going from 200gr protein to 300gr to 400gr: anyone tried?

**38joe** · 09-07-2006, 09:51 AM

did you see improvement in mass, strength ?

assuming you're not on juice. so just raisong protein intake over 5-7 meals
be it meat chicken eggs protein power, amino acids tabs, BCAA.

studies have shown that romanian weighlifters really increase their muscle mass and strenght by raising protein to 2gr per lb.

400gr would be for instance:
10eggs (3yolks)=40gr
3x250gr chichen whites=3x55gr
that's 205gr already
4protein shakes of 40gr=120gr
and 30-40tabs of amino acids-BCAAs

B6vitamin around 100mg/day is needed for this.
and lots of water.

it could also be 20eggs, 1kg of chicken whites and 3shakes, 20-30tabs.

**kimsquit** · 09-07-2006, 10:05 AM

What happened to this opinion?

Originally Posted by 38joe

...to build and maintain muscles, eat. especially protein (dont need 400gr a day unless you're on roids and train like a nut)

**Mr. Someday** · 09-07-2006, 10:15 AM

Ignorance is bliss.

**38joe** · 09-07-2006, 10:24 AM

just asking...

i should have written 1gr/lb is good to maintain muscle mass, i guess.

gains anyway are limited if you dont take anabolic steroids...

**want2grow** · 09-07-2006, 10:39 AM

Just by eating better. I'm now doing some anabolics, but before that when I added a lot of protein I grew like mad.

A female bodybuilder started working where I worked about three years ago and she helped me with my diet. RDA recommends 1 gr/kg, but for bodybuilding you should be at 1.5 gr/lb (of ideal bodyweight) (over twice RDA). I always lifted, but never was really buff. When I upped my protein, I finally started to grow. Cut your simple sugars to 0, minimize your complex carbs and you will diurese and take on a very hard appearance.

It seems like it is hard to get fat when eating lean protein sources. I stuck to ground turkey, tuna, egg whites and lo carb protein powders. minimized carbs.

Lately, I've started eating more red meat and keeping my yolks and am gaining some fat.

**Mr. Someday** · 09-07-2006, 10:40 AM

Again....you're ignorance is showing. Give the steroid comments a rest as you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I personally know a couple of people who have qualified for their Pro card (IBFF) at the Team U who are completely natural and are a couple of the biggest, most conditioned athletes I know. The current two-time teen national heavyweight champ is also a natural athlete and is already competing as a shredded super heavyweight now! What is their secret? Genetics and FOOD. Since most of us don't have their genetics, we may not be able to gain at the rate they do, but trust me, we all can make good use of THE MOST ANABOLIC COMPOUND ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH - FOOD!!!!! 99% of the people I see who's gains are "limited" are limited due to their diet, not the fact they haven't started "juicing". Hell, for that matter, I know quite a few younger people at our Golds who do use (they seem to be pretty vocal about it) and guess what?.....they still look like crap. Why? They don't have the diet part down whatsoever. Food, and most importantly to me would be protein, is the key to continued growth. Period.

**38joe** · 09-07-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Someday

Again....you're ignorance is showing. Give the steroid comments a rest as you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I personally know a couple of people who have qualified for their Pro card (IBFF) at the Team U who are completely natural and are a couple of the biggest, most conditioned athletes I know. The current two-time teen national heavyweight champ is also a natural athlete and is already competing as a shredded super heavyweight now! What is their secret? Genetics and FOOD. Since most of us don't have their genetics, we may not be able to gain at the rate they do, but trust me, we all can make good use of THE MOST ANABOLIC COMPOUND ON THE FACE OF THE EART - FOOD!!!!! 99% of the people I see who's gains are "limited" are limited due to their diet, not the fact they haven't started "juicing". Hell, for that matter, I know quite a few younger people at our Golds who do use (they seem to be pretty vocal about it) and guess what?.....they still look like crap. Why? They don't have the diet part down whatsoever. Food, and most importantly to me would be protein, is the key to continued growth. Period.

hi
i agree, FOOD, and it means a lot, and well absorbed, digested,and especially protein, are PARAMOUNT. today i ate 700gr of chicken whites (still 250gr to go), 6eggs, 2 shakes and about 10bcaas. just trained delts and traps and felt great. tight. amazing how the qty of protein can have an effect. supplements are supplements and should never replace 3-4 meat meals. i'll have red meat tomorrow

i'll try to keep have 250-300 gr per day for the next 2months and report the results.

perhaps great genetics sometimes make me believe a guy is on juice while he's not. so see, i'm ready to keep an open mind on the issue. still the majority take something or a lot, depending on their... genetics.

**38joe** · 09-07-2006, 12:43 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Someday

Again....you're ignorance is showing. Give the steroid comments a rest as you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I personally know a couple of people who have qualified for their Pro card (IBFF) at the Team U who are completely natural and are a couple of the biggest, most conditioned athletes I know. The current two-time teen national heavyweight champ is also a natural athlete and is already competing as a shredded super heavyweight now! What is their secret? Genetics and FOOD. Since most of us don't have their genetics, we may not be able to gain at the rate they do, but trust me, we all can make good use of THE MOST ANABOLIC COMPOUND ON THE FACE OF THE EART - FOOD!!!!! 99% of the people I see who's gains are "limited" are limited due to their diet, not the fact they haven't started "juicing". Hell, for that matter, I know quite a few younger people at our Golds who do use (they seem to be pretty vocal about it) and guess what?.....they still look like crap. Why? They don't have the diet part down whatsoever. Food, and most importantly to me would be protein, is the key to continued growth. Period.

what growth-muscle mass diet would YOU recommend ? i weigh 225lbs 6" but need to lose 10kg (fat) and re-build (bigger) muscles at the same time. i have some years of ins and outs of training since i'm 16. totally irregular.

thanks.

**Mr. Someday** · 09-07-2006, 01:31 PM

Damn...only 6" tall at 225??!!!

That is a tough question considering I don't know the rest of your stats. Want2grow had some good suggestions. Sugary carbs have no place in a bb diet for the most part and plenty of lean, quality meats are important. The less you rely on shakes the better off you will be. Remember, they are only a supplement, not a substitution. Maybe you should try Fitday for a base level of calories based on your stats and then come back and let us know and then I can be a little more specific with my suggestions.

**JonnyQuest** · 09-07-2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by 38joe

did you see improvement in mass, strength ?

assuming you're not on juice. so just raisong protein intake over 5-7 meals
be it meat chicken eggs protein power, amino acids tabs, BCAA.

studies have shown that romanian weighlifters really increase their muscle mass and strenght by raising protein to 2gr per lb.

400gr would be for instance:
10eggs (3yolks)=40gr
3x250gr chichen whites=3x55gr
that's 205gr already
4protein shakes of 40gr=120gr
and 30-40tabs of amino acids-BCAAs

B6vitamin around 100mg/day is needed for this.
and lots of water.

it could also be 20eggs, 1kg of chicken whites and 3shakes, 20-30tabs.

I have actually done this and have not noticed a difference. I take in about 200-250g per day and it is very sufficient. Actually, above this and I felt rather fatigued. Of course, everyone is different.

**Lucky K** · 09-07-2006, 02:18 PM

I'm gonna jump in here and comment: It is damn hard to eat that much! For almost 3 weeks I've been eating clean and aiming for 170-200 grams of protein. Previously I was only getting 130-140 a day (I'm holding steady at 132-133# 5'9"). I eat 6-8 times a day, I just can't eat much at once, I guess because I am eating while still satisfied from my last meal! I haven't gained yet, but feeling leaner & stronger, so my motivation is still high. It's just hard for me to eat that much! Major props to those of you can get in 2x their weight!!

**Most Muscular** · 09-07-2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky K

I'm gonna jump in here and comment: It is damn hard to eat that much! For almost 3 weeks I've been eating clean and aiming for 170-200 grams of protein. Previously I was only getting 130-140 a day (I'm holding steady at 132-133# 5'9"). I eat 6-8 times a day, I just can't eat much at once, I guess because I am eating while still satisfied from my last meal! I haven't gained yet, but feeling leaner & stronger, so my motivation is still high. It's just hard for me to eat that much! Major props to those of you can get in 2x their weight!!

If you're eating 6-8 times a day obviously all of these meals do not contain protein.... if you had just 40 grams of protein with each meal (which is not an unrealistic goal) you would be getting 240 to 320 grams of protein in per day. With that intake you would GROW.... trust me. Like the others have said... the biggest flaw in most people's progress is a proper diet, or lack thereof. EAT big to grow BIG.

nuff said...

**JD1213** · 09-07-2006, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky K

I'm gonna jump in here and comment: It is damn hard to eat that much! ......It's just hard for me to eat that much! Major props to those of you can get in 2x their weight!!

I agree. I find it impossible to shovel so much food down my throat in one day just to get in 2x my BW of protein in grams. And thats the one reason i rely on whey proteins to equal it all out. No given some days I just cant make that qouta but I try.

**Lucky K** · 09-07-2006, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Most Muscular

If you're eating 6-8 times a day obviously all of these meals do not contain protein.... if you had just 40 grams of protein with each meal (which is not an unrealistic goal) you would be getting 240 to 320 grams of protein in per day. With that intake you would GROW.... trust me. Like the others have said... the biggest flaw in most people's progress is a proper diet, or lack thereof. EAT big to grow BIG.

nuff said...

Actually I eat protein every time I eat. I eat 6-8 times, but couldn't consider them all "meals". You are correct if I was getting "just" 40 grams each time I'd be all good. Yesterday was actually really good for me- 210 grams. I was stuffed all day, still to the gills even at bedtime.
Here's what it consisted of:
Big bowl Kashi cereal w/1% milk & blueberries 28 grams protein
1/2 pb sand on whole grain & cup of milk 20
Chicken pizza 24
1/2 pb sand, banana, Zone bar 26
Myoplex light RTD 25
Homeade chicken Burrito w/2%cheese, avocado,
wheat tortilla & fat free refried beans 40
Peanuts 7
Protein shake 40

I don't usually have the pizza or so much protein with dinner. Yesterday was off from the gym so I cooked. Hubby usually grills chicken/salmon = about 24 grams. I think I'm gonna try and add a 3rd protein drink and/or more good fats/calories. I haven't counted calories, but I can count protein grams in my sleep!

**38joe** · 09-07-2006, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Someday

Damn...only 6" tall at 225??!!!

That is a tough question considering I don't know the rest of your stats. Want2grow had some good suggestions. Sugary carbs have no place in a bb diet for the most part and plenty of lean, quality meats are important. The less you rely on shakes the better off you will be. Remember, they are only a supplement, not a substitution. Maybe you should try Fitday for a base level of calories based on your stats and then come back and let us know and then I can be a little more specific with my suggestions.

arf !!!

5'11"

i agree ! shakes are no subtitution.
thanks.

**Mr. Someday** · 09-07-2006, 04:49 PM

For those of you who can't eat everything they need to, here's what I do to get past that....cardio! Who would of thought that cardio will help you eat your way up to a new size. I know I always associated it with cutting, but now I am the wiser.

**Most Muscular** · 09-07-2006, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Lucky K

Actually I eat protein every time I eat. I eat 6-8 times, but couldn't consider them all "meals". You are correct if I was getting "just" 40 grams each time I'd be all good. Yesterday was actually really good for me- 210 grams. I was stuffed all day, still to the gills even at bedtime.
Here's what it consisted of:
Big bowl Kashi cereal w/1% milk & blueberries 28 grams protein
1/2 pb sand on whole grain & cup of milk 20
Chicken pizza 24
1/2 pb sand, banana, Zone bar 26
Myoplex light RTD 25
Homeade chicken Burrito w/2%cheese, avocado,
wheat tortilla & fat free refried beans 40
Peanuts 7
Protein shake 40

I don't usually have the pizza or so much protein with dinner. Yesterday was off from the gym so I cooked. Hubby usually grills chicken/salmon = about 24 grams. I think I'm gonna try and add a 3rd protein drink and/or more good fats/calories. I haven't counted calories, but I can count protein grams in my sleep!

I would suggest that you should consider changing some of your food choices... some of the foods you are having are not "complete" protein sources and if not eaten with a "complete" protein, that is, one that contains all of the essesntial amino acids the protein in these foods will not be converted to protein within your body (unless you combine certain incomplete proteins together to make a complete protein). This is why vegaterians have trouble building quality muscle mass.

nuff said...

**garlichead** · 09-07-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Someday

For those of you who can't eat everything they need to, here's what I do to get past that....cardio! Who would of thought that cardio will help you eat your way up to a new size. I know I always associated it with cutting, but now I am the wiser.

Would you elaborate please?

**someday** · 09-07-2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by Most Muscular

I would suggest that you should consider changing some of your food choices... some of the foods you are having are not "complete" protein sources and if not eaten with a "complete" protein, that is, one that contains all of the essesntial amino acids the protein in these foods will not be converted to protein within your body (unless you combine certain incomplete proteins together to make a complete protein). This is why vegaterians have trouble building quality muscle mass.

nuff said...

very good advice! easier and more beneficial to eat all the food you need to when it's all clean food!

**Mr. Someday** · 09-07-2006, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by garlichead

Would you elaborate please?

Elaborate on cardio? lol

Do it every day but leg day, first thing in the am on an empty stomach if at all possible. It will stoke your metabolism and allow you to stuff more of that good quality food down the hatch that is vital to growth....all while keeping fat gains at bay.

**Lucky K** · 09-07-2006, 10:55 PM

I kinda know that is part of my problem. I have actually almost doubled my real meat intake from what it was about 2 months ago. I'm just not a huge carnivore and when I'm trying to eat and not even hungry, it's a chore. I had been hoping what I was doing was going to be enough to start gaining, obviously I need to up my game.

Now this cardio thing is interesting, thought about it during my leg wo this evening. I cut waaay back on cardio a few months ago (Feb was still doing about 7 hrs a week) to just about 60 min a week in the hypoxic chamber. Last week I didn't do any at all hoping to gain a few ounces(missed doing it though). I think my appetite has decreased in correlation to my decreasing cardio....hmmm....(small wisps of smoke rising into air....)

Thanks everyone!

**empresscat** · 09-08-2006, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by Lucky K

I kinda know that is part of my problem. I have actually almost doubled my real meat intake from what it was about 2 months ago. I'm just not a huge carnivore and when I'm trying to eat and not even hungry, it's a chore. I had been hoping what I was doing was going to be enough to start gaining, obviously I need to up my game.

Now this cardio thing is interesting, thought about it during my leg wo this evening. I cut waaay back on cardio a few months ago (Feb was still doing about 7 hrs a week) to just about 60 min a week in the hypoxic chamber. Last week I didn't do any at all hoping to gain a few ounces(missed doing it though). I think my appetite has decreased in correlation to my decreasing cardio....hmmm....(small wisps of smoke rising into air....)

Thanks everyone!

What about adding more dairy? Fat free yogurt and cottage cheese...

**someday** · 09-08-2006, 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by empresscat

What about adding more dairy? Fat free yogurt and cottage cheese...

if she's trying to find her 6 pack adding dairy is not the best protein choice. fish, chicken, turkey, and eggs are some of the better choices if you're not crazy about lean beef.

**GREENFEATHER** · 09-08-2006, 12:58 PM

If you're not keen on beef, buffalo is one hell of a meat for bodybuilders. Trader Joe's has a 4 pack of pattys that are out of this world !!! 43g p, 115 mg cholsterol and I think the cals were 280 per patty. I'm out of buffalo right now so I have to buy it.

**kimsquit** · 09-08-2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by GREENFEATHER

If you're not keen on beef, buffalo is one hell of a meat for bodybuilders. Trader Joe's has a 4 pack of pattys that are out of this world !!! 43g p, 115 mg cholsterol and I think the cals were 280 per patty. I'm out of buffalo right now so I have to buy it.

bump to this...I haven't eaten beef for over a year. I get a 4kg (just over 8 pound) box of buffalo for $31.99 every week.

**GREENFEATHER** · 09-08-2006, 02:52 PM

The best part of buffalo is there are NO HORMONES USED IN ITS PRODUCTION!!! There are ranches popping up all over the place, if you see buffalo in the field, ask the farmer if he sells to the public. You'd be surprised at what you can do if you ask !!

Back to the original question, no I saw jack **** for gains at 500g of protein. I do my best at 300-400g/day. Good fats, good carbs and goos protein all add up to good gains in the gym, there's still no shortcut, juiced or otherwise that I'm aware of. All of these snake oil salesmen would have you believe there potion is the one that will make that 500g of protein do magic, but it doesn't!!!

**JonnyQuest** · 09-08-2006, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by GREENFEATHER

The best part of buffalo is there are NO HORMONES USED IN ITS PRODUCTION!!! There are ranches popping up all over the place, if you see buffalo in the field, ask the farmer if he sells to the public. You'd be surprised at what you can do if you ask !!

Back to the original question, no I saw jack **** for gains at 500g of protein. I do my best at 300-400g/day. Good fats, good carbs and goos protein all add up to good gains in the gym, there's still no shortcut, juiced or otherwise that I'm aware of. All of these snake oil salesmen would have you believe there potion is the one that will make that 500g of protein do magic, but it doesn't!!!

Buffalo is hard to get where I am but if you have a real slaughterhouse/butcher in your area you can go and get the top round which is the top of the butt of the bull and get is specially processed. It is really lean and tasty. My fav though is the bull tender. Lean and you know, filet mignon (without the bacon).

**JediMindTricks** · 09-08-2006, 03:19 PM

I recently decreased my cals a bit but upped my protein intake to about 300g and I have toned up quite nicely while still gaining weight on the scale.

**38joe** · 09-08-2006, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by GREENFEATHER

The best part of buffalo is there are NO HORMONES USED IN ITS PRODUCTION!!! There are ranches popping up all over the place, if you see buffalo in the field, ask the farmer if he sells to the public. You'd be surprised at what you can do if you ask !!

Back to the original question, no I saw jack **** for gains at 500g of protein. I do my best at 300-400g/day. Good fats, good carbs and goos protein all add up to good gains in the gym, there's still no shortcut, juiced or otherwise that I'm aware of. All of these snake oil salesmen would have you believe there potion is the one that will make that 500g of protein do magic, but it doesn't!!!

you mean protein powder are a scam ? or taking just anabolic without lots of food , protein is worth zero ?

i kinda agree...

**Shylock** · 09-09-2006, 02:05 PM

You mean 10 eggs make only 40grams of protein? thats not much

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