighter weight is not going to correct that.

I've had similar problems, try shifting the position of the bar more towards the butt of your hand to avoid your wrist from bending in the first place. Whether to increase the weight or not depends on if you feel comfortable experimenting with new form at this heavier weight. My two cents.

I want to avoid semantics here, so I will say I agree with you, but if you can't get the form right with a particular weight, how is increasing it going to solve the problem? Fix the form problem and then move on.

cycle 3 week 1 medium day - I felt like I lost all my strength

failed squat on 2nd set at the third rep....
didn't have enough energy to finish the workout...
felt like sht, probs the worst workout of my life...

I'm going to assume this happened because I had 6hrs low quality sleep, I hope it doesn't stay this way.

Sh;t happens. Just remember that you are the man and go at it again next time.

[Olegru]

That "one detail" is called form. Like the guys above, you out-smarted the program. Now you are seeing the consequence- your form is bad. Keep at it with bad form and watch the injuries start. And while you sit for months healing your wrist, there goes your gains.... I understand if time constraints limit you to two heavy days, but understand that gains will suffer in the long term as a result. When I say your gains will suffer, I mean you can't stick with the 10% progression. Your routine does not have enough volume and your tendons/ligaments are feeling the strain as a result.

Thanks for that input brotha, and I understand that it's called form.

I did not outsmart anything, as recommended by All Pro and many other veterans of this program I am doing 2 heavy days instead of 3 days of heavy medium light because of time constraints As far as enough volume, I don't know - I sometimes psychologically feel not enough volume, but as I said, based on what was written by the one who made the program and people experienced on it - 2 heavy days to replace the 3 days is abs fine.

My dilemma was more about increasing from 135 to 148.5 and which way to round that increase (to 145 or 150 a diff of 5 pounds) and I chose 150 for my first say as benchpress is one of my stronger exercies

The advice I was looking for was whether I should actually round to 145 because of the slight bend in left wrist or perhaps get some kind of wrist wraps or something!

I have to chime in here. I see everyone suggesting you not go up in weight because you can't do it with good form. The weight increase is not the problem, the heavier weight is simply exposing a weakness (your form) that was there even before you increased the weight. The root problem is your form, and staying at a lighter weight is not going to correct that.

I've had similar problems, try shifting the position of the bar more towards the butt of your hand to avoid your wrist from bending in the first place. Whether to increase the weight or not depends on if you feel comfortable experimenting with new form at this heavier weight. My two cents.

Thank you as well, and yeah - I used to weight lift a lot back 6-7 years ago, and even when I was comfortably benching in the 215-240 ranges, I had the problems with the wrists (not pain, but bending, which of course I dont want to lead to an injury) - I've always had fairly weak forearms/wrists, that's y even at 200 lbs back in the day and being a big guy I wasn't able to beat many small guys in arm wrestling.

If you can't keep good form then the lift is too heavy. You should drop down to a suitable weight, and maybe work on your forearms. Remember, you've got to jump a rep each week. It's just going to get worse.

Regardless of what you do, don't get hurt. We had our differences in the ice cream thread, but I do wish you the best.

As I wrote in the answer to Mr. Diffuse above, my forearms and wrists have always been a weak point - yet my bench has been a strong point - putting me in a dilemma (please read the 2 sentence answer to quote above yours as it will explain what i'm writing). The left wrist kinda bends, but doesn't hurt, and it's just 2x a week for one exercise, I was hoping that maybe I could use some kind of support or something.
Thank you for your wishes of good health and progress, I wish you the same as well!

P.s. Perhaps a pint of B&Js everyday before the gym will get that wrist to cooperate ))

[GKC45]

Thanks for that input brotha, and I understand that it's called form.

I did not outsmart anything, as recommended by All Pro and many other veterans of this program I am doing 2 heavy days instead of 3 days of heavy medium light because of time constraints As far as enough volume, I don't know - I sometimes psychologically feel not enough volume, but as I said, based on what was written by the one who made the program and people experienced on it - 2 heavy days to replace the 3 days is abs fine.

My dilemma was more about increasing from 135 to 148.5 and which way to round that increase (to 145 or 150 a diff of 5 pounds) and I chose 150 for my first say as benchpress is one of my stronger exercies

The advice I was looking for was whether I should actually round to 145 because of the slight bend in left wrist or perhaps get some kind of wrist wraps or something!

I think my response sounded sarcastic? There was no sarcasm when I wrote it. Just good intentions. I would stick with the 145 while you get the wrist issue straightened out. jmho

[diffuse]

I want to avoid semantics here, so I will say I agree with you, but if you can't get the form right with a particular weight, how is increasing it going to solve the problem? Fix the form problem and then move on.

You've twisted my advice. I don't think increasing weight is going to solve his problem. I also don't think staying at the same weight will solve his problem. I think changing the position of the bar on his hand will, weight being totally irrelevant. Not trying to disagree with you at all, maybe your advice of advancing to fast and form going to hell is spot on? I don't know his situation, but have struggled with wrist issues in the past myself. This was my solution. I'd hate to see him wait 5 weeks (per everyone advice), only to find his wrist hurts again when he adds the same weight next cycle. A simple positioning tweak could immediately resolve the issue.

[Olegru]

I think my response sounded sarcastic? There was no sarcasm when I wrote it. Just good intentions. I would stick with the 145 while you get the wrist issue straightened out. jmho

Maybe a bit, but it's all good, happens on the forums all the time, esp when there's ppl actually trying to cheat or even worse talk about how they gonna change the program - start off with chin ups, do some tri extensions etc. lmao. But yeah obviously good intentions were understood and well received my friend. Thanks for the input. Is there any recomended forms of support I could buy for the wrist or exercises I could do in order to keep it injury free and prevent a weak point?

[diffuse]

forearms and wrists have always been a weak point

This is how I always felt too. Focus on where the bar sits in your hand. Try to keep your wrists in a neutral position. This holds true for curls and the like. I noticed several other people posting about forearm pains when curling, but got distracted and never responded. Same concept, your wrists take too much stress and are contorted from their neutral position.

Just don't drop the bar on your face!

[GKC45]

Maybe a bit, but it's all good, happens on the forums all the time, esp when there's ppl actually trying to cheat or even worse talk about how they gonna change the program - start off with chin ups, do some tri extensions etc. lmao. But yeah obviously good intentions were understood and well received my friend. Thanks for the input. Is there any recomended forms of support I could buy for the wrist or exercises I could do in order to keep it injury free and prevent a weak point?

I watch this video every couple of weeks. He is a little harsh, but there is a lot of great info in there. He talks a bit about hand positioning and grip, among other things.

[diffuse]

Is there any recomended forms of support I could buy for the wrist or exercises I could do in order to keep it injury free and prevent a weak point?

Wish I had read this post before my previous reply, but just to reiterate; Try to always keep your wrists in a neutral position.

[Olegru]

diffuse and GKC 45

Here is a pretty good illustration I found on Google images of my wrist thing. It doesn't hurt or anything, but of course I'm conscious of it as I do not want it to eventually wear into an injury.

In this picture his left wrist is straight (like I keep my right) and his right wrist is bent in a bit to the center (like my left gets)

[GKC45]

It's hard to tell if that is just camera perspective. Try gripping the bar tightly and see if that doesn't straighten things up. During the push, I like to bring my elbows in slightly and imagine I am snapping the bar in half like a twig. This really helps keep my wrists aligned nicely.

[bertishere]

i've gone from 168-184lbs and noticed a small increase in size.

i don't think this program is working for me. what do you guys suggest? i'm eating a calorie surplus as i've gained weight, but i feel that from may-now i should have seen better results.

i'm kind of discouraged too be honest.

i'm cycle 3, week 4 next week.

what do you guys think?

[Vaylor]

i've gone from 168-184lbs and noticed a small increase in size.

i don't think this program is working for me. what do you guys suggest? i'm eating a calorie surplus as i've gained weight, but i feel that from may-now i should have seen better results.

i'm kind of discouraged too be honest.

i'm cycle 3, week 4 next week.

what do you guys think?

- What are your calories and Macros?
- How long have you been bulking?

[davidolson22]

i've gone from 168-184lbs and noticed a small increase in size.
i'm cycle 3, week 4 next week.

Are you aware that you can't build much more than about 25 pounds of muscle in a year, and that's the first year, and every year after that it's less? Not sure why yo uare depressed with yoru results so far, you didn't list any reasons to be depressed. Clearly your weight gain is fine.

[Olegru]

i've gone from 168-184lbs and noticed a small increase in size.

16 pounds - small size increase?! LOL, are you trolling??

[samoas]

If I have a herniated disc in my lower back that won't allow me to do squats, deadlifts, and BORs, can I still do AllPros and just switch up the 3 exercises for something else? Or should I just create my own workout program into a 3 day split? I've been currently lifting for 2 years straight and am looking to primarily gain mass.

[bertishere]

- What are your calories and Macros?
- How long have you been bulking?

since may.

3000 calories every day since starting the program may 20, 2013.

Are you aware that you can't build much more than about 25 pounds of muscle in a year, and that's the first year, and every year after that it's less? Not sure why yo uare depressed with yoru results so far, you didn't list any reasons to be depressed. Clearly your weight gain is fine.

16 pounds - small size increase?! LOL, are you trolling??

i'm not.. here are pics from then till now.

[Olegru]

i'm not.. here are pics from then till now.

How active are you during the week? How many days do you lift? How many days cardio? what do you do the other others of your days?

Even if you are moderately active - lift 3 times a week and shoot some ball a couple of times, and I'm gauging you at like a 15% BF (though I don't know how accurate that is), at your current weight, you need about 2900 calories just to maintain your current weight buddy. You're a big tall guy, If you are eating 3000, and it's not exact (as calorie counting often isn't), you are almost at maintenance. Try eating 3400 with at least .45 of ur bodyweight in fat and at least .8 of your bodyweight in protein (grams of course on both of these), continue your allpros program, and don't go crazy on the cardio - you should grow and see gains.

Also, do you eat a lot of salt/carbs? Looking at your pics, the bloating of your upper-belly seems like you are holding water (might be just an off-guess though)

[stokehouse111]

Hey guys just looking for some quick advice on what to do when I didn't reach the required reps.

I know in the FAQ it says you do the same weight in the next cycle, but in that example he misses the final rep on week 5 of the cycle, in my case it is mid cycle.

in my case I'm on cycle 1, week 3 (10 reps) and i only hit 8 reps on my second set of overhead press on heavy day

so for my medium and light workouts this week I should aim for 10?

for my heavy workout next week do I do all the exercises on 10 reps again? or move them to 11 and just fail to reach the reps on OHP for the rest of this cycle? reduce what's on the bar?

any advice will be appreciated and measly repped!

[x0dinx]

in my case I'm on cycle 1, week 3 (10 reps) and i only hit 8 reps on my second set of overhead press on heavy day

so for my medium and light workouts this week I should aim for 10?

Yes.

for my heavy workout next week do I do all the exercises on 10 reps again? or move them to 11

Answers in Bold.

Just because you failed week 3 on OHP, doesn't mean you won't hit all reps on week 4!

I would suggest if you fail week 4, maybe reduce the weight down a bit, you may have miscalculated your 10 rpm, you're only on cycle 1, things are only gonna get harder!

[nicname]

Right - so that's C4W4 in the books! Next up: test day. On the subject of BOR, now I'm bending over more the exercise is tougher and I can feel it a hell of a lot more in my lats. I was wondering though - given it's this late in the cycle, should I stick with the form I was using before and start the next cycle more bent over?

Electro - that sucks! Maybe it was down to the lack of sleep - see how it goes.

Just because being more parallel to the ground is tougher doesn't mean it is harder on the lats. Dorian Yate believes the lats are hit harder at a less than parallel angle.

just youtube search: dorian yates bent rows

[nexus9053]

Hey guys,
This is my first post here and I'm a complete new comer to lifting!

I was wondering if Whilst I'm losing my fat 2lb per week at 1340 cals a day, should I still lift?

If I should lift, should I still follow this workout?

Since I'm completely new to lifting I struggle to dumbbell press 11kg in each arm and I'm worried.

Before anyone tells me to join a gym etc, I cannot as I have no self confidence and I'm really wanting to make the most of it from home.
Sadly I do not have space for a power rack either

Any advice and help would be wonderful as I really want to get a better strength!

Also when doing the sets is it a must to hit all the required reps for that set? Eg 8 reps every set?

Thanks in advance guys.