New routine: Adivice on Deads and Cleans.

[Teach]

I am going to try the routine below. I am alternating deads and cleans every other Wednesday. I am debating on putting them first in the routine on those days. Give me your thoughts.

Week A

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Chin-ups 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Dips 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Dead lift 3x5
Walking lunges 3 sets
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pull-up 3x12
T-Bar rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Stiff leg dead lift 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3x12
T-Bar Rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

[MR]

I am going to try the routine below. I am alternating deads and cleans every other Wednesday. I am debating on putting them first in the routine on those days. Give me your thoughts.

Week A

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Chin-ups 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Dips 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Dead lift 3x5
Walking lunges 3 sets
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pull-up 3x12
T-Bar rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Stiff leg dead lift 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3x12
T-Bar Rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Wow...where'd that routine come from? Heavy squats three times per week?? Heavy bench press three times per week?? Squats, bench press and deadlifts all on the same day??...You're setting yourself up for complete exhaustion and over-training. Try it and see.

Mike

[pig_killer]

Wow...where'd that routine come from? Heavy squats three times per week?? Heavy bench press three times per week?? Squats, bench press and deadlifts all on the same day??...You're setting yourself up for complete exhaustion and over-training. Try it and see.

Mike

Agreed, this looks like a few injuries waiting to happen.

Keep us posted...

[Teach]

Wow...where'd that routine come from? Heavy squats three times per week?? Heavy bench press three times per week?? Squats, bench press and deadlifts all on the same day??...You're setting yourself up for complete exhaustion and over-training. Try it and see.

Mike

This is based on Rippetoes SS program. Notice he has squats, bench, and deads on the same day. Heavy bench will be twice a week at the most since I am alternating them with the press.


Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans


I have added a few assistance exercises. I have done his program and have been lifting for years. I done similar routines where I have added to his program with no problem.

To each his own.

[Sackett]

I would do away with the front squats and do the deads and cleans first. That is just my opinion.

[JH88]

This is based on Rippetoes SS program. Notice he has squats, bench, and deads on the same day. Heavy bench will be twice a week at the most since I am alternating them with the press.


Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans


I have added a few assistance exercises. I have done his program and have been lifting for years. I done similar routines where I have added to his program with no problem.

To each his own.

Why do you want to f**k with his program. Leave it be.

[Teach]

Why do you want to f**k with his program. Leave it be.

Listen junior,

Like I said I have done his program and it did what I wanted it to do and what Rip intended on it to do. I learned correct form and I got stronger. I like Rippetoe and respect his program. He is a hell of a strength coach. However, he is not the authority of what I can and can not handle in the weight room. Only I know that. Besides I did not ask if you thought my routine would hurt. I asked opinions on where to put deads and cleans.

I got the bases for the routine from this site http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=106677331 and added two lifts that I enjoy doing to each day.

Practical Programming Advanced Novice Program:

Week A

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets, weight added so failure occurs at 5 to 7 reps

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5 (more sets may be added due to reduced frequency)

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets to failure, unweighted

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3 sets to failure, unweighted

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Power clean 5x3

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3 sets, weight added so failure occurs at 5 to 7 reps

[Bob45]

Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans

Yeah, if you are going all out on these you shouldn't want to add more. It's defeating the purpose of low volume, then rest, recover and do it again.

[boathead]

if you are intent on doing all that on the same day, i don't think it matters much. why not alternate the order? that way in any given week your front squat or dead/clean is getting the priority, and, presumably, more weight.

if you are anything like me, if i do 2 major exercises in the same workout, the second invariably must be at a reduced weight, especially when there is some overlap between the two. and front squats, deads, and power cleans do have some overlap.

edit: and btw, i am all for f'ing with rippetoes programs. but not so with madcow.

[Crusier]

I would do away with the front squats and do the deads and cleans first. That is just my opinion.

I agree. Set it up like this.

Week A

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Chin-ups 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Dips 3x8-10

Day 2
Dead lift 3x5
Press 3x5
Walking lunges 3 sets
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pull-up 3x12
T-Bar rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 2
Power clean 5x3
Bench press 3x5
Stiff leg dead lift 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3x12
T-Bar Rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

[BrotherWolf]

This is based on Rippetoes SS program. Notice he has squats, bench, and deads on the same day. Heavy bench will be twice a week at the most since I am alternating them with the press.


Workout A
3x5 Squat
3x5 Bench Press
1x5 Deadlift

Workout B
3x5 Squat
3x5 Press
5x3 Power cleans


I have added a few assistance exercises. I have done his program and have been lifting for years. I done similar routines where I have added to his program with no problem.

To each his own.

Sounds good to me, but why alternate power cleans with deadlifts I'd do them both on different days , if anything I would alternate pendley rows with Power cleans

I'd get rid of T-Bar rows and lunges... you are already squatting and the pendley and power cleans covers it all as far as pulls from the floor.

I'd add weighted crunches once a week.

as far as deadlift before or after, I am doing the texas method so I keep my deads on my
light day (I squat 70-80% of my previous lift) I do 3 sets across of everything else
and DL to failure.. you should do the same if you have a light or recovery day..

PS
keep the front squats I do them on my light day or my volume day after the back squat

[BrotherWolf]

Why do you want to f**k with his program. Leave it be.

That's not ****ing with his program , it's exactly what you supposed to do after starting strength... use your brain and create your own programming, he obviously learned from SS
and possibly reading practical programming, nothing wrong with that

[imenraged]

Deadlifts and front squats on the same day is a hell of alot of lower back pressure.

[BrotherWolf]

Deadlifts and front squats on the same day is a hell of alot of lower back pressure.

How do you think olympic lifter survive? It's weightlifting, it's supposed to be hard

[eomrat]

I always do squats first. Always. That is mostly because I am afraid that the gym will be taken over by terrorists and if I don"t get to finish my routine I want to have at least got in my squats. Having said that, I really see no reason not to alternate. Something like 6 weeks your way and then 6 weeks with the deads first.
Also, I like to DL more. You will only be getting a true DL once every other week. I am only guessing, but I think you are going to lose strength in that lift.
Otherwise, it look like a great transition from SS to something that you should be able to make great gains on for quite a while.

[snoack]

Deadlifts and front squats on the same day is a hell of alot of lower back pressure.

I did them that way for a long time without any issues. If you have good form I don't see a problem.

[Teach]

Sounds good to me, but why alternate power cleans with deadlifts I'd do them both on different days , if anything I would alternate pendley rows with Power cleans

I'd get rid of T-Bar rows and lunges... you are already squatting and the pendley and power cleans covers it all as far as pulls from the floor.

I'd add weighted crunches once a week.

as far as deadlift before or after, I am doing the texas method so I keep my deads on my
light day (I squat 70-80% of my previous lift) I do 3 sets across of everything else
and DL to failure.. you should do the same if you have a light or recovery day..

PS
keep the front squats I do them on my light day or my volume day after the back squat

I see someone resurrected my old post. Thanks for the suggestions. I actually just started this program this week.

I took a couple of weeks off and did some light lifting and after examining what I was planning decided to make some adjustments by putting Deads on Mondays Pendlays on Wednesdays, and Cleans on Fridays. I kept the front squats and I plan on going light with them. I could replace the lunges with good mornings(I do not have access to a glute/ham machine)to make it look like this. I do cardio a couple days a week and do abs then.

What do you think?


Week A

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench Press 3x5
Chin-ups 3x12
Dead lift 1x5
Dips 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Good Mornings 3x8-10
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Pull-up 3x12
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Dead lift 1x5
Chin-ups: 3x12
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Stiff leg dead lift 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Pull-ups: 3x12
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

[BrotherWolf]

Some days are going to be hard to make progress..

Week A

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Good Mornings 3x8-10 <--- right after rows .. yikes
Close-grip bench 3x8-10<------you have a press + this on the same day and you just did DIPS the previous workout, I would take it out
Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5 <------bench again
Power clean 5x3 <--- pull
Pull-up 3x12 <--- another pull back to back
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Dead lift 1x5
Chin-ups: 3x12
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Stiff leg dead lift 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Pull-ups: 3x12
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

It's tricky.. you want to improve but you can't get too tired or you won't make progress
though you are doing mostly 3 sets I think You are trying to squeeze too much stuff in one routine.

Start with the simple compound lifts like in SS and add 1-2 accessories as you go along for a couple of weeks and see if you can make progress, eliminate doubles like close grip bench press, you are doing dips already .... sometimes less is more but if you can handle it add more exercises but only if it doesn't prevent you from making progress

[al.strongman]

Wow...where'd that routine come from? Heavy squats three times per week?? Heavy bench press three times per week?? Squats, bench press and deadlifts all on the same day??...You're setting yourself up for complete exhaustion and over-training. Try it and see.

Mike

I also agree. You won't last long on that routine.

[Teach]

Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. Like I said before I have done Rippetoes program and it did what I wanted it to do and what Rip intended on it to do. I learned correct form and I got stronger. I also like to experiment and try different routines and I do like to ask other experienced lifters their thoughts and opinions. Sometimes I screw up sometimes I have success. Most important I keep enjoying it and have rarely missed a workout in over 20 years.

But being in my 50s at 5'9" and around 175 pounds I squated 315, benched 225, and deadlifted 375 this week. They are not the most impressive numbers but I am happy with them.

[Teach]

Some days are going to be hard to make progress..

Week A

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Good Mornings 3x8-10 <--- right after rows .. yikes
Close-grip bench 3x8-10<------you have a press + this on the same day and you just did DIPS the previous workout, I would take it out
Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5 <------bench again
Power clean 5x3 <--- pull
Pull-up 3x12 <--- another pull back to back
Barbell Curl 3x8-10


It's tricky.. you want to improve but you can't get too tired or you won't make progress
though you are doing mostly 3 sets I think You are trying to squeeze too much stuff in one routine.

Start with the simple compound lifts like in SS and add 1-2 accessories as you go along for a couple of weeks and see if you can make progress, eliminate doubles like close grip bench press, you are doing dips already .... sometimes less is more but if you can handle it add more exercises but only if it doesn't prevent you from making progress

Thanks for pointing those out to me. I had done the lunges and was only thinking about replacing them with good mornings. I did not even think about the close grips.

Thanks again

[Marius_Ursus]

I am going to try the routine below. I am alternating deads and cleans every other Wednesday. I am debating on putting them first in the routine on those days. Give me your thoughts.

Week A

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Chin-ups 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Dips 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Press 3x5
Dead lift 3x5
Walking lunges 3 sets
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Pull-up 3x12
T-Bar rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Week B

Day 1
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Chin-ups: 3x12
Pendlay Rows 3x6-8
Close-grip bench 3x8-10

Day 2
Front squats 3x5
Bench press 3x5
Power clean 5x3
Stiff leg dead lift 3x8-10
Dips 3x8-10

Day 3
Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Pull-ups: 3x12
T-Bar Rows 3x8-10
Barbell Curl 3x8-10

Are you going for a strength and conditioning program? If your approach is intelligent, this is a doable program depending on how you load your deads and power cleans on the same day. Since you recruit the same chains for power cleans that you do for a stiff-leg deadlift, I wouldn't go all out on both exercises on the same day.

I see the difference in sets and reps, but what about the load?

[Marius_Ursus]

Literally thousands and thousands of people have lasted quite a while on exactly such a program. How is this possible when I read so many posts from so many people that say the program wont work. After all Mark Rippetoe is just some asshat that has been training elite athletes for over 30 years and that clown Kilgore is only a PH.D in Anatomy and Physiology and professor of Kinesiology at MSU. Just because nearly EVERY major figure in the strength training community endorses their program doesn't make these guys some kinda EXPERTS. The tens of thousand of people who have gotten stronger and bigger using this program don't prove anything either.

After all, some guy on the internet disagrees with them.

x2

I cycle a program similar to this (less the bench pressing) about three times per year.

[Teach]

Are you going for a strength and conditioning program? If your approach is intelligent, this is a doable program depending on how you load your deads and power cleans on the same day. Since you recruit the same chains for power cleans that you do for a stiff-leg deadlift, I wouldn't go all out on both exercises on the same day.

I see the difference in sets and reps, but what about the load?

I will be increase the loads on squats, bench, deads, press, and cleans by 2 pounds each week. I try to keep it simple the front squats on Wednesday will be about 50-75% of my squats. The rest of the lifts will be light enough for me to do proper form but just enough to be challenging. I will not be going all out on them. I hope this makes sense.

If you have a suggestion I am open to it. I am just not open to the words "its always been done this way" or it "can't be done".

[boathead]

i too am sort of baffled that some view the op's routine as being outlandish....it is basic bread and butter strength building in the vein of bill starr 5x5 and rippetoe's various programs. some pundits suggest that one could conceivably spend YEARS making progress on routines of this type.

i suspect that those who express shock have never tried it. personally, i am almost 7 years into this, and have done my fair share of trialing and erring....but madcow 5x5 gave me by far the best gains yet..in strength and size. am entering week 2 of my second time around.

[Dave76]

If you have a suggestion I am open to it. I am just not open to the words...

My only comment is that it looks a lot like Rip's novice program with more exercises thrown in. Did you consider one of the intermediate templates?

[Marius_Ursus]

I will be increase the loads on squats, bench, deads, press, and cleans by 2 pounds each week. I try to keep it simple the front squats on Wednesday will be about 50-75% of my squats. The rest of the lifts will be light enough for me to do proper form but just enough to be challenging. I will not be going all out on them. I hope this makes sense.

If you have a suggestion I am open to it. I am just not open to the words "its always been done this way" or it "can't be done".

Just going by the way my own body responds to training, if I were doing power cleans and stiff-leg deadlifts on the same day, I'd go lighter on either the cleans or the deadlifts depending on what else I was doing as well. Like if I were doing pull-ups, too, I'd go lighter on the cleans. If I were doing squats, I'd go maybe five pounds lighter on the deadlifts.

I try not to tax the same muscle chains to the same intensity on the same day...but that's just me.

[Teach]

My only comment is that it looks a lot like Rip's novice program with more exercises thrown in. Did you consider one of the intermediate templates?

It is based on his novice program. I've done some of his templates before and they all worked well for me. I like his program and still base my workouts around the major lifts he teaches. Like I said I am just experimenting and seeking advice.