If you do not do direct ab work, you're an idiot.

[ewitte]

Dumbell on chest

So much better than 3 45lb plates

[W8isGR8]

Who are you referring to now, my friend? Me?

Anyone who it applies too

There's a whole lot of sclae worship going on around here and not enough focus on body comp.

[MassIsAhead]

Anyone who it applies too

There's a whole lot of sclae worship going on around here and not enough focus on body comp.

Good, because it doesn't apply to me - and as part of a greater program to gain and cut I don't think it's insecurity at all. It's rational. We are rational individuals, right?

Oh, I'd like someone to explain this little thing, I don't really understand it - why is it anyone else's business?

[W8isGR8]

Good, because it doesn't apply to me - and as part of a greater program to gain and cut I don't think it's insecurity at all. It's rational. We are rational individuals, right?

Yeah, you guys are great at "rationalizing" being fat

[papi93]

lol

Insecurity is freaking out and stuffing your face everytime the scale number drops.

Guility as charged when I was in high school and college. Many ectos suffer from this problem.

[Defiant1]

There's a whole lot of sclae worship going on around here and not enough focus on body comp.

It's spelled "Ska"

[Screamin]

Yeah, you guys are great at "rationalizing" being fat

Careful you don't turn that magnifying glass inward...

[MassIsAhead]

Yeah, you guys are great at "rationalizing" being fat

You are great at rationalizing that you have made very little gains Little related to how much will, effort, time, focus and money you've put into training.

In case you miss the point: getting "fat" is "part of the plan", what's always up to debate is HOW fat, and funnily enough we learn by doing. Nice how that works.

[Defiant1]

Yeah, you guys are great at "rationalizing" being fat

This is seriously bordering on the other end of requiring people to be a certain size before we take their advice for anything bodybuilding related.

[Random Guy]

Yeah, you guys are great at "rationalizing" being fat

Fat is the new skinny.

[W8isGR8]

You are great at rationalizing that you have made very little gains Little related to how much will, effort, time, focus and money you've put into training.

No, I've made great gains. I just have high standards.

[dbcb314]

"your little virus". Nice guy. Keep swinging below the belt if it makes you feel better. I'm not commenting on whether either of them is natural, I've simply taken what they've stated and used it in examples. Their body, their business. I'm not f*cking Sherlock Holmes here. The fact is no one here has been able to duplicate Hola's results. Like I said, people have figured out how to stay small and lean. Get big and pack on some flab. But combine size + conditioning, go on, make a list for me.

What do you consider size and conditioning? Is being "conditioned" mean 8% body fat or just not a fat ass?

Firstly, get this through your head => I didn't mention steroids. HE DID. So that was a wasted argument. Go and find a post from me where I've said "Hola is on steroids." Find it. I have pointed out the obvious: natural + big + lean is uncommon. So uncommon we keep talking about Hola. Why? Because the rest of us haven't put it all together yet.

and of course you didn't mention it right out. Thats not your style... gotta be subtle so you can back track. of course everyone on here knew exactly what you were implying over and over and over and over and over.

have you even tried doing both btw? Why not show off your incredible lean mass you are carrying you so readily talk about. Oh of course not. Too insecure about feeling small.

How many peopel have hola's mass in the first place? you gotta have the muscle before you cut it down anyway so thats a mute point.

Keep going, let it all out. You haven't let go of DD's comments (talk about being on a freaking trip with all the monkey and race card attachments), so it's good to see all this pent up **** coming out so we know where we stand. If I didn't know better I'd say Tim was feeding you lines from the other side. You're much better at the "lol hahaha fat ass" ****.

Anyway, I'll keep doing what I'm doing and I don't need anyone to hold my hand either. We'll see where we all end up.

Few things about this...

1. I won't let DD's comments go because it was really funny and I am gonna keep the joke going until it bores me.

2. Nope, Timmy isn't involved at all. For all I know Timmy's fat ass is at Sea World eating some ice cream and waving at shamoo.

[MassIsAhead]

This is seriously bordering on the other end of requiring people to be a certain size before we take their advice for anything bodybuilding related.

Hey, we need to listen to those small and LEAN guys with Brad Pitt physiques!

Dave Tate? Heavyweight strongmen? Heavyweight powerlifters? Any heavy training authority that isn't ripped? Who cares about what THEY have to say, what do THEY know, right?

[W8isGR8]

This is seriously bordering on the other end of requiring people to be a certain size before we take their advice for anything bodybuilding related.

STFU tiny



BTW, pullovers don't expand the ribcage

[MassIsAhead]

No, I've made great gains. I just have high standards.

That's a great rational statement.

[The Real Deal]

Hey, we need to listen to those small and LEAN guys with Brad Pitt physiques!

Dave Tate? Heavyweight strongmen? Heavyweight powerlifters? Any heavy training authority that isn't ripped? Who cares about what THEY have to say, what do THEY know, right?

god shut up. you act like theres only one way to train and achieve size and thats to load up on food and eat til you cant see your feet. Heck its fine since your gonna cut it all away without losing muscle right? God luck.

[Random Guy]

This is seriously bordering on the other end of requiring people to be a certain size before we take their advice for anything bodybuilding related.

I'm decent size and I never know what the phuck I'm talking about

[Dominik]

Anyone who it applies too

There's a whole lot of sclae worship going on around here and not enough focus on body comp.

Fair comment. You could also apply it to weights. Your strength temporarily goes down, same deal. Obviously they're two indicators that show you're at least not going backwards. I know if my lifts are going up, and my weight hasn't dropped, I haven't gone backwards in terms of my main goals which is to build more muscle and strength.

Anyway, at the root of all this, and on Aqua's thread, it's been about goals. That's the whole reason I got into this debate. There was a time when people here seemed a lot more supportive. I mean remember when you cut down to 150 for that contest? Did I ever insult you? I just wanted to see you kick ass at it and when you were done, get your weight back up to 180~ since you kept bitching about feeling small. The point is, they were your goals at the time. It sucks that the place has devolved into a flamefest where hardly anyone seems to give a **** for the other person's goals.

[MassIsAhead]

god shut up. you act like theres only one way to train and achieve size and thats to load up on food and eat til you cant see your feet. Heck its fine since your gonna cut it all away without losing muscle right? God luck.

I didn't know you were that religious. I hope you don't worship me that much to think I am God?!
And no, you seem to be having a debate with someone else, not me, since I didn't argue there was only one way. I've made it clear I intend to bulk on fewer cals in the future.

Apropos training and achieving size (and strength?), you might want to try it before you throw things my way

[dbcb314]

I mean remember when you cut down to 150 for that contest? Did I ever insult you?

I did

[EoR]

Fat is the new skinny.

lol! This was hilarious because of the timing.

Just remember carrying some excess fat is not equivalent to the socially accept definition of "fat" people associate with. It's a misleading term that gets misused a lot.

[The Real Deal]

Apropos training and achieving size (and strength?), you might want to try it before you throw things my way

Same to you about cutting.

[Defiant1]

STFU tiny



BTW, pullovers don't expand the ribcage

Bodybuilding is about 50 different things.

From the sport to building any muscle.

So, a competitive bodybuilder could get on here and say "you're not bodybuilders". Which would be wrong.


Arguing what the hell it is is getting crazy.



Many of the guys doing it know better.


Telling people they have to deadlift=telling people they have to be at certain bodyfat to be a "bodybuilder"=telling people how many sets they have to do for each bodypart.


Meaning, a waste of time and mental effort.

[W8isGR8]

Fair comment. You could also apply it to weights. Your strength temporarily goes down, same deal. Obviously they're two indicators that show you're at least not going backwards. I know if my lifts are going up, and my weight hasn't dropped, I haven't gone backwards in terms of my main goals which is to build more muscle and strength.

Anyway, at the root of all this, and on Aqua's thread, it's been about goals. That's the whole reason I got into this debate. There was a time when people here seemed a lot more supportive. I mean remember when you cut down to 150 for that contest? Did I ever insult you? I just wanted to see you kick ass at it and when you were done, get your weight back up to 180~ since you kept bitching about feeling small. The point is, they were your goals at the time. It sucks that the place has devolved into a flamefest where hardly anyone seems to give a **** for the other person's goals.

I never cared about my weight, just the fact that I lost so much LBM.

The point is most guys here talk a big game about how it's their master plan to be a fat f*ck because "someday" they'll cut down to reveal the chiseled slabs of muscle underneath.

F*cking perma-bulkers.

[MassIsAhead]

Same to you about cutting.

Happening as we (or rather you, to someone else) talk. I like cutting I don't have a big appetite naturally, and since I don't intend to hit contest shape or similar the mass and strength losses won't be so bad, and what I'll lose will rebound when I clean bulk again. Oh and btw I 've cut before and ejoyed that too

Btw, can I convince you to start a journal? I'd consider following your routine and diet, since you've got something to show for it!!!! Can I PM you about training advice and stuff? Maybe convince you to author a few articles about this stuff. Cause I just can't grasp it

[dbcb314]

Just remember carrying some excess fat is not equivalent to the socially accept definition of "fat" people associate with. It's a misleading term that gets misused a lot.

dude... what DO you consider fat????


enlighten me please so that I may not confuse the two any longer.....



oh and... I am the only black guy in this thread.... this place is racist

[AU stu.]

In case you miss the point: getting "fat" is "part of the plan", what's always up to debate is HOW fat, and funnily enough we learn by doing. Nice how that works.

Maybe you should read this: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

[MassIsAhead]

Maybe you should read this: http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

No, maybe you should read my post: "I intend to clean bulk on fewer calories".

[dbcb314]

I never cared about my weight, just the fact that I lost so much LBM.

The point is most guys here talk a big game about how it's their master plan to be a fat f*ck because "someday" they'll cut down to reveal the chiseled slabs of muscle underneath.

F*cking perma-bulkers.

Everyone acts as if it is soooooooooooooooooooooooo easy to cut down (as a natty).

All the fat just melts right away as soon as you stop eating junk!!!

and it leaves all that lean mass you made during the 8 year perma bulk!!!



ni gga please....

[The Real Deal]

I don't have a big appetite naturally, and since I don't intend to hit contest shape or similar the mass and strength losses won't be so bad,

IE. Hit what you think is 15% and quit when it gets too hard.

I gues you have it all planned out.