Meat-eaters...

[onii]

this thread lol, as soon as someone chimes in with a belief that doesn't follow traditional dogma, all of a sudden they are labeled as misguided and mentally ill even though they are able to look at things from a different perspective. How dare someone bring up a belief i dont agree with, how dare someone try to bring up an intellectual argument in hopes of just spreading something they have found rewarding in their own lives. Lemme label them with some generalization that will fit into their demographic and let my past beliefs still be reinforced. Has nothing to do with a delusion of grandeur but mainly keeping an open mind.
All I know is that I know nothing and the rewards are in the willingness to learn something new, regardless of the side.

[SeymourGains]

Sht is getting real

Got 2 linda mccartney mozzarella burgers in the oven as we speak

[cmackie4]

I feel people should be able to treat women and blacks however they want and other people can quit bitching about the rapes and slavery of others. Oh wait - this is human people, so that's different... right?

Skipped to the end of the thread once I read this; surely you can't be serious, fkn ridiculous.

Might have been said before but if you're vegan for moral issues then good for you, go for it, you can eat the chit straight out your ass for all I care. It's when you try to force it on others and give yourself this false sense of superiority that I really get rustled.

IMO it's not that eating the animals is wrong (being omnivores and all), it's the inhumane processes in which the animals are processed which are wrong. Go complain about that instead of the people who are just eating the fkn product. If you think the whole worlds going to go vegan, billion dollar industries are going to be crippled by the 'power of the people' and cease all inhumane practices to adopt a plant based diet you're fkn deluded srs.

We'll be eating mass lab grown chit soon anyway.

[SeymourGains]

Sht is getting real

Got 2 linda mccartney mozzarella burgers in the oven as we speak

They were pretty damn good, tasted similar to very juicy ground beef burgers

Get some white bread, ketchup and salad and it would make a sickening sammich

[tekkenbruh]

My parents have a few friends who are vegetarian/vegan and aren't giving their children any meat/dairy. Every single one of them is weak, frail and sickly with more health issues at 3 than I ever had at 28.

Until I can go to my local store, buy non-meat products that give me all the nutrients that I require, don't have the taste which makes me want to kill myself and at a reasonable price in order to make myself a juicy burger - it's meat city and no argument exists that could make me reconsider.

[JimmyRustle1]

Already slammed you reasons we're more herbivore than omni lmfao.. humans develop atherosclerosis and only HERBIVORES develop atherosclerosis, not omnivores or carnivores. Unbelievable.

"slammed you" you quoted what someone else has said as to what they believe to be true. You are incredibly dense. Here is a article discrediting that guy you've been on his nuts the whole time.
https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

[Thar90]

So I've been reading through this topic, but let me give you the perspective of someone who used to be a vegetarian for 5 years (and vegan for 3 years). Down below I will cover social, convenience and nutritional aspects of the debate:

Social
One thing that is completely neglected are the social aspects of vegetarianism. I believe it is estimated that 5% of people are vegetarians (which is probably an over estimation as there are also a lot of faketarians around), and in the bodybuilding world this is probably even lower. What this means is that every time you eat together with your meat eating friends at home or at a restaurant, it will suck ass. Also, most people don't know **** about nutrition, so when they cook you a vegetarian meal it will probably be the same dish but then just without the meat. Needless to say that that isn't a super nutritious meal. Long story short, every time you eat together with meat eaters (which will probably be everywhere, unless you only hang out with other veggies) it will just be a pain in the ass.

Convenience
Being a vegetarian is hard enough as it is, let alone being a vegan. You do not eat any animal flesh whatsoever, but also not most of the cheeses (because it may contain calf stomach enzyme) either. Strictly speaking, even milk contains some bodily cells of the cow so technically you are still eating some meat if you drink milk. Veganism is even worse because there's so many products out there that contain milk or egg, harshly limiting the food that you can eat.

Unlike what veggies say, there is less protein in plant foods. Not to mention that plant foods that are rich in protein are typically also rich in carbs, fat and anti-nutrients so in other words, you have to eat more calories to have the same amount of protein intake compared to a meat eater. If that wasn't bad enough, the protein quality is also lower, so even if you combine different kinds of foods together to complement each other, it still lacks some key amino acids. All this together means that you will be stuck with the same monotonous meals over and over again, which are typically also more expensive (and I'm not even talking about the "meat-replacing" products).

Lastly, meat just tastes good and I don't think many people will be motivated to eat something else that is less tasty and satisfying.

Nutrition
-I already addressed the protein thing above.

-Plant foods lack vitamin A (carotenoids in plant foods are only converted to Vit A in small amounts), several B vitamins such as B12, vitamin D and vitamin K2 (unless you like eating fermented soy products like natto). They also contain less (bioavailable!) zinc and other minerals such as calcium. Even supplementation does not always help to fight the vitamin deficiencies commonly found in vegans.

-Plant foods also lack creatine and also carnosine, a peptide that may possess powerful anti oxidant capacities. This may also explain why veggies have higher amounts of AGEs (advanced glycation end products).
-Plant foods contain no long-chain n-3 fatty acids.

-The reason why (red) meat supposedly causes cancer is because people who eat more red meat tend to have unhealthier lifestyles. They drink more alcohol, smoke more cigarettes and exercise less etc. Even after adjusting for these confounders, you still cannot get rid of all the confounding factors that are omnipresent in observational studies. You are still effectively comparing apples with pears. Not to mention that misreporting is the norm with these self reported questionnaires (have you guys ever filled in such a questionnaire?). Even after all this, the risk with red meat consumption is still pretty weak in most of these observational studies.

-To the contrary, vegetarians tend to live healthier lifestyles (unrelated to diet). Despite this, some studies still find no benefit (look up Epic Oxford study I, the mortality and colon cancer risk were slightly higher in vegetarians).

I can go on and on but I think the message is pretty clear now. I think someone else already addressed the psychological issues, but due to the extremist nature of veganism, it tends to attract some crazy ass people. A good example of this is Freelee the Banana Girl, a well know vegan on YT. According to her, vegans are superior and only they are allowed to procreate. So every guy in the world had to blow his load in a jar kept frozen, and after that get vasectomized. Also, only rich people were allowed to procreate. Sounds like a pretty good idea Am I rite?

p.s I cannot post links to articles as I have less than 50 posts so sorry about that

[Clydesdale1991]

Just saying....as soon as everyone stops eating meat(or animal products like eggs/milk), there's no reason for the farmers to keep the massive amount of cows/pigs/chickens/etc alive.

Assuming the non-meat eating future comes to pass, Cows/Chickens/Pigs/Etc will be things we read about in text books in History Class.

[Hooverville]

Aggressive brah, you make a good argument.

I'll give you that. But that is all I will give you. Veganism is one of they most privileged ways of living. You must be very well off to afford all the special supplements that it takes to support your ample physique. (No homo) I know most 20-30 year old non-professionals couldn't do it.

I think you should have a kid with a vegan woman and raise it vegan and see how that treats you. I have a good friend who is doing that now and the child is struggling to meet even the most meager growth expectations and the mother had to have nearly all the breast milk they fed the boy donated from other mothers. This is routine, I was informed by them both.

Another light, my son has a dairy protien intolerance. So it has been strictly Breast milk and other non dairy beverages that have kept him going.

But.


The gastrointestinal Doctor we see for his issue, has said and I quote "I am a Vegan by choice, but I recommend children have animal protien in their diet up to an age of self awareness, where they can make their own decisions. I feed my children an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet for this reason"

This is board certified physician.

You live your life but, don't tell the rest of how wrong we are to live our the way we see fit.

[Jason265]

If you are a vegan, you are responsible for more deaths of sentient beings than an omnivore who feeds on free-range cattle. If you really cared about killing the least amount of animals with your diet, you would incorporate this into your diet. If you are selfish and merely do not want to dirty your own hands, keep doing what you're doing.

"The challenge for the ethical eater is to choose the diet that causes the least deaths and environmental damage. There would appear to be far more ethical support for an omnivorous diet that includes rangeland-grown red meat" - The following article

http://www.iflscience.com/plants-and...od-your-hands/

[Succeeded]

"slammed you" you quoted what someone else has said as to what they believe to be true. You are incredibly dense. Here is a article discrediting that guy you've been on his nuts the whole time.
https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

> http://www.ecologos.org/mcardle.htm <

A lovely article discrediting that joke of an article you tried throwing at me fkn lmao


try again, your braincells are having a hard time due to excessive meat eating

You are incredibly dense

coming from you??

[JimmyRustle1]

http://www.ecologos.org/mcardle.htm


LOL try again

We could literally go back and forth all day long posting conflicting articles that same the exact opposite. What is most humorous is that you stand by your articles as if there is no possible way on this Earth that they are wrong. Then hand out "L's" on a forum and talk about how knowledgeable you are. The joke is truly on you here. I conceited that large amounts of processed meats are bad. My only point in this whole thing besides my original question to OP is this professor that you kept slobbin could be wrong with his points. As scientists have been wrong time and time again throughout history. However you are so dim witted you lack the intellectual ability to debate anything in any sort of constructive manner. You would be a figure head as to why people don't take minority groups seriously. Not groups as in race. But ideologist groups. I don't agree with what you say. So you post your articles triumphantly as if you won something. I held off posting anything conflicting to try and point out it was a conversation. I was giving you credit that you would eventually figure that out. Apparently I gave you entirely too much credit and we have to proceed with baby steps.

[Zackad]

just like people don't think it's fair to impose our culture on other religions and restrict them from wearing certain clothing, eating meat is my way of life and countless others. Honestly, I'm just starting to learn how to cook, and if I couldn't include meat in my meals, I would be at even more of a loss of what to make, or how to be able to stick with making my own food vs going out all the time.

but all this is a nonissue as I still have a meal plan you made for me that includes salmon.

[Succeeded]

We could literally go back and forth all day long posting conflicting articles that same the exact opposite. What is most humorous is that you stand by your articles as if there is no possible way on this Earth that they are wrong. Then hand out "L's" on a forum and talk about how knowledgeable you are. The joke is truly on you here. I conceited that large amounts of processed meats are bad. My only point in this whole thing besides my original question to OP is this professor that you kept slobbin could be wrong with his points. As scientists have been wrong time and time again throughout history. However you are so dim witted you lack the intellectual ability to debate anything in any sort of constructive manner. You would be a figure head as to why people don't take minority groups seriously. Not groups as in race. But ideologist groups. I don't agree with what you say. So you post your articles triumphantly as if you won something. I held off posting anything conflicting to try and point out it was a conversation. I was giving you credit that you would eventually figure that out. Apparently I gave you entirely too much credit and we have to proceed with baby steps.

...tldr


You really think unprocessed organic meat is any different? Humans were never meant to eat meat period. Processed or unprocessed it doesn't matter, thats just your way of lousy coping.

You're just extremely ignorant and brainwashed thinking we need meat. You keep coping by saying

"...uhhhhhh unprocessed meat uhhhhh is uhhhhhh the best uhhhh.." and "..uhhhhh people can be uhhhhhh wrong uhhhhh..."

As scientists have been wrong time and time again throughout history.

Just because anyone can be wrong, doesn't mean everyone is wrong. Don't be an ignorant generalizing bigot.
Does 1+1 = 2? according to your logic, it isn't 2 because everyone has been proven wrong throughout history.


I'd love to keep arguing with you because I'll just keep proving you wrong over and over again and watch your coping skills freak out

[JimmyRustle1]

...tldr


You really think unprocessed organic meat is any different? Humans were never meant to eat meat period. Processed or unprocessed it doesn't matter, thats just your way of lousy coping.

You're just extremely ignorant and brainwashed thinking we need meat. You keep coping by saying

"...uhhhhhh unprocessed meat uhhhhh is uhhhhhh the best uhhhh.." and "..uhhhhh people can be uhhhhhh wrong uhhhhh..."




Just because anyone can be wrong, doesn't mean everyone is wrong. Don't be an ignorant generalizing bigot.
Does 1+1 = 2? according to your logic, it isn't 2 because everyone has been proven wrong throughout history.


I'd love to keep arguing with you because I'll just keep proving you wrong over and over again and watch your coping skills evolve

You literally make my points for me. And continue to say things that I never did say. That would be coping. Once again talking about how right you are. Lol you are in fact the figure head.

[ShortDave]

Humans were never meant to drive cars, especially in a seated position. Time to take up long distance walking and get rid of the 'vette.

[Succeeded]

And continue to say things that I never did say. That would be coping.

https://www.vrg.org/nutshell/omni.htm

Large amounts of processed meat is bad

To say we are Herbivores and not Omnivores is a pathetically stupid argument.

Lmfao.

Anyway, all meat is bad. I already proved it to you, take it how you want it. Continue eating meat, I don't care what you do with your life, its all on you.

[JimmyRustle1]

Lmfao.

Anyway, all meat is bad. I already proved it to you, take it how you want it. Continue eating meat, I don't care what you do with your life, its all on you.

a article I posted is not something I said, processed meats are bad, you haven't proved we are herbivores. But instead keep posting online articles. Likewise I could do the same saying opposite. The only thing you have proved is that you are a self righteous bigot.

[Godfrd824]

...tldr


You really think unprocessed organic meat is any different? Humans were never meant to eat meat period. Processed or unprocessed it doesn't matter, thats just your way of lousy coping.

You're just extremely ignorant and brainwashed thinking we need meat. You keep coping by saying

"...uhhhhhh unprocessed meat uhhhhh is uhhhhhh the best uhhhh.." and "..uhhhhh people can be uhhhhhh wrong uhhhhh..."




Just because anyone can be wrong, doesn't mean everyone is wrong. Don't be an ignorant generalizing bigot.
Does 1+1 = 2? according to your logic, it isn't 2 because everyone has been proven wrong throughout history.


I'd love to keep arguing with you because I'll just keep proving you wrong over and over again and watch your coping skills freak out

If humans weren't made to eat meat, how come a human can survive solely from animal products and no supplements, but a vegan eating solely grains and vegetables with no supplements will die?

[Succeeded]

a article I posted is not something I said, processed meats are bad, you haven't proved we are herbivores. But instead keep posting online articles. Likewise I could do the same saying opposite. The only thing you have proved is that you are a self righteous bigot.

But I thought all scientists are wrong so wouldn't the articles you posted against me be.... meaningless? Admit you have a holier than thou special snowflake god complex and think your word matters more than anyone else's on earth. You hate being proven wrong.

If humans weren't made to eat meat, how come a human can survive solely from animal products and no supplements, but a vegan eating solely grains and vegetables with no supplements will die?

http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/vegetari.html

source to your claims?

Also. Atherosclerosis occurs from eating too much meat, read back a page or two

[Godfrd824]

But I thought all scientists are wrong so wouldn't the articles you posted against me be.... meaningless? Admit you have a holier than thou special snowflake god complex and think your word matters more than anyone else's on earth. You hate being proven wrong.




http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/vegetari.html

source to your claims?

Also. Atherosclerosis occurs from eating too much meat, read back a page or two

IDK man, I've been 310lbs, eating 5-6k calories a day, for years at a time, and my cholesterol was very low (LDL). Let's not play semantics, first it was vegan, but now your article is all about vegetarians. I didn't say vegetarians can't live without supplements. I said vegans can't live without supplements.

[wgoodman]

Humans are not herbivores, we are actually frugivores. Physiologically, we are 98 percent identical to chimps and bonobos. Know what chimps and bonobos eat? Fruit. All day. 95 percent of a chimps diet is fruit, with some leaves thrown in and meat on rare occassions.

Humans are also the only species that eats cooked food.

[Succeeded]

IDK man, I've been 310lbs, eating 5-6k calories a day, for years at a time, and my cholesterol was very low (LDL). Let's not play semantics, first it was vegan, but now your article is all about vegetarians. I didn't say vegetarians can't live without supplements. I said vegans can't live without supplements.

What did you eat mainly?

Vegans need b12 from what I know and b12 is a bacteria and isn't naturally contained by animal products, that doesn't mean vegans need meat all of a sudden, they need the bacteria which you can buy as a sup. My main point is meat. Also some people can have lower cholesterol levels than others, no one is the same, doesn't mean eating meat won't do you harm later on. Too many studies back my claims up.

[Titansfan08]

Going to get some dead chicken carcasses and throw them on the grill, oh god damn.

[wgoodman]

Herbivore>Frugivore>human. Go figure.

[brrealtea]

Meat is delicious. I dgaf

These kids agree.

[brrealtea]

Herbivore>Frugivore>human. Go figure.

Chimps are not Frugivores. They are omnivores and they hunt other monkeys.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...ed-out-monkeys

One group has hunted a species of monkey to near extinction.

[Godfrd824]

What did you eat mainly?

Vegans need b12 from what I know and b12 is a bacteria and isn't naturally contained by animal products. My main point is meat. Also some people can have lower cholesterol levels than others, no one is the same, doesn't mean eating meat won't do you harm later on. Too many studies back my claims up.

I can find as many studies to back my claims.

I ate mostly processed carbs and fatty meat. No vegetables and not many fruits. I'll tell you this, the best I've ever felt in my life was eating nothing but animal products, with no carbs other than what's in cheese and the like. If I didn't like sweets so much I'd eat nothing but animal products.

[brrealtea]

Humans are not herbivores, we are actually frugivores. Physiologically, we are 98 percent identical to chimps and bonobos. Know what chimps and bonobos eat? Fruit. All day. 95 percent of a chimps diet is fruit, with some leaves thrown in and meat on rare occassions.

Humans are also the only species that eats cooked food.

Humans cook their food. And all their food (incl. vegetables traditionally), why is this relevant since the discovery of fire is only unique to humans?

No we are not Frugivores. We're omnivores. Stop this potato pseudo-science.

The only valid reason, which I do agree, is that eating meat can be Morally Wrong.

But frankly, I am a specie-ist and I dgaf about other species. Pseudo-science about how we're not omnivores is just that - it's pseudo-science and the nature fallacy is completely irrelevant to the discussion of whether we ought to eat meat or not.

[wgoodman]

Chimps are not Frugivores. They are omnivores and they hunt other monkeys.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150...ed-out-monkeys

One group has hunted a species of monkey to near extinction.

I said in my post that chimps do eat meat on occasions, but 95 percent of their diet is fruit. A frugivore is an animal that eats MAINLY fruit.

Everyone ITT watch this please: