vegetarian debate

[Violence Jackof]

i'm debating with this vegetarian. she claims that meat is a carcinogen. but, all of the research i have done that says meat is linked to cancer states that this is so b/c people who eat a lot of red meat do not take in enough fiber. so anyway, do any of you know of any journals that show evidence that meat is NOT linked to cancer?

[Tim]

No. But I'm pretty sure that meat itsself isn't carcinogenic. However, cooking meat a certain way too long may make it carcinogenic. There is some truth to the fact that flame broiling or barbecuing meat can create carcinogens.

[fatts1]

You probably already know about 'Google Scholar'. If not, that might be a good source of information:

You go to Google and look at the top of the page where it says images etc' - on the right it says more and there's a drop down list which includes 'google scholar'. You should find plenty of info there.

I used this to find out cancer info for my mum when she had it and it was an amazing source of academic and medical research. In fact it probably saved her life.

The only thing I know is that a recent huge study in the UK by Cancer Research, the largest ever done recommends reducing the amount of red meat that we eat as a factor in reducing likelihood of cancer.

Fatts

[kthxbai]

The sky is pink with yellow polka dots. Please find me scientific evidence that this isn't the case.

[tabasco.sauce]

If I could prove that our air is carcinogenic, would ur vegan friend stop breathing?

...vegans are terrorists. bacon-hating douchebag terrorists

[Nefariousx1]

i'm debating with this vegetarian. she claims that meat is a carcinogen. but, all of the research i have done that says meat is linked to cancer states that this is so b/c people who eat a lot of red meat do not take in enough fiber. so anyway, do any of you know of any journals that show evidence that meat is NOT linked to cancer?

just tell her to stfu and fine she is right and you dont care what she thinks. Also throw in "I hope they beat and tortured the cow I eat in my burger, it makes it that much sweeter and tastier"

Seriously though, OP, you can never reason with stupidity. Keep that in mind

[reefpicker]

...vegans are terrorists. bacon-hating douchebag terrorists

Not all of them are like that.

i'm debating with this vegetarian. she claims that meat is a carcinogen. but, all of the research i have done that says meat is linked to cancer states that this is so b/c people who eat a lot of red meat do not take in enough fiber. so anyway, do any of you know of any journals that show evidence that meat is NOT linked to cancer?

The problem with most vegetarians is that they become vegetarians for some reason and then to justify it, they try to look for another reason that seems more "acceptable".

Instead of trying to proof your friend wrong, respect her choice.

Some vegetarians are eating the wrong things, and maybe you want to educate her on this. She should make sure she is eating plenty of iron, vitamin b12, etc. Other than that, I see no reason for you, or anybody else, to make her change her diet habits anymore than you would ask a bodybuilder to stop eating protein or creatine. Ultimately, its a matter of choice.

Anything from vegetables, to meat, can be a carcinogen when cooked or preserved the wrong way or with the wrong chemicals. Thus, I am sure you can find "evidence" from both sides of the aisle.

IMO Meat itself is not bad. Mostly is how we preserve it, cook it, and how we raise the animals, that contribute to it being "bad". For example, most bacon and ham contains nitrites, a substance that is a known carcinogen. Here is a quote from wikipedia's article on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite):

Sodium nitrite is commonly added to bacon, ham, hot dogs, luncheon meats, smoked fish, and corned beef to stabilize the red color and add flavor. The preservative prevents growth of bacteria, but studies have linked eating it to various types of cancer. "This would be at the top of my list of additives to cut from my diet," says Christine Gerbstadt, M.D., M.P.H., R.D., L.D.N., a spokesperson for the American Dietetic Association. "Under certain high-temperature cooking conditions such as grilling, it transforms into a reactive compound that has been shown to promote cancer."

Another concerned with meat (related to HOW we raise the animals) is mad cow's disease, an illness that I do not think we will see a cure for during our lifetime (partly because of its biology and partly because of its rarity, but who knows!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_cow

I hope this brings you to both a better understanding of what your friend meant, and maybe an understanding that it would be wiser to respect her dietary "beliefs" than to convince her otherwise. I can't stress this enough: most vegetarians are cool with having non-vegetarians friends and we usually dislike the question of "why" are we vegetarians... If we don't bring the topic, why should you? Forcing her to explain why will most likely make her defensive and she will not change her mind anyway....

[fitman2009]

Well, the more we learn about cancer, the more we learn that everything causes cancer. I mean, I would ask her if she walks down the street or goes out in the sun. Cancer is, sadly, just a thing.

[Leigh29]

You are right you cannot reason with stupidity! like yourself - I guess in your case you can just plead ignorance is bliss and live in your little bubble you idiot!

just tell her to stfu and fine she is right and you dont care what she thinks. Also throw in "I hope they beat and tortured the cow I eat in my burger, it makes it that much sweeter and tastier"

Seriously though, OP, you can never reason with stupidity. Keep that in mind

[BookMonkey]

I know a lot of vegans. And sadly, the mouthy ones with misinformation give the rest a bad name. Most of the ones I know are normal people that don't push their way of life on others. But the mouthy ones will pretty much parrot anything they hear that supports their own validity. But just as most people who have a specific diet are, people will regurgitate the information they were told (eatings carbs after 6pm, for example).

But to redirect the OP, the carcinogens comes from charring meat. The meat itself is not carcinogenic, it is the charring that can be.

[Leigh29]

If you are referring to myself as being "mouthy" which I hope that you are, I would love for you to go back and read what was posted about the poster hoping the cow as beaten and tortured - you're damn straight I will be mouthy about idiotic comments like that!! I will continue to be mouthy if there are stupid comments like that posted!

I know a lot of vegans. And sadly, the mouthy ones with misinformation give the rest a bad name. Most of the ones I know are normal people that don't push their way of life on others. But the mouthy ones will pretty much parrot anything they hear that supports their own validity. But just as most people who have a specific diet are, people will regurgitate the information they were told (eatings carbs after 6pm, for example).

But to redirect the OP, the carcinogens comes from charring meat. The meat itself is not carcinogenic, it is the charring that can be.

[MakeABanana]

Living is carcinogenic.

[stancel]

Not all of them are like that.



The problem with most vegetarians is that they become vegetarians for some reason and then to justify it, they try to look for another reason that seems more "acceptable".

Instead of trying to proof your friend wrong, respect her choice.

Some vegetarians are eating the wrong things, and maybe you want to educate her on this. She should make sure she is eating plenty of iron, vitamin b12, etc. Other than that, I see no reason for you, or anybody else, to make her change her diet habits anymore than you would ask a bodybuilder to stop eating protein or creatine. Ultimately, its a matter of choice.

Anything from vegetables, to meat, can be a carcinogen when cooked or preserved the wrong way or with the wrong chemicals. Thus, I am sure you can find "evidence" from both sides of the aisle.

IMO Meat itself is not bad. Mostly is how we preserve it, cook it, and how we raise the animals, that contribute to it being "bad". For example, most bacon and ham contains nitrites, a substance that is a known carcinogen. Here is a quote from wikipedia's article on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_nitrite):



Another concerned with meat (related to HOW we raise the animals) is mad cow's disease, an illness that I do not think we will see a cure for during our lifetime (partly because of its biology and partly because of its rarity, but who knows!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_cow

I hope this brings you to both a better understanding of what your friend meant, and maybe an understanding that it would be wiser to respect her dietary "beliefs" than to convince her otherwise. I can't stress this enough: most vegetarians are cool with having non-vegetarians friends and we usually dislike the question of "why" are we vegetarians... If we don't bring the topic, why should you? Forcing her to explain why will most likely make her defensive and she will not change her mind anyway....

you're an "Ovolactate Pescatarian"
that's not a vegetarian...nothing annoys vegetarians more than people eating meat but claiming to be vegetarian. Fish=meat.
I used to be vegan but I eat meat now.

[BookMonkey]

If you are referring to myself as being "mouthy" which I hope that you are, I would love for you to go back and read what was posted about the poster hoping the cow as beaten and tortured - you're damn straight I will be mouthy about idiotic comments like that!! I will continue to be mouthy if there are stupid comments like that posted!

No, no. My comment was sparked by the guy you were commenting about (look at my sig). And I was talking about other vegans that get in other people's faces with no provocation and for no reason. I agree that the Nefariousx1 guy is pretty much a jackass.

[grapemaster]

charring anything is carcinogenic... particularly if you use charcoal...

umm don't burn your meat.

[joelash302]

I know a lot of vegans. And sadly, the mouthy ones with misinformation give the rest a bad name. Most of the ones I know are normal people that don't push their way of life on others. But the mouthy ones will pretty much parrot anything they hear that supports their own validity. But just as most people who have a specific diet are, people will regurgitate the information they were told (eatings carbs after 6pm, for example).

But to redirect the OP, the carcinogens comes from charring meat. The meat itself is not carcinogenic, it is the charring that can be.

So true. My GF has vegan friends and the ones with the least amount of valid facts are the ones that want to start sht at every opportunity. My personal favorite is "meat rots in your intestines." Which makes perfect sense, I mean it's obvious that in a closed system designed to digest food that it would rot while a cooked piece of meat can sit in the open air for a week without issue.

[PR1MO]

So true. My GF has vegan friends and the ones with the least amount of valid facts are the ones that want to start sht at every opportunity. My personal favorite is "meat rots in your intestines." Which makes perfect sense, I mean it's obvious that in a closed system designed to digest food that it would rot while a cooked piece of meat can sit in the open air for a week without issue.

You need to respond them solely with "Scientists have proven that being vegan makes you dumber", that way anything they respond with will only validate your point.

[joelash302]

You need to respond them solely with "Scientists have proven that being vegan makes you dumber", that way anything they respond with will only validate your point.

I made the following points to her -
1. I get fats from meat.
2. Fats help with testosterone
3. Testosterone keeps my sex drive high.
4. She's my girlfriend.

She is free to break any part of that chain. So far, so good.