I'm starting to break up my workout routine into 2 sessions, morning around 10-11am and night around 6:30/7pm.
Usually I save the bigger muscle group for the morning, and a smaller muscle group for the evening.
I want to start doing IF, perhaps with the 16:8 split. I'm just curious if I should switch the lesser intense workout to the morning when I'm fasting still? (planning on going till 4-12pm for the eating window)
And also, just for clarification, there's absolutely no issue with working out and not having post-workout protein/carbs, which would be the case for my morning workout?
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09-11-2019, 05:59 PM #1
- Join Date: May 2004
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Intermittent Fasting with 2 a days?
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09-11-2019, 06:06 PM #2
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09-11-2019, 08:22 PM #3
I train fasted twice a week, at the end of my 16hr fast.. when HGH is at it's peak.
This is usually Calisthenics.... and yes i do run out of steam a little faster, but not much.
I always do cardio (swimming and trail running) fasted with zero difference in energy levels.
I always do my heavy weight training in a fed state however.
Thomas DeLauer on Youtube talks a lot about fasted training and IF.▪█───────█▪
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09-11-2019, 08:30 PM #4
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09-11-2019, 08:34 PM #5
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09-11-2019, 09:16 PM #6
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09-11-2019, 11:16 PM #7
IF reduces mTOR signaling, 24 hour MPS and testosterone levels.
If your trying to gain muscle do the opposite of IF.Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
Alan Aragon https://alanaragon.com/
Brad Schoenfeld http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/
James Krieger https://weightology.net/
Jorn Trommelen http://www.nutritiontactics.com/
Eric Helms & Team3DMJ https://3dmusclejourney.com/
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09-12-2019, 12:43 AM #8
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09-12-2019, 01:01 AM #9
Quite easy nearly every non-youtube guru who compete. Most if not all semi or pro bodybuilders will not use IF as they actually want to ensure MPS is at optimal level by consume protein on regular period. Generally they will not IF on a bulk and a cut for this reason.
IF is just a eating schedule nothing else and only really any use during a cut unless you are renowned for overeat calories over a 24hr period and have limited self control around feeding times.
OP it is down to personal preference if you feel fine training in the morning fasted heavy then carry on and just end your fast within a few hours of it to ensure protein is supplied during high MPS from the weight training.
If you are trying to building muscle IF is not optimal, as regular feed times of protein are best for MPS, as for cutting fat loss is dictated by calories so this may be useful in limiting eat times in order to stay with your caloric limit. That said you could simply consume a protein sources in the morning e.g. chicken salad, protein shake, tuna, fish etc which is low in calories and still have the vast allocation of calories to consume during your eating window (for convenience).
This would near enough ensure optimal MPS throughout a waking day.
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09-12-2019, 01:46 AM #10
I've been training fasted regularly for a few years. Subjectively I was always feeling that I was doing it hard and had decent energy and a certain wildness to my workouts. But I made no progress with the weights. Same long hard, intense workout from week to week, hardly was able to get any stronger.
“Fight one more round. When your feet are so tired that you have to shuffle back to the centre of the ring, fight one more round. When your arms are so tired that you can hardly lift your hands to come on guard, fight one more round. When your nose is bleeding and your eyes are black and you are so tired you wish your opponent would crack you one on the jaw and put you to sleep, fight one more round – remembering that the man who always fights one more round is never whipped.”
― James Corbett
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09-12-2019, 08:35 AM #11
Oh lord if only acute boosts in test and/or HGH actually meant something. Over the counter supps might actually work (jk probably not).
Anyways, its really up to you OP. Some people can train fasted and feel way better, others perform significantly better with a pre game meal. The better question might be, why split up the workout? Only people who might benefit from 2 a days would be pro athletes who literally live to train and recover. Unless you're that strapped for time I can't see a benefit.
The last thing this forum needs is another Thomas Delaur zealot so take the chit to the misc.Bench: 365
Squat: 495
Deadlift: 535
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09-12-2019, 08:59 AM #12
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09-12-2019, 10:36 AM #13
Hahahhaha! Good thread.
I don't even know who Thomas Deflower is. Will check out his theories.
Two a days? Forget IF and conforming to that. Eat plenty and nail PRs. Simple. Go by what your body is telling you AND showing you.
People tend to overcomplicate things. This is not trying to determine the number of cytotoxic payload classes with different modes of action which have been successfully employed in Antibody Drug Conjugates (ADC). This is freaking lifting weights. Lift, eat, rest, repeat. That's it. The key is consistency.Last edited by 1MANU; 09-12-2019 at 12:10 PM.
Curing Disease.
Strong mind+Strong body = UNSTOPPABLE.
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09-12-2019, 01:30 PM #14
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09-12-2019, 03:37 PM #15
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09-12-2019, 04:14 PM #16
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09-12-2019, 11:58 PM #17
- Join Date: Jan 2007
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There is no such thing as starvation mode... not that has ever been documented and identified.
If your body releases the right amount of insulin to deal with whatever carb you consume, why does it matter whether it's steady or not?
https://weightology.net/insulin-an-u...ad-reputation/
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09-13-2019, 06:45 AM #18
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09-13-2019, 06:57 AM #19
I did IF for about 6-7 months, working out 4x a week (heavy lifting). I mostly did OMAD (one meal a day). As Another said, why do you want to do IF? You can AMA me on the subject.
I lost 60 pounds in 4 months. 25 the first month, pairing keto with IF and doing OMAD. The first month I did ZERO training. The next 4 I trained in the gym. I still had strength gains while only eating about 1000 calories a day. I cut my calories hard to lose the weight faster. I'm not sure if my strength gains were bias though, since years ago (13+) I used to live in the gym in High School (wish I had my knowledge of muscle building now as I did then).
Starting in roughly July, I tried to IF and "gain muscle" due to Thomas D and others saying the increase in HGH/testosterone (I didn't learn until later the minimal amounts it increases). I was eating in a caloric surplus and still doing about 20/4 IF schedule. I was also (still am) taking HMB and other supps to maximize MPS.
Let's just say in the last 1.5 months of going off IF (I even started to do alternating day fasts) my gains in the gym are much better. I now eat meals all day, (I'm about to make a post in this thread, too) and workout not-fasted.
Fasted cardio is the best for fat loss, and I'll do IF in the future again for life. It's great to stay lean and preserve muscle (short fasts), great for body maintenance to do a couple 2-3 day fasts a year, but for muscle growth it's ****.
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09-13-2019, 07:14 AM #20Fasted cardio is the best for fat loss, and I'll do IF in the future again for life. It's great to stay lean and preserve muscle (short fasts), great for body maintenance to do a couple 2-3 day fasts a year, but for muscle growth it's ****.
Likewise fasts do nothing special to keep you lean beyond there ability to maintain you in a caloric maintenence. The health benefits are very much overstated and not fully proven especially in humans.
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09-13-2019, 07:16 AM #21
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09-13-2019, 07:54 AM #22
You mean, assure* me?
Plenty of benefits are proven from it, and a Japanese cell biologist won the NPP from auto****y.
Sorry, but you're wrong here. Fasted cardio will help you burn more fat. Hell, here's an article from this site (and you can look up the research yourself): Well I can't post a link, but you're wrong. Fasted cardio in the AM is proven to help fat loss more.
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09-13-2019, 09:11 AM #23
Enjoy reading and come back afterwards and explain why my claim is wrong:-
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4242477/ - No difference found
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411835 - Actually higher in fed participants due to higher performance ability as Adam suggested
https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5142/2/4/43/htm - Trivial to no effect on body composition
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25554797 - Same fat loss occurred throughout the day when compared fasted vs fed.
https://muscleevo.net/fasted-cardio/ - Pretty good summary about it.
I would advise you read some scientific research and focus on the detail instead of just taking every bodybuilding claim on the internet as truth. As the scientific community doesn't back fasted training as a tool for extra fat loss, as long as calories are matched throughout the day the same fat loss will occur.
Total daily calories dictate fat loss not the state of fastness in the individual in question.Last edited by hardyboysare; 09-13-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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09-13-2019, 09:57 AM #24
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09-13-2019, 10:22 AM #25
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I would also note that the NPP he mentioned on auto****y has zero to do with any 'benefits' from short-term fasting for the purpose of losing bodyfat or athletic performance
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5240711/
"To be sure, there are many questions yet to be answered about the basic mechanisms of auto****y (and other auto****y gene-dependent processes), its roles in disease, and its potential as a pathway for drug targeting.""When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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09-13-2019, 10:28 AM #26
More on auto****y:
The dark side of auto****y
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25257169
Auto****y and Its Effects: Making Sense of Double-Edged Swords
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.1001967
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09-13-2019, 11:23 AM #27
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