360 LB York Tall Letter Set surfaces with possible pre-shipwheel collars

[Northernmoris]

2018 seems to be a great start between this and Eric's DD's and PB. The paint job is amazing and sets them apart.

What is the distance between the inner collars?

Is it possible to get pic of screws on the outer collar ? I am guessing the set screws are on top of each other on the inner collars

Guessing the ends are held by set screws as well and the ends of the bar are grooved?

Wonder what was the original coating on the shaft and the sleeves?

Sorry too many ?'s but this is real deal next to only Northern Morris find in CT few years ago.

Edit: No knurl marks on the bar?

Thank you.. let's not forget about Genes pair as well. I left over a dozen Strength and Health with Str8out. Most of the pictures we found were in some 1939 issues I believe but no mention of the set just pictures. The thumb screws are identical to the ones used on aristocrat dumbbells obviously shorter.

I'd have to say at this time that set is the most complete documented public set. I've never seen or heard of anyone else having those collars.

[AttyGuy]

There's been speculation that red was a factory color for old York Oly sets. RockCRSHR's set from the firehouse was red, wasn't it?

[Northernmoris]

A collar closeup.

[STR8OUT]

Thanks again for the Mags Mike! I just ordered a complete 1936 Strength and Health magazine set (12 issues) from Ebay today. Hoping to find more. Would love if people have the mags even earlier than this

[Northernmoris]

Thanks again for the Mags Mike! I just ordered a complete 1936 Strength and Health magazine set (12 issues) from Ebay today. Hoping to find more. Would love if people have the mags even earlier than this

That's where it gets tough to find. '34 and '35.

[dexter000]

Thanks again for the Mags Mike! I just ordered a complete 1936 Strength and Health magazine set (12 issues) from Ebay today. Hoping to find more. Would love if people have the mags even earlier than this

Brian, I have seen photos of tall letter plates in issues of S&H prior to 1936, but it was (I believe) the January 1936 issue where hexagonal collars might have first appeared. Below is the cover of the February 1936 issue.



In the September 1936 issue, the ad for Olympic plates changed. This is when they began to show ship wheels in the ad. (Note I do not have the August 1936 issue, so I suppose the change could have occurred in August 1936.) See below how the ship wheels were described to be "foolproof".



Your collars are definitely old, but it's hard to tell whether they came BEFORE the shipwheels. It could be that they were available at the same time, but the ship wheels were considered the higher end option. Think about it, why did Hoffman copy the plates from Berg but waited a few years to copy the ship wheels?

I think you might have seen these collars of mine. I am fairly certain that were part of the original "Deluxe" (i.e., cheaper than the "International") 6-foot bar set.





Below is a photo from the December 1935 issue. Notice the width of the inside collars.

[dexter000]

That's where it gets tough to find. '34 and '35.

NM, are you out of retirement? It's about time you and Gene pop your head up.

[chadsalt]

Am I the only one who can't get the math to come out right at 360? That's a lot of change plates and it's a small pic on the phone....and I'm not that smart.

[CliveWarren]

Yeah. I think it's more like 390lbs.

I think I see 4 pairs of 10, three pairs of 5, and two pairs or 2.5. The collars might be and added 12lbs or so...

[AttyGuy]

1 Bar = 45 lbs
2x45 = 90 lbs
2x35 = 70 lbs
2x25 = 50 lbs
6x10 = 60 lbs
6x5 = 30 lbs
2x2.5= 5 lbs
collars= 10 lbs
Total = 360 lbs

[STR8OUT]

Brian, I have seen photos of tall letter plates in issues of S&H prior to 1936, but it was (I believe) the January 1936 issue where hexagonal collars might have first appeared. Below is the cover of the February 1936 issue.



In the September 1936 issue, the ad for Olympic plates changed. This is when they began to show ship wheels in the ad. (Note I do not have the August 1936 issue, so I suppose the change could have occurred in August 1936.) See below how the ship wheels were described to be "foolproof".



Your collars are definitely old, but it's hard to tell whether they came BEFORE the shipwheels. It could be that they were available at the same time, but the ship wheels were considered the higher end option. Think about it, why did Hoffman copy the plates from Berg but waited a few years to copy the ship wheels?

I think you might have seen these collars of mine. I am fairly certain that were part of the original "Deluxe" (i.e., cheaper than the "International") 6-foot bar set.





Below is a photo from the December 1935 issue. Notice the width of the inside collars.

Hi Al, I really appreciate your reply and research. It makes this a lot more fun to try and figure out when and where...

I have seen this photo and I'm almost certain they are my collars on that bar. Really look close and you will see it looks like a thumb screw instead of a wingnut. Also there is a really small space between the 2.5lb plate and the collar "star". Look at my collars there is a protruded ring which makes a space between the "star" of my collars and what would touch the plates. If you look even closer you can see that that the "star" spinlock is extended because the threads are out about 1/2 inch which is what makes it look like the inside width of the collars is wider than it is. Matt Levan sent me a really zoomed in photo of this today which is how we determined that.

I have not seen those collars of yours before but they are freaking sweet!!! Do you have any other pictures which show these?

You can see the what I mean in this pic that the skinnier threads are attached to the star

[STR8OUT]

Of course I could be totally wrong as well LOL

[RockCrshr]

It's fun seeing others go thru the same work I did years ago, with all the same photos. I had to prove some of the experts wrong so I did my homework. Look at the holes on the sleeve of the bar in the photo on the 1936 Feb cover, that dates that bar, which helps dates the collars. If I remember correctly the first ad for sets didn't come out for a while in the early S and H mags. This photo on the cover is most likely from 1935 or 1934 or even earlier. Also if you look at that photo take notice to the letters YORK are clearly written in upside down. I think these collars are some of the first with York because there is no brand name on them, as York progressed they put their name on the shipwheels.

[STR8OUT]

For the sake of our history and my boredom (wife has been in FL since Thursday) I ran down for a comparison shoot:

[StuZander]

Im glad she got what she did for those. Her grandfather was looking out for her that night.

[STR8OUT]

It's fun seeing others go thru the same work I did years ago, with all the same photos. I had to prove some of the experts wrong so I did my homework. Look at the holes on the sleeve of the bar in the photo on the 1936 Feb cover, that dates that bar, which helps dates the collars. If I remember correctly the first ad for sets didn't come out for a while in the early S and H mags. This photo on the cover is most likely from 1935 or 1934 or even earlier. Also if you look at that photo take notice to the letters YORK are clearly written in upside down. I think these collars are some of the first with York because their is no brand name on them, as York progressed they put their name on the shipwheels.

EDIT: I was just advised you are MATT LOL!!! Sorry Matt. Didnt know your screen name

Matt noticed the same thing about the upside-down writing. He believes this was a sketched up advertisement as there was never pictures of actual Yorks cast that way. Notice the collars are perfectly square-edged but mine have a star-like pattern (sketch versus real cast)

I am not certain but I would like to believe that my collars are pre-shipwheel as well

[dexter000]

EDIT: I was just advised you are MATT LOL!!! Sorry Matt. Didnt know your screen name

Matt noticed the same thing about the upside-down writing. He believes this was a sketched up advertisement as there was never pictures of actual Yorks cast that way. Notice the collars are perfectly square-edged but mine have a star-like pattern (sketch versus real cast)

I am not certain but I would like to believe that my collars are pre-shipwheel as well

Wouldn't it funny if some collector shows photos of those plates with "York" written on the bottom in their basement?!

This is from the November 1935 issue.



This photo below from the June 1934 issue adds to the mystery of what collars were available in the early '30s.

[Northernmoris]

NM, are you out of retirement? It's about time you and Gene pop your head up.

Hey Bud. Sorry I haven't reached out. I'm lurking. Check eBay time to time but haven't invested any real time in the hardcore searches. Plus my wife is happy atm. I'll be in touch, hopefully I'll make my way over to you guys this summer.

[C123C]

This is so cool.

STR8OUT - classy dealing with the seller. Solid character and karma accrual right there. Respect.

[STR8OUT]

Thats awesome Al! That's definitely these unmarked star collars! Seems there is a lot of pictures of them out there but no one else has found them? Like me, if people found these collars they wouldnt even realize they went with the York unless they do some research. Really awesome stuff

[AttyGuy]

I had to prove some of the so-called experts wrong so I did my homework.

They weren't experts, but you truly are an expert. Good seeing you on bb.com again.