Why hardgainers are hardginers

[the iron addict]

First things first. MOST lifters that beleive they are hardgainers just don't have a handle on their diet and training. If all is dialed and results suck--then they just might be an actual hardgainer. Here is some info covering that.

I see posts very frequently by guys that are just completely CLUELESS about the role genetics play in how one responds to training. These posts USUALLY come from one of two types of people. Guys with great genetics that have never had training partners that didn’t, or have never worked with a group of lifters over the long-term, and young guys that REALLY, REALLY want to believe that they can be the next Arnold, Yates, or Coleman.

Here are just SOME of the factors that ultimately determine how big and strong you get, and what paths are appropriate to get you there:

Cortisol output
Adrenaline output
Insulin output
insulin sensitivity
Thyroid output
Thyroid sensitivity
Testosterone production
Testosterone/hormone sensitivity
Testosterone to estrogen conversion
SHGB sensitivity
Testosterone to DHT conversion
Estrogen sensitivity
Growth Hormone output
Growth Hormone sensitivity
IGF output
IGF sensitivity
Digestive capability
Basic protein synthesis ability
Muscle fiber composition
CNS output
CNS recovery rate
Digestive capacity

AND A WHOLE BUNCH MORE

ALL THESE FACTORS ARE ALL DETERMINED BY AN INDIVIUALS GENETICS. AND THEY DON’T VARY A LITTLE, THEY VARY A LOT. AND THERE ARE MANY, MANY MORE!

Take a guy that has very little fast twitch fibers, or just very little muscle fibers compared to the average person, or well above average person and this person is NEVER, NEVER going to have anywhere NEAR the growth potential of someone that has more fiber to begin with no matter HOW BIG they hypertrophy them.

Oh, just add steroids and the below average guy is even. WRONG again. In the Soviet Union where the state spent much time researching these issues, they determined that hormone (steroid) sensitivity varied as much as 2 to 4 times. Which means the response and thus results one guy might get from a gram of gear would take 4 grams for another person to achieve. And these were highly technical studies carried out with good controls. Not what a bunch of gym meatheads observed. YES, THAT IS genetics in action.

To say genetics only accounts for a small degree of the achieved results is just PLAIN FLAT OUT WRONG AND ANY GOOD STRENGTH COACH OR SPORTS PHYSIOLIGIST WILL TELL YOU THAT.

This does NOT mean you cannot make great progress or build a great body, but it does mean that most just simply don’t have the potential to be top bodybuilders. And EVERYONE responds differently. I am not trying to rain on anyone’s parade, and potential can only be known in retrospect AFTER you have tried. But all these posts by guys saying genetics are not important and guys just use them as an excuse is pure BS

OK, so maybe you haven’t been dealt the best hand. Well, you got what you got. Now you have to make the best of it, and guess what? Many hardgainers do a LOT of things that are CONTRARY to their goals.

I am going to deal with ectos’ this time and leave the endo’s for another article. We have two archetypical types on ectos. Skinny ectos, ectos and skinny-fat ectos. These guys are all over the place and are very often the types that are drawn to bodybuilding because they are dissatisfied with their skinny physiques. Then once entering the bodybuilding world they are quickly left out in the cold and alone as far as applicable information goes as the mainstream publications focuses on genetic elite lifters doing lots of steroids. Hardly the proper role model for a hardgainer with genetic disadvantages.

I look at quite a bit of lab results from hardgaining lifters and in a good amount of the cases thyroid levels are high, test levels are low, and cortisol is high and in skinny-fat hardgainers estrogen levels are high, and glucose tolerance is in the toilet along with high cortisol levels topping things off. Sleep and stress are usually bad for both types. Pretty simple—you can’t get there from here. At least not at a pace that makes anyone even marginally happy.

From a physical standpoint work capacity levels are most often dismally low and CNS is very delicate. And most hardgainers make matters worse by doing either way too much tonnage or way too much intensity—bad mojo!

So what is the answer to this dilemma? Well it would take a book to cover all bases but in the most simplistic terms here is what has to happen.

Skinny Hardgainer
Training load suited to recovery. Usually low volume and frequency without training to failure.
Work capacity MUST BE BROUGHT UP—THIS IS CRITICAL!!
All stimulants cut out!
Stress reduction techniques used.
Sleep habits improved
Supplementation suited to needs
Eating brought up to a level that exceeds maintenance with at LEAST 1.5 grams protein per lb of bodyweight. THIS SOLVES MANY, MANY hardginers primary issue immediately. If thyroid is too high, diet must be higher!

Skinny-Fat Hardgainer
Training load suited to recovery. Usually low volume and frequency without training to failure.
Work capacity MUST BE BROUGHT UP—THIS IS CRITICAL!!
All stimulants cut out!
Stress reduction techniques used.
Sleep habits improved
Eating brought up to a level that at least meets maintenance with at LEAST 1.5 grams protein per lb of bodyweight
Supplementation suited to needs
GLUCOSE TOLERANCE/INSULIN SENSITIVITY BROUGHT UP!

One of the biggest mistakes hardgainers make is first understanding they are hardgainers, tailoring the workload to their limited recovery, and then NEVER attempting to raise their work capacity. While that approach works in the short term, it s poison over the long term. That type of loading is needed in the beginning, and may be needed for a long time, but if it is never raised you will find yourself stuck soon and again be blaming your genetics on something you had control over.

Another HUGE mistake hardgainers make is too high of intensity level training. MOST HG’s have pretty frail CNS recovery. QUIT BEATING A DEAD HORSE.

These steps will go a long way towards making one an “average gainer” if you will take the time to implement them.

Iron Addict

[SpeedUp2]

Great read as always IA. I should refer everyone that claims genetics are a tiny part of the equation to this article.

In relation to the article, I wanted to ask you a more specific question. Do you think that the same principles apply for lagging groups (trainingwise)? I'll use chest as an example - should you start with lower volume and/or intensity than you normally do back for example, and then gradually increase your workout capacity? Or it is just the metabolic factors that determine the whole thing - your chest will grow only if your whole body grows?

[Tomos]

Great article IA

Always enjoy reading what you write and also the fact that it is coming from you and not copied and pasted. Looking forward to the next installment.

Gave out to much rep today so I will do it later.

[the iron addict]

Until you have BIG lifts I wouldn't worry about lagging bodyparts. Most everyone sees some or many bodyparts as lagging and starts specializing on them. Pretty soon you look at their routines and they look like they came out of "Flex". While the guys that just work on driving the big lifts up generally iron out the lagging parts. When you are benching 315 your chest probably won't be lagging.

IA

Great read as always IA. I should refer everyone that claims genetics are a tiny part of the equation to this article.

In relation to the article, I wanted to ask you a more specific question. Do you think that the same principles apply for lagging groups (trainingwise)? I'll use chest as an example - should you start with lower volume and/or intensity than you normally do back for example, and then gradually increase your workout capacity? Or it is just the metabolic factors that determine the whole thing - your chest will grow only if your whole body grows?

[mjw8204]

I especially appreciated the fact that you said this:

First things first. MOST lifters that beleive they are hardgainers just don't have a handle on their diet and training.

Someone who visits this forum often and didn't know better would think that 90% of the members here are hardgainers. People seem more than willing to fall back on the "ectomorph" or hardgainer label to excuse their lack of progress when their diet sucks and they aren't making wise use of their time in the gym. I refuse to believe that are that many people out there that are truly ectos or hardgainers. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the "body type" classifications, anyway.

[John Prophet]

at my gym it is alllllllll about hardocre/going to failure/forced reps/drop sets.....basically I think the average gym rat believes that drama builds muscle

there is a guy in the gym right now.....dude does MASSIVE workouts...long, high volume, failure and beyond on everything, lol.....somehow he gains...natural too

but he tends to crush his training partners, lol


the other day his partner was doing lying triceps extensions while he spotted...naturally the 4th or 5th rep was failure then they proceeded on to forced reps for 4 or 5 more reps (hafta get 10 you know!! its a rule!)

so after the set the guy doing the extensions said "so that was to failure right?"....the other guy was like "yep. thats what its all about right??"


I am friends with the guy and he is a good guy....but people in the gym try to copy him and it just doesnt work....he doesnt know any better so thats how he advises people who ask him for help etc.

the client I have now used to get advice from this guy....he had him doing drop sets, 4 exercises for bi and tri etc etc

now I have the guy doing like 5 sets for chest, 4 for delts, 3 for arms, lol...the guy is gaining like crazy

he didnt seem to be getting anywhere on the 4 exercises for bicep type routines, lol


but, people just wont get it

[Black_Spit]

Good article IA.

I'd be interested in any thoughts you had on us average-to-easy gaining endomorphs... Have you written anything on that subject?

[the iron addict]

Good article IA.

I'd be interested in any thoughts you had on us average-to-easy gaining endomorphs... Have you written anything on that subject?

Yes, I have but not posted. I have TONS of stuff that is going to eventually be put into a book.

IA

[Black_Spit]

Yes, I have but not posted.
IA

Well, post that **** up

[best regards]

Until you have BIG lifts I wouldn't worry about lagging bodyparts. Most everyone sees some or many bodyparts as lagging and starts specializing on them. Pretty soon you look at their routines and they look like they came out of "Flex". While the guys that just work on driving the big lifts up generally iron out the lagging parts. When you are benching 315 your chest probably won't be lagging.

IA

DING DING DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER.

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to tell people.

Anyways, IA, you said cut out all stimulants. You mean like caffeine? I usually take a capsulte preworkout. And I would consider myself a hardgainer looking at my family history, the fact that I started out at 105, etc.

Also, a program like Starting Strength. Would you consider that high or low workload?

[the iron addict]

Stimulants are bad mojo for ecto's. Do you think only your CNS is stimulated? Nope, your gut/intestinal tract is, your heart/lungs are, your....well your whole body is. Ecto's are already in too much of an excitory mode and slowing the clock is what is needed here, not speeding it up.

Iron Addict

[best regards]

Stimulants are bad mojo for ecto's. Do you think only your CNS is stimulated? Nope, your gut/intestinal tract is, your heart/lungs are, your....well your whole body is. Ecto's are already in too much of an excitory mode and slowing the clock is what is needed here, not speeding it up.

Iron Addict

Hmm alright I may cut out the caffeine.

But in the article I don't really get what you mean by high volume/low volume. Well I do, but I'm not really getting a picture.

Mark Rippetoe puts all his clients on the Starting Strength program. Would you do this for a beginning "hard gainer"?

[mjw8204]

Mark Rippetoe puts all his clients on the Starting Strength program.

I doubt he puts ALL of them on it.

[best regards]

I doubt he puts ALL of them on it.

My bad I meant his beginner clients.

I assume AI is referring to beginners in this article.

[the iron addict]

My bad I meant his beginner clients.

I assume AI is referring to beginners in this article.

Not at all. Hardgainers are found at all levels. I very frequently get a new client that has literally been lifting 5-10 years and STILL benches 185 x 5 and squats 2 and change. THAT is hardgaining even if you are ****ing up most of what you do.

Iron Addict

[best regards]

Not at all. Hardgainers are found at all levels. I very frequently get a new client that has literally been lifting 5-10 years and STILL benches 185 x 5 and squats 2 and change. THAT is hardgaining even if you are ****ing up most of what you do.

Iron Addict

Alright well regardless, could you explain what you mean by high and low volume. Would Starting Strength be a sound program for a beginner who is a hardgainer?

[the iron addict]

Alright well regardless, could you explain what you mean by high and low volume. Would Starting Strength be a sound program for a beginner who is a hardgainer?

How high is up? How low is low? I don't think there is a definative answer that will satisfy everyone.

IMO low is 1-5 sets a bodypart
Mid is 6-9
High is 10-20

A REAL hardgainer should use something with less frequency than starting strength. But do NOT ASSUME YOU ARE A HARDGAINER UNTIL YOU HAVE TRIED A SOLID BASIC PROGRAM WITH DIET IN TOTAL, TOTAL, TOTAL ORDER (did you get the importance of diet) AND FAILED.

Starting strength is a good place for beginners to start. Assume it will work fine. If it doesn't first look at diet, if diet was good, you have limited recover and need to look at other options.

Iron Addict

[Looking Swole]

and what about those who dont fit in the "most lifters that beleive they are hardgainers just don't have a handle on their diet and training" category

got any advice for them

[jrsoxfan18]

good article but could you post more information of low volume training routines? such as what exercise/sets/reps and stuff to do for each bodypart?

[the iron addict]

good article but could you post more information of low volume training routines? such as what exercise/sets/reps and stuff to do for each bodypart?

try www.ironaddicts.com

[Looking Swole]

try www.ironaddicts.com

thats just another forum
since you are on this forum why not just post some routines here

[Tad_T]

It is his forum and there is lots of good information there.

Nice article, IA.

[Black_Spit]

thats just another forum
since you are on this forum why not just post some routines here

You want him to lift the weight for ya, too?

[TRDE59]

Okay, for those who are hardgainers, you mentioned raising work capacity. How is that done, exactly? Many refer to GPP work. Is this the only effective way?

[the iron addict]

Not the only, but probably the best, especially for the hardgainer. Using more sets/reps/frequency is MUCH harder on CNS and increases protein turnover needs, while GPP doesn't beat up CNS and produces no DOMS done correctly.

Iron Addict

[Fallen_]

thats just another forum
since you are on this forum why not just post some routines here

LOL, that is his forum. It actually has great articles and posts that really helped me training and nutrition wise, really good reads.

[back2it]

I only have this to add as you covered just about everything . I considered myself to be a hardgainer many years ago until one year I bought a book on nutrition and another on training . Once I uderstood what they were saying , in one year I gained more than I had in the previous 6+ years of doing what I thought was bodybuilding. It was about 15 lbs , it wasn't genetics like I thought but a simple lack of understanding of what I was doing during the previous 6 years.

[John Prophet]

Alright well regardless, could you explain what you mean by high and low volume. Would Starting Strength be a sound program for a beginner who is a hardgainer?

http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3383


http://www.ironaddicts.com/forums/sh...ght=hardgainer

[BuffGuy123]

HArdgainers are usualy people who have no idea how to train... They do advanced workouts, get the results in 6 to a year, become decent big.. Then they are stuck they do not grow at all. SO they use steriods... HArdgainers.. EAT like pigs! Meaning eat clean protien take amino acid arginine muti vitaming protien shakes... ANd research experiemnt with your body to understand what works and what doesnt... It will take time...

[SpeedUp2]

Until you have BIG lifts I wouldn't worry about lagging bodyparts. Most everyone sees some or many bodyparts as lagging and starts specializing on them. Pretty soon you look at their routines and they look like they came out of "Flex". While the guys that just work on driving the big lifts up generally iron out the lagging parts. When you are benching 315 your chest probably won't be lagging.

IA

Well, I have no doubt that when you bench 315 and squat&deadlift 400+ you wouldn't have lagging chest/legs/posterior chain and so on. Neither do I believe you need to make your programs look like the crappy 5-inches-to-your-arms-in-one-month routines from "Flex". Still, many people have lagging bodyparts because they do the same with them as they do with other muscles. So I was thinking the answer was in the same lines as if it was a 'hardgainer bodypart' lol. Because when you see yourself squatting&deadlifting 400+ for reps, while you are struggling doing 220 bench for months doing relatively equal training for them, or doing 315 bench and 220 pendlay rows and your arms look scary weak, you know that you are not doing something correctly. Doing X's upper body workout wouldn't result in the same chest/back or arms when Y does it. And the progression of your squat may not be as good as the one of your upper back for example, given your nutrition/sleep/recovery is OK. So do these principles apply for such bodyparts?