I know hypothetical questions aren't great, but I'm just trying to keep things simple for clarification.
Let's say, I'm trying to meet a specific calorie count for each day in order to lose, or gain weight. We'll just use 2000 for example.
And let's say, it's near the end of the day, and I've already gotten enough protein for the day (1 g per lb of body weight). But I'm still 200 calories short of my daily allowance.
Does it matter where I get these 200 calories? I feel like having a protein/complex carb snack would be far superior than 200 calories of lard oil.
Another example/question. Let's say I need 2000 calories a day to maintain my weight. But I only ate 1800 calories of fat. Would I lose weight? It just seems so hard to comprehend.
Would the weight still be lost, but the body composition be changed? How would this affect one's body fat % ?
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Thread: Fats vs. Carbs
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05-26-2011, 09:09 AM #31
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05-26-2011, 10:19 AM #32
On the first example, I would make sure both protein and fat macros were reached
Second example, highly doubt anyone would eat 1,800 of pure fat. That would be a lot of oils, butters and such. Most fats come with other macronutrients Yes, the weight would slowly decrease but you would lose muscle mass with the fat loss.
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05-26-2011, 10:48 AM #33
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Excess calories in make you fat, for the most part.
As far as carbs go, that depends on one's metabolism, from my understanding. If you have a slow metabolism and eat a load of simple carbs, your body won't use these carbs as fast as they need to be used, so they're stored. As fat.IamJons Awesome workout log:
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05-26-2011, 11:39 AM #34
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05-26-2011, 11:52 AM #35
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Please expand on this.
A spike in blood sugar = spike in insulin = increase in enzymes which lead to lipogenesis = lipogenesis
I'm in way over my head and read this on Wiki, so if I'm wrong, please explain.
ETA: I know a few people who had trouble losing weight. They went on a low carb diet and got the job done.IamJons Awesome workout log:
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Author of "The Loser Mentality"
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05-26-2011, 12:02 PM #36
It seems like Lyle's site doesn't work for me right now, so i'll post the link of the thread on his forum where he talks a bout what I said. The link to the article is on this thread.
http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=7003
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05-26-2011, 12:03 PM #37
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05-26-2011, 12:42 PM #38
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05-26-2011, 01:05 PM #39
This is a very interesting topic. Here's another question for you guys:
What makes cake bad for you? Is it:
- the high amount of carbs (that can be converted to fat)
- the high amount of fat (which is already fat)
- or purely just because it's high in calories
- or because of it's impact on hormones, etc. (e.g. it's simple sugar spike insulin, so fat storage goes up)
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05-26-2011, 01:10 PM #40
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05-26-2011, 01:15 PM #41
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05-26-2011, 01:15 PM #42
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IMO:
The high sugar content.
The high calorie content.
In moderation it's fine. In bulk, it's this stuff that causes type 2 diabetes and obesity.
Sugar is actually addictive. The more you eat the more you want. It keeps you coming back for more due to the insulin spikes/blood sugar crashes.IamJons Awesome workout log:
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Author of "The Loser Mentality"
▬ http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=699707851#postcount%20=21
"The Predators Are Feeding (And You're What They're Eating)"
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IamJon's Sermon at the Breakfast Table:
▬ http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=713520011&postcount=12
♂ Eat Like a Man ♂
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05-26-2011, 01:25 PM #43
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05-26-2011, 01:27 PM #44
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See bold
EDITED a couple times, so if someone quotes me hopefully they get the finished product
ETA100: The 'macros' part is worded poorly... calories in vs out is part of your macros, protein/carb/fat intake is the other part. If you over eat, you'll gain fat. If you don't eat enough protein, you won't gain muscle.
ETA a billion: Can't stop editing.. added "micronutrients"Last edited by IamJonsCranium; 05-26-2011 at 01:34 PM.
IamJons Awesome workout log:
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Author of "The Loser Mentality"
▬ http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=699707851#postcount%20=21
"The Predators Are Feeding (And You're What They're Eating)"
▬ http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=710146201&postcount=184
IamJon's Sermon at the Breakfast Table:
▬ http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=713520011&postcount=12
♂ Eat Like a Man ♂
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05-26-2011, 01:29 PM #45
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05-26-2011, 02:00 PM #46
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05-26-2011, 02:06 PM #47
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05-26-2011, 02:08 PM #48
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05-26-2011, 02:09 PM #49
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05-26-2011, 03:04 PM #50
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05-26-2011, 04:12 PM #51
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05-26-2011, 07:04 PM #52
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05-26-2011, 07:25 PM #53
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05-26-2011, 07:41 PM #54
I got my ass chewed up trying to debate this last night.
Did you ever check out Alan's article reviewing Dr lustig's fructose lecture? That is a cal in cal out debate if i ever seen one.
In my opinion there are good arguments from both sides. Very hard to understand which side is best, if you are being 100% objective, because there are studies that disprove both sides of the argument.
Until last night I would have argued against cals in cals out based on how different foods change how well your body metabolizes food and whether it stores fat. There is overwhelming evidence, however, from what I was shown here, that these differences are minimal, when compared to caloric deficit/surplus.
I think everyone here pretty much agrees that cals in cals out is just as important as your macro ratio. The main points I learned was that meal frequency/timing is irrelevent, and that the wrong macro ratio will lead to malnutrition and/or loss of lean mass which can speak for problems blamed on sugar.
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05-26-2011, 07:45 PM #55
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05-26-2011, 07:49 PM #56
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05-26-2011, 08:08 PM #57
I may be mistaken, but I thought one of Lyle's articles stated that carbohydrate consumption was the main factor controlling whether the body chooses to oxidize carbohydrates or fats for energy. That said, shouldn't your macronutrient consumption also take your training goals into account? If I'm training energy systems that are mostly anaerobic, then carbohydrate consumption could be beneficial. If I'm training to keep my body fat low and maybe use triglycerides as a consistent source of energy, then keeping carbs low would be a priority.
I would never say that calories in and out don't determine weight gain or loss, but I think macronutrient consumption could be further tailored to one's specific goals.
Let me know if I've gotten mixed up somewhere.
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05-26-2011, 08:09 PM #58
Even with all the evidence of purely cals in/out, I still feel like what those calories are made of can make a huge difference. If me and my friend both ate the same amount of calories and reached our needed macros for the day, but my diet was whole grains, fruits, veggies, and lean proteins compared to his diets of cheeseburgers and tacos, I would have to think my body composition would be much healthier and more muscle/less fat than his.
And regarding your last point, I still believe timing plays a role too. Having a ton of carbs before bed (8 hours of inactivity) must be different than upon waking.
EDIT:
Here's a great excerpt from Dr. Jim Stoppani, who I highly look up to and has excellent advice and info:
Is a calorie truly a calorie? Not always, because different types of calories can affect your body and your results differently. Dietary fat, for example, is more "fattening" than protein or carbs because it's less likely to be used to build your body. Granted, carbs can potentially make you fat, but they also directly fuel your training. Protein? That's a no-brainer: It builds muscle. Fat does neither, but it isn't useless; moderate amounts of it support vitamin absorption and help manufacture hormones.
But if you're trying to get ripped, you must minimize your consumption of fat. Protein, on the other hand, not only adds to your muscle - key in boosting the metabolism - but actually increases your metabolism more directly. The body burns more calories processing protein than it burns to process carbs or fat, known as the thermic effect of food. That's the main reason diets that include a lot of protein result in greater fat loss than low-protein diets, even when both diets contain the same amount of calories.
Where those calories come from greatly affect body composition.Last edited by jpzsports; 05-26-2011 at 08:46 PM.
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05-26-2011, 08:56 PM #59
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05-26-2011, 08:57 PM #60
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