Split vs. Full body ?

[MXER809]

this is my full body workout i've been doing for a while.. just want to know if id see more results doing a split/ some advice on it

Im on a clean bulk diet, high protien and all that chicken/tuna/fish pbj oats and about 6 meals a day. im pretty good with my diet stuff but I wanna check on the workout.

Im doing full body workouts 3 days a week, MWF and Cardio either bike or swimming on Tues/Thurs (have to do cardio for racing)

workout: usually goes like this..

warm up: 5min on bike, stretch, 30 unweighted situps on decline

legs:

start with leg lift, leg curl, calve raises: 3x8

squats: 5x5
deads: 5x5

chest 4x8: I pick 2 from the following

db press/dips/cable crossovers/flys/db flys/machine where you sit down and kinda push plates above you up slightly/out/inward (switch it up alot)

Back 4x8: again pick 2 (perform like 1 set chest, 1 set back, 1 set chest, ect till 4x8 of each are done)

reaal wide grip pull ups/ wide lat pull downs/ close grip lat pull downs/ reverse db flys/ bent over row/ seated row

shoulders: pick 1 4x8

db shoulder press/ db military press/ cuban press/ arnold press/ seated row

biceps: 5x5 pull ups or 4x8 db standing curl/hammer curl/preacher

tricep: 4x8 standing cable w/ rope tricep extension or cable bar tricep extension

abs:

3x30 situps on ball or 3x15 cable crunches
transverse ab exercise
3x12 side bends on back extension thing or floor exercise for same muscle
3x12 leg lifts + pulse up or other variation of lower ab

[MXER809]

something? lol

[BiggerWeighter]

split is better. uj got more energy to focus on individual body parts. i couldnt imagine doing bench or deadlift after a heavy set of squats.

[nWe]

Full body vs split: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/310/

ENJOY!

[HY9]

split so your muscles get more rest

[Beowolf Agate]

split is better. uj got more energy to focus on individual body parts. i couldnt imagine doing bench or deadlift after a heavy set of squats.

....
I'm not even going to point out what was wrong with this statement.

Try this:
4 compounds, 2 iso's, 1 ab

1 Chest Compound
1 Back Compound
1 Quad Compound
1 Ham Compound
1 Tri Iso
1 Bi Iso
1 Ab Exercise

Choose different exercises for three different workouts, and rotate them for three workouts a week.

[nWe]

split is better. uj got more energy to focus on individual body parts. i couldnt imagine doing bench or deadlift after a heavy set of squats.

Well just think about it.

If you use all your powers with heavy squat, bench and deadlift + a curl exercise and a triceps exercise like narrow grip bench press.

What do you think produces most growth? Heavy compound exercises for the whole body in one day or a shoulderday with shoulderpress, lateral raises, bent over lateral raises, front raise? You won't almost sweat on the shoulder day and your testosterone level will be really low compared to the full body day.

When you train your whole body hard it will send out a signal to your body to grow.

So you can rather do heavy squating, benching and deadlift in one day or an upper/lower splitt, but for gods sake don't train stupid days with one bodypart eatch day.

[MXER809]

Full body vs split: http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/310/

ENJOY!

thanks a lot, very helpful article.. guess ill stick with the full body workouts, change it up a little and keep plowing food lol

thanks to everyone else who responded!

[Pro-Choice]

split is better. uj got more energy to focus on individual body parts. i couldnt imagine doing bench or deadlift after a heavy set of squats.

Your last sentence completely invalidates your whole argument. So you do a heavy set of squats and your legs are trashed..... so then you can do bench with your upper body that has not been worked yet.

After doing splits for like over 4 years the thought of fullbody never crossed my mind, once I started doing fullbody workouts with good diet I grew and my lifts went up faster than ever. Beowolf has the right idea, 4 compound + 2 isolation makes for a good amount of things to do in a day. I'd also recommend doing different lifts each day, so you don't have to do squats and deadlifts or cleans or something like that on the same day.

[olinerules87]

split is better. uj got more energy to focus on individual body parts. i couldnt imagine doing bench or deadlift after a heavy set of squats.

if you do a set of squats your legs will be tired but your chest will still be at 100% in a fullbody.
in a split you will work a muscle, tire it out, and continue to destroy it.

in a fullbody you work the muscle when it is at 100% every workout.

i don't see how a doing 3 leg exercises all in one day could ever be better than doing one leg exercise 3 days per week

split so your muscles get more rest

your muscles don't need a whole week to recover. for a lot of people that is undertraining

Your last sentence completely invalidates your whole argument. So you do a heavy set of squats and your legs are trashed..... so then you can do bench with your upper body that has not been worked yet.

After doing splits for like over 4 years the thought of fullbody never crossed my mind, once I started doing fullbody workouts with good diet I grew and my lifts went up faster than ever. Beowolf has the right idea, 4 compound + 2 isolation makes for a good amount of things to do in a day. I'd also recommend doing different lifts each day, so you don't have to do squats and deadlifts or cleans or something like that on the same day.

I have seen great gains since going back to fullbodys too.


***Let this be said,..my beliefs stated above aren't meant for everyone. But I do believe that fullbody and upperlower splits are the best for most of the population.
btw I am a huge fan of high frequency training (working muscles 3+ times a week not to failure)- it is amazing and great at quickly getting you bigger

[olinerules87]

Well just think about it.

If you use all your powers with heavy squat, bench and deadlift + a curl exercise and a triceps exercise like narrow grip bench press.

What do you think produces most growth? Heavy compound exercises for the whole body in one day or a shoulderday with shoulderpress, lateral raises, bent over lateral raises, front raise? You won't almost sweat on the shoulder day and your testosterone level will be really low compared to the full body day.

When you train your whole body hard it will send out a signal to your body to grow.

So you can rather do heavy squating, benching and deadlift in one day or an upper/lower splitt, but for gods sake don't train stupid days with one bodypart eatch day.

....
I'm not even going to point out what was wrong with this statement.

Try this:
4 compounds, 2 iso's, 1 ab

1 Chest Compound
1 Back Compound
1 Quad Compound
1 Ham Compound
1 Tri Iso
1 Bi Iso
1 Ab Exercise

Choose different exercises for three different workouts, and rotate them for three workouts a week.

good points both of you. will try to remember to rep on recharge

[Sick96stang]

Well just think about it.

If you use all your powers with heavy squat, bench and deadlift + a curl exercise and a triceps exercise like narrow grip bench press.

What do you think produces most growth? Heavy compound exercises for the whole body in one day or a shoulderday with shoulderpress, lateral raises, bent over lateral raises, front raise? You won't almost sweat on the shoulder day and your testosterone level will be really low compared to the full body day.

When you train your whole body hard it will send out a signal to your body to grow.


So you can rather do heavy squating, benching and deadlift in one day or an upper/lower splitt, but for gods sake don't train stupid days with one bodypart eatch day.

The shoulder day would produce more growth in your shoulders. You are isolating all parts of your shoulder and working them specifically and also doing a compound shoulder exercise. You do realize there is more to muscle growth than just testerone levels right?

When you train period you break down your muscles and then your body sends out a signal to repair the muscles bigger. You don't have to lift your whole body hard in one workout to grow bigger.

ROFL, that last paragraph is hilarious. Is that why there are tons of pro bod-builders who do "training stupid days with one body part each day".

[PROTOSSterone]

ROFL, that last paragraph is hilarious. Is that why there are tons of pro bod-builders who do "training stupid days with one body part each day".

pros train with splits because they already have a tonne of mass and focusing on certain body parts each day helps them perfect their physique. But for majority of us regular people, a full body workout program is probably more efficient in gaining mass.

The shoulder day would produce more growth in your shoulders. You are isolating all parts of your shoulder and working them specifically and also doing a compound shoulder exercise. You do realize there is more to muscle growth than just testerone levels right?

You can still isolate all parts of your shoulders on a full body. You are supposed to switch around your 2 isolation exercises each workout. Plus, you're working shoulders 3 times a week so you're still going to end up with about the same number of sets per week.

You don't have to lift your whole body hard in one workout to grow bigger.

That's not what he said though.

[SleepwenUrDEad]

pros, train with splits because they already have a tonne of mass and focusing on certain body parts each day helps them perfect their physique. But for majority of us regular people, a full body workout program is probably more efficient in gaining mass.

2x took words straight outta my mouth

[Sick96stang]

pros train with splits because they already have a tonne of mass and focusing on certain body parts each day helps them perfect their physique. But for majority of us regular people, a full body workout program is probably more efficient in gaining mass.


You can still isolate all parts of your shoulders on a full body. You are supposed to switch around your 2 isolation exercises each workout. Plus, you're working shoulders 3 times a week so you're still going to end up with about the same number of sets per week.


That's not what he said though.

I haven't heard of any pros who have said "when I first began I used a full body, but now that I have mass I use a split". If you know of any please enlighten me.

What full body workout includes two shoulder isolation exercises per workout?? Also I think you forget that just because you only directly work the shoulders one day a week on a chest day you will probably end up indirectly working them so that is actually two times per week you would work your shoulders. Ok so same # of sets per week yet less rest time for recovery and the full body routine would be advantageous why?

[PROTOSSterone]

I haven't heard of any pros who have said "when I first began I used a full body, but now that I have mass I use a split". If you know of any please enlighten me.

it's not my job to enlighten you and nor do i want to. Your posts are filled with arrogance and misplaced confidence. You can do and believe anything you want.
However, there's some really good reads out there such as
The rippletoe program for beginners:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224
And Waterbury's full body workout program:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031

[PROTOSSterone]

What full body workout includes two shoulder isolation exercises per workout?? Also I think you forget that just because you only directly work the shoulders one day a week on a chest day you will probably end up indirectly working them so that is actually two times per week you would work your shoulders.

Earlier, you misread nWe's post and now you have misread mine. Where did i say two shoulder isolations per workout? I said you can still have isolations, for example:
Monday: 4 compounds + lateral raises and curls
Wednesday: 4 compounds + flyes and skull crushers
Friday: 4 compounds + rear lateral raises and calf raises

If you were to do a shoulder split once a week, you'd do a press of some sort, lateral raises, rear raises and maybe something else like upright rows.
So you see, the number of isolation sets are about the same.

Ok so same # of sets per week yet less rest time for recovery and the full body routine would be advantageous why?

you forget one thing, the volume on each body part is less per workout for a full body program so you might not need as much time to recover.
eg:
Splits (chest): 3xbench, 3xfly, 3xdips, 3xpullovers = 12 sets in one day!
Fullbody (chest): 3-5xbench and sometimes add 3xfly = 3-5 sets most of the time but can go high as 8 sets.
Which one do you think needs more recovery?

However let's not all forget we're really generalizing the issue, everyone is still different.

[T3mpest]

I haven't heard of any pros who have said "when I first began I used a full body, but now that I have mass I use a split". If you know of any please enlighten me.

What full body workout includes two shoulder isolation exercises per workout?? Also I think you forget that just because you only directly work the shoulders one day a week on a chest day you will probably end up indirectly working them so that is actually two times per week you would work your shoulders. Ok so same # of sets per week yet less rest time for recovery and the full body routine would be advantageous why?

Pros are also not who you should be basing your routine on. Unless of course your a genetic freak who also takes every supplement known to man, if so then sure, go ahead. For 99% of the population gaining MASS is their number 1 priority when bodybuilding. Volume/isolation work simply isnt' going to cut it for most people. When you excerice your body uses chemicals to stumulate muscle growth, which exercises cause the greatest stimulation? The ones that use the most muscles of course. At the early stages of bodybuilding, strength training IS size training. You should be training like a newbie powerlifter, not a 3x MR olympia, like it or not. You ever seen a bodybuilder doing 250lb squats? Didnt' think so. Until you phsyically have enough mass on your body to worry about isolation you really shouldn't. To get that mass as quickly as possible you need to work with high weights, low reps and fullbody or simple upper lower split, 2-3 days a week. I'm sure many pros didnt' follow this format, but heck, most pros have the genetics to grow by looking at the wieght. For average joe, sticking to actual strength training before worrying about pure hypertrophy work.

There are alot of people who would preach the same, DC and Iron Addict to name 2. Honestly, it's worked well for me. One kid at my gym works light almost all isolation movements, no big lifts but bench. He's there 4 days a week, 1-2 hrs each day. I've simply blown past him working out 2 days a week for maybe 45 minutes a day.

[TangerineRavine]

lol i find it amusing that one guys posts about how he thinks splits are better and everyone tries to shut him down.

You guys obviously like your full body routines, I like my split, you can't convince me otherwise and I doubt i can convince you.

For me volume, and "stupid days with one bodypart eatch day" seem to work pretty well.

The biggest issue for me is frequency and intensity. I can train my legs hard enough and push far enough past failure that I can be sore for 5-7 days afterwards and often will wait anywhere from 7-11 days between workouts. I wonder whether i would be better off not training to failure so I can recover faster and workout more often. Usually i take the middle road and train legs once a week.

[PROTOSSterone]

lol i find it amusing that one guys posts about how he thinks splits are better and everyone tries to shut him down.

it's not so much what he said but how he said it. I mean cmon, the guy's a douche.

You guys obviously like your full body routines, I like my split, you can't convince me otherwise and I doubt i can convince you.

For me volume, and "stupid days with one bodypart eatch day" seem to work pretty well.

that's cool i did say in my previous post:

However let's not all forget we're really generalizing the issue, everyone is still different.

[SleepwenUrDEad]

it's not my job to enlighten you and nor do i want to. Your posts are filled with arrogance and misplaced confidence. You can do and believe anything you want.
However, there's some really good reads out there such as
The rippletoe program for beginners:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=998224
And Waterbury's full body workout program:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031

hey man thanks for that waterburys program post, really good link thanks gonna use it, i would rep u but dnt no how and i got no reps

[TrueNZ]

This is honestly a case of "there are many ways to skin a cat", I mean Ive put on 15kg(33lb) since Sept 06 using a fullbody and some massive eating, but Im plateauing and am looking for a decent split to get me out of it, the way see it, as long and your taking in a ****load of calories, training hard and consistant, and varying when needed, you cant go far wrong with either.

[olinerules87]

pros train with splits because they already have a tonne of mass and focusing on certain body parts each day helps them perfect their physique. But for majority of us regular people, a full body workout program is probably more efficient in gaining mass.


You can still isolate all parts of your shoulders on a full body. You are supposed to switch around your 2 isolation exercises each workout. Plus, you're working shoulders 3 times a week so you're still going to end up with about the same number of sets per week.


That's not what he said though.

totally agree with the statement about pros

Pros are also not who you should be basing your routine on. Unless of course your a genetic freak who also takes every supplement known to man, if so then sure, go ahead. For 99% of the population gaining MASS is their number 1 priority when bodybuilding. Volume/isolation work simply isnt' going to cut it for most people. When you excerice your body uses chemicals to stumulate muscle growth, which exercises cause the greatest stimulation? The ones that use the most muscles of course. At the early stages of bodybuilding, strength training IS size training. You should be training like a newbie powerlifter, not a 3x MR olympia, like it or not. You ever seen a bodybuilder doing 250lb squats? Didnt' think so. Until you phsyically have enough mass on your body to worry about isolation you really shouldn't. To get that mass as quickly as possible you need to work with high weights, low reps and fullbody or simple upper lower split, 2-3 days a week. I'm sure many pros didnt' follow this format, but heck, most pros have the genetics to grow by looking at the wieght. For average joe, sticking to actual strength training before worrying about pure hypertrophy work.

There are alot of people who would preach the same, DC and Iron Addict to name 2. Honestly, it's worked well for me. One kid at my gym works light almost all isolation movements, no big lifts but bench. He's there 4 days a week, 1-2 hrs each day. I've simply blown past him working out 2 days a week for maybe 45 minutes a day.

Train Like a Pro. IF You're a Pro!
The training programs professional athletes use are designed for pros: genetic wonders who already have more than ten-plus years of serious training behind them. They already have the base, the work capacity, and the general conditioning. Their program can focus on correcting specific flaws or filling some precise needs. A young athlete should first focus on building up his foundation of muscle mass, strength, and work capacity. If you want to train like a pro, train like he did when he had your level of experience, not how he's training now!
-Christian Thibaudeau

However let's not all forget we're really generalizing the issue, everyone is still different.

exactly, what works for most people does not always work for everyone.

Full Body for Most
Probably around 80-90% of the population, 80-90% of the time, will respond best to total body workouts. And I'd say that maybe 90-95% of the population, 90-95% of the time, will respond best to either total body or an upper and lower split.
But make sure to read my entire statement. I'm also saying that 10-20% of the population will not respond best to total body workouts, and that 10-20% of the time these programs won't work. The problem is, there can't be an answer that's 100% correct, 100% of the time, for 100% of people, but I'm comfortable with the "most of the people, most of the time" part of my philosophy.
-Alwyn Cosgrove

[Thunderjason]

I've had better results with split

[Vicom]

split so your muscles get more rest

What's the point if you can workout the same muscle 48 hours later?

lol i find it amusing that one guys posts about how he thinks splits are better and everyone tries to shut him down.

What's the amusing part?

The biggest issue for me is frequency and intensity. I can train my legs hard enough and push far enough past failure that I can be sore for 5-7 days afterwards and often will wait anywhere from 7-11 days between workouts. I wonder whether i would be better off not training to failure so I can recover faster and workout more often. Usually i take the middle road and train legs once a week.

Lol read up on why training to failure is bad. Just because you're more sore for a longer period of time doesn't mean you've induced more growth with a split.

I've had better results with split

Not to be rude, but how can you tell what has worked better for you being only 5' 7" 147 lbs?

[dumac]

i prefer the split it seems to enhance my recovery.

[olinerules87]

i prefer the split it seems to enhance my recovery.

not trying to be an @ss but how does a split enhance recovery?

you have more recovery time which doesn't force the body to increase its recovery rate.

In a higher frequency program, you body must adapt and increase its recovery to be able to do the next workout. That is enhancing your recovery.

sorry, but I gotta totally disagree with your statement there

[matthewskyle]

i do a split and always have and always will..to the idiot that said you wont even sweat on shoulders, you obviously have never worked your shoulders out hard...i dont know about you but i usually sweat and am tired after 20-24 sets.

[matthewskyle]

^^ whats so hard to understand about how it enhances recovery...say you do a full body workout 3 days a week, but when you go to your 2nd day you might stil be sore, and if your not, you aint working out hard enough. a split works perfectly and always will for building mass and definition. you guys are doing your whole body then hoping it recovers in time for your next day. we workout 5-6 times a week, and are never using the same body part in two consecutive days, not to mention at 72 hrs you already started losing definition and muscle..but yeah full body ftw /sarcasm.

[olinerules87]

^^ whats so hard to understand about how it enhances recovery...say you do a full body workout 3 days a week, but when you go to your 2nd day you might stil be sore, and if your not, you aint working out hard enough. a split works perfectly and always will for building mass and definition. you guys are doing your whole body then hoping it recovers in time for your next day. we workout 5-6 times a week, and are never using the same body part in two consecutive days, not to mention at 72 hrs you already started losing definition and muscle..but yeah full body ftw /sarcasm.

I do fully recover before my next workouts.
and soreness is not an indicator of growth or how hard you are working

stop making statements absout fullbody training until you are actually knowledgeable about how they work. and yes I have studied and done split routines and do know how they work

edit: I am not trying to say fullbody is for everyone, I do realize some people do respong better to splits. My opinions are what I believe is best for most (not all) people