Powerlifting the sport with the most complainers?

[Mateo_66]

Is powerlifting full of complainers? Everybody bashing on eachother. This lift was done improper, he used 4 ply cheat gear, he had a kevlar bench shirt, they use steroids, he only lifts 3 times his bodyweight, his squat wasnt an inch low enough to be good enough, I squat atg butt touching the floor so my squat is so much more impressive, I bench with no arch or a bench shirt so I am much more impressive and better than you he used a monolift and I didnt, I bet if I put on Rychlak's shirt I could bench 8000 because I train raw all the time. who is the best in the world? Who cares be the best you can be! Powerlifting is not going to stay in the stone age it is going to evolve with everything else. Quit complaining about everything and get out there and train and be the best you can be. Powerlifting is headed for crap as long as you all keep complaining. Next thing you know they will have people put there feet up on the bench in comps to see who really has the strongest upper body.

[dbcb314]

I don't compete but...


I think a lot of people who are doing the complaining are peopel who don't compete. That is why I don't get involved in arguements of raw and equipment stuff.... I have no right to. I don't compete.

[MrSkullCrusher]

Next thing you know they will have people put there feet up on the bench in comps to see who really has the strongest upper body.

Hey Mateo that is a good idea!!ROFL!!
J/K LOL!

[Vadim Beliaev]

Bodybuilding has even more complainers. Just look at the eternal question - mass monsters over aesthetics. The Olympia contest is full of complainers, hell any contest will have someone bitching because he placed lower than he thought he would. At least in PL you have a fixed result, either you score the attempt or you fail.

[theend2]

theres more complainers in BB than PL. At least in PL you either lift the weight or fail.

[PitzaPapa]

the diff between bodybuilder and powerlifting is that people always complain about the complainers in powerlifting.

[Perceptionist]

The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round.

Just like it was 10 years ago, 10 years from now it's going to be the same old story.

[MonroWenis]

It's excessive competition that leads to complaining.

[Bowdirk]

Complaining about Complaining...

Classic...

[Woden]

Is powerlifting full of complainers? Everybody bashing on eachother. This lift was done improper, he used 4 ply cheat gear, he had a kevlar bench shirt, they use steroids, he only lifts 3 times his bodyweight, his squat wasnt an inch low enough to be good enough, I squat atg butt touching the floor so my squat is so much more impressive, I bench with no arch or a bench shirt so I am much more impressive and better than you he used a monolift and I didnt, I bet if I put on Rychlak's shirt I could bench 8000 because I train raw all the time. who is the best in the world? Who cares be the best you can be! Powerlifting is not going to stay in the stone age it is going to evolve with everything else. Quit complaining about everything and get out there and train and be the best you can be. Powerlifting is headed for crap as long as you all keep complaining. Next thing you know they will have people put there feet up on the bench in comps to see who really has the strongest upper body.

You whine about people whining more than any one else whines. Every sport has dissention of opinion, get used to it.

[Mateo_66]

You whine about people whining more than any one else whines. Every sport has dissention of opinion, get used to it.

Yeah

[Dark Phoenix]

I refer you to the case of Coleman vs. Cutler

[Perceptionist]

I am here to complain about all the people that continue to complain about all the complainers that choose to complain. Why complain against complainers that complain when you become a complainer yourself? Now I am here complaining about complainers that complain about other complainers. No more complaining about complainers that complain about complainers that complain. Bye complainers.

[De Haan]

They have this bull**** in all sports, you should some of the backstabbing, jealousy and hatred in baseball.

What really irks me is when juiced up athletes start complaining and fingerpointing about others being on steroids.

Thats the ultimate hypocrisy

[randall_truscot]

this thread is pointless. jsut mroe whining. jsut lift ppl. whether its with 100% cotton or 100ply equip. jsut lift.

[MrMoonsault]

Complain is such a weird word if you really look at it and analyze it.

[Mr Beer]

Most of the "complaints" about PL are from non-PL'ers. Hence, I reject your reality and substitute my own.

[Doc Iron]

Is that the sport has been ruined.

It used to be a beautifully simple sport. The person who lifted more weight was the winner ... how could anyone screw that up?

Well, they managed ... with equipment, drugs, dozens of federations, different rules etc.

Now people don't want to hear about complaining ... they say they've heard it before, that those who complain are flogging a dead horse.

OK, fair enough ... but that doesn't change the fact that the sport has been ruined.

And it won't get "un-ruined" (assuming that's even possible) until people face the reasons why it's ruined.

[Mateo_66]

Is that the sport has been ruined.

It used to be a beautifully simple sport. The person who lifted more weight was the winner ... how could anyone screw that up?

Well, they managed ... with equipment, drugs, dozens of federations, different rules etc.

Now people don't want to hear about complaining ... they say they've heard it before, that those who complain are flogging a dead horse.

OK, fair enough ... but that doesn't change the fact that the sport has been ruined.

And it won't get "un-ruined" (assuming that's even possible) until people face the reasons why it's ruined.

Was football, basketball, track and field and any other sport thats gear progresses with time ruined? Go to www.westside-barbell.com and read Louie Simmons articles he is probably one the of smartest men in powerlifting. Do we(powerlifters) train the same way they did 40 years ago? Maybe in some things but we progress and get smarter with time. A closed mind learns nothing. I see where these arguments are coming from and I understand but you have to look at gears original purpose "protection" The gear is not doing the lifting it does help though but so do knee wraps which were used back then too. Different feds allow different gear if you dont agree with the gear dont enter the meet just because you dont like gear does that mean you should take my rights away to have one fed that is raw so you can have your satisfaction. I mean what would one joint fed really do for everyone? I personally would like to try every fed out there, Raw, Unlimited, 2 ply, and one ply and anything else. I compete to have fun and better myself and educate the populous about my sport and get as many others to compete and have fun with me as I can. If you dont understand me and what I stand for then so be it I try my best to let others know.

[Dark Phoenix]

Most of the "complaints" about PL are from non-PL'ers. Hence, I reject your reality and substitute my own.

Mythbusters fan?

[The Hobbit]

I am here to complain about all the people that continue to complain about all the complainers that choose to complain. Why complain against complainers that complain when you become a complainer yourself? Now I am here complaining about complainers that complain about other complainers. No more complaining about complainers that complain about complainers that complain. Bye complainers.

I'm here to complain about the person complaining about the complainers complaining about the people complaining about powerlifting.

I need scuba diving equipment to swim in the river that you've cried.

[Doc Iron]

Was football, basketball, track and field and any other sport thats gear progresses with time ruined? Go to www.westside-barbell.com and read Louie Simmons articles he is probably one the of smartest men in powerlifting. Do we(powerlifters) train the same way they did 40 years ago? Maybe in some things but we progress and get smarter with time. A closed mind learns nothing. I see where these arguments are coming from and I understand but you have to look at gears original purpose "protection" The gear is not doing the lifting it does help though but so do knee wraps which were used back then too. Different feds allow different gear if you dont agree with the gear dont enter the meet just because you dont like gear does that mean you should take my rights away to have one fed that is raw so you can have your satisfaction. I mean what would one joint fed really do for everyone? I personally would like to try every fed out there, Raw, Unlimited, 2 ply, and one ply and anything else. I compete to have fun and better myself and educate the populous about my sport and get as many others to compete and have fun with me as I can. If you dont understand me and what I stand for then so be it I try my best to let others know.

The trouble with your argument Mateo is that powerlifting gear is approximately 5% about protection and 95% about inflating numbers. Perhaps in the early days of simple, single ply bench shirts it was primarily about reducing pec and shoulder injuries (though I tend to disagree even with this ... I think gear reduces the chances of suffering certain kinds of injuries while increasing the risk of others ... it provides a false sense of security).

Today this is certainly not the case. I hear gear proponents continually saying "the gear doesn't lift the weight for us, I've never seen a shirt get up and bench something by itself". Well, actually, it does. It's a kinetic, mechanical device, it stores energy and then releases it. How much energy? Well, seems like about 300 pounds for the best benchers (Mendelson's record is 715 raw, 1008 with gear). That's the bench press of your average, relatively strong, gym rat. We used to bash the hell out of people like Jimmy "Iron Bull" Pellechia for reporting huge assisted bench presses (1015 was his record, as I recall). Yet his lifts are really no different from modern geared powerlifts.

I'm not sure what gear you're talking about in basketball or track and field, but in football, while protective gear has certainly advanced, that gear is NOT about letting players tackle harder, jump higher or run faster. Further, if you review the literature on football injuries, there's much to suggest that they've gotten WORSE since the advent of modern gear. It's called an unintended consequence. Players take risks now that they wouldn't have taken before (you're not likely to launch yourself into an airborne, head first spear tackle of someone if you're not wearing helmets and pads). I believe the same thing is starting to happen in PL.

And no one (well, at least not me) wants to take away anyone's right to lift however they want. You can lift with denim bench shirts, canvas bench shirts, spotters hauling on the bar, 1/4 squats in a smith machine, heck, use a fork lift truck to help you haul up the weight if you really want. Whatever floats your boat and lets you have fun is fine with me (I really mean that).

But recognize that lifting in these ways is what prevents this sport from gaining wider acceptance. It prevents it from people outside of powerlifting from having respect for powerlifting. That's just reality.

No one ever questions whether an Olympic lifter can actually lift the weight he's moving, yet whenever a powerlifter reports some kind of record EVERYONE (both inside and outside the community) immediately starts questioning whether the record is legitimate. That's a direct result of the direction the sport has taken over the past 20 years and gear has been a big contributor to this state of affairs.

If you're OK with this, so be it, just understand that this is how it's always going to be.

[AndrewHale]

I agree that it happens in all sports. Maybe it seems to be extreme in powerlifting and bodybuilding because it's an individual sport, the people involved work so hard, and put so much into it, that the jealousy factor runs extremely high. Especially because a lot of people don't have the resourcefulness to find online forums like these to help with their progress, so they stall, still work extremely hard, but don't progress, and resent anyone who does progress.

For example, when I wrestled, people would always be willing to help and work on moves and techniques with you, because you were competing within a school. In basketball, there's a TEAM that your playing on, you're part of something bigger than you, and your success means everyone elses. At my boxing gym, it's competitive but others are always willing to help, and the gym has a sense of community. Unless your at the WSB Club, most gyms won't have the group mentality.

It's also easier to talk trash about someones lifts than accept them as being able to lift more. "It doesn't count because of A. or B., therefore I'm still better."

People will always be jealous about what they are not, or can't do.

EDIT: Deleted a paragraph with a boxing example where I rambled on too much.

[De Haan]

The trouble with your argument Mateo is that powerlifting gear is approximately 5% about protection and 95% about inflating numbers. Perhaps in the early days of simple, single ply bench shirts it was primarily about reducing pec and shoulder injuries (though I tend to disagree even with this ... I think gear reduces the chances of suffering certain kinds of injuries while increasing the risk of others ... it provides a false sense of security).

Today this is certainly not the case. I hear gear proponents continually saying "the gear doesn't lift the weight for us, I've never seen a shirt get up and bench something by itself". Well, actually, it does. It's a kinetic, mechanical device, it stores energy and then releases it. How much energy? Well, seems like about 300 pounds for the best benchers (Mendelson's record is 715 raw, 1008 with gear). That's the bench press of your average, relatively strong, gym rat. We used to bash the hell out of people like Jimmy "Iron Bull" Pellechia for reporting huge assisted bench presses (1015 was his record, as I recall). Yet his lifts are really no different from modern geared powerlifts.

I'm not sure what gear you're talking about in basketball or track and field, but in football, while protective gear has certainly advanced, that gear is NOT about letting players tackle harder, jump higher or run faster. Further, if you review the literature on football injuries, there's much to suggest that they've gotten WORSE since the advent of modern gear. It's called an unintended consequence. Players take risks now that they wouldn't have taken before (you're not likely to launch yourself into an airborne, head first spear tackle of someone if you're not wearing helmets and pads). I believe the same thing is starting to happen in PL.

And no one (well, at least not me) wants to take away anyone's right to lift however they want. You can lift with denim bench shirts, canvas bench shirts, spotters hauling on the bar, 1/4 squats in a smith machine, heck, use a fork lift truck to help you haul up the weight if you really want. Whatever floats your boat and lets you have fun is fine with me (I really mean that).

But recognize that lifting in these ways is what prevents this sport from gaining wider acceptance. It prevents it from people outside of powerlifting from having respect for powerlifting. That's just reality.

No one ever questions whether an Olympic lifter can actually lift the weight he's moving, yet whenever a powerlifter reports some kind of record EVERYONE (both inside and outside the community) immediately starts questioning whether the record is legitimate. That's a direct result of the direction the sport has taken over the past 20 years and gear has been a big contributor to this state of affairs.

If you're OK with this, so be it, just understand that this is how it's always going to be.

Post of the year and lets give this man a diplomatic job in some foreign country

[lifterg]

No one ever questions whether an Olympic lifter can actually lift the weight he's moving, yet whenever a powerlifter reports some kind of record EVERYONE (both inside and outside the community) immediately starts questioning whether the record is legitimate. That's a direct result of the direction the sport has taken over the past 20 years and gear has been a big contributor to this state of affairs.

The gear argument will never go away, and neither will the disputes over whose rules are used. I've lifted in everything from the original Super Suits and t-shirts, to a Leviathon I got about 2 weeks ago. I still compete anywhere I can, single ply and "extreme" as long as I like the fed and the people I lift with/against. I don't really care about gear as long as I get to lift.

My question is do we really believe that anyone outside of PL cares when we set records? Or do you think the public even knows there is a difference between PL and OL?

The other argument is that "the public thinks PL has become a joke" and gear makes in non-marketable.

Have you ever seen a bodybuilding show (men's or women's) on TV with "normal" people. You can't tell me that they don't treat guys shaving and oiling and women bigger than most guys as a joke. But bodybuilding is extremely marketable. PL competitions take too long? Have you ever been to a bodybuilding pre-judging?

BB is marketable because Weider (and others) poured a lot of $$ in over a bunch of years and grew the market. Strongman is starting to grow because Met-RX (and others) have been putting in major cash. People are now starting to put $$ into PL.

If enough $$ is put into PL over enough years, it will grow regardless of gear, drugs, shaved heads or chuck taylors. When it does some feds will grow some will disappear, but it will be based more on market position and budgets than gear or drug testing. Right or wrong it is the way the world works.

Perception sells. Not reality and most people aren't bright enough to tell the difference

[Mateo_66]

http://www.joeskopec.com/frank.html This is a good read.

[Bowdirk]

Next Generation of Gear...

http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/bleex.htm

Once that is available, I wonder which Fed it will be used in?

[De Haan]

Next Generation of Gear...

http://bleex.me.berkeley.edu/bleex.htm

Once that is available, I wonder which Fed it will be used in?

OMG............LMAO...............

Once that is available, I wonder which Fed it will be used in?

I'm thinking NASA perhaps: http://www.nasa-sports.com/

[Mateo_66]

OMG............LMAO...............


I'm thinking NASA perhaps: http://www.nasa-sports.com/

Why do you think Nasa?

[Mr Beer]

Mythbusters fan?

Who isn't?