HBO's Game of Thrones - Open Discussion - Final Season VIII

[BetaAsPhuck]

Yeah... no they didn't.

Survival horror is garbage when they constantly show you there are no stakes and people aren't going to die no matter how dire the situtation.. over.. and over.. and over again.

Exactly.

It's not that I wanted to see main characters die, it's that the narrative and directing was leading people to that.

The Dothraki being taken out showed how dangerous the dead horde was, but then lead characters are swatting them away like flies single handedly, or suriviving after being covered by them like they were a swarm of bees. Completely took away the dread that they had built up.

I loved the Arya library scene, Maisie's acting and the director made them seem like a serious threats to me, but then they cut to Sam laying on the ground stabbing the dead whilst being surrounded... completely inconsistent.

Like I said... I did really enjoy the episode, but it I had to ignore the inconsistencies.

(In The Walking Dead, some people complain that they kill of major characters for ratings, but IMO it helps to maintain that there are big stakes. It reminds us that it is a surivival horror, and stops us the audience from being complacent. It's not simply a drama, set in a Zombie Apocalypse.)

[BetaAsPhuck]

- it was shown clearly in the show that she spent most of the time doing mundane things like mopping and cleaning bodies. She was becoming increasingly frustrated and angry with Jaquen and asking when would she get to actual training. That was her hazing period, to show she had the patience and commitment to the cause. The next step was BASIC training with the waif who would get her prepared to undergo an initiation mission. The completion of the initiation would mean she would have shed her former identity, accept that she was indeed no one and was ready to BEGIN formal training as a faceless man. Of course, Arya couldnt bring herself to do this, botched the mission to kill the actress and was hunted by the waif who mopped the floor with her yet again but somehow lost....cuz plot armor. Arya then returns to Jaquen and said she was never no one. She's Arya Stark of Winterfell. And she leaves. She was never a faceless man and never even passed her initiation mission.

She kills the waif whilst injured, using needle, using her ability to fight in the dark.

Based on her ability to fight blind, that she had learned through her training.

Fighting blind (literally lifting up her leg to avoid being hit) shows how advanced she was in skill.

She doesn't need to complete her training to be dangerous. She can kill someone in pitch black, and fight blind!

- The duel with Brienne was also plot armor because Arya displays an extreme sudden jump in skill when she returns to Winterfell. There was no sword training since her days with Syrio. Practicing with sticks for 2 years is in no way comparable to Brienne having formal training her entire life. Arya only completed the tutorial level of being an ASSASSIN and not a warrior. Brienne completed advanced warrior training long before Arya was even born. If no plot armor existed, tell me who would have won that fight?

You're misremebering the scene.

Brienne starts and 'takes it easy' on Arya, who clearly surprises her with her skill when she taps her sword on the side of her armour.

Brienne literally has a look of shock on her face, and then she gets serious.

After that she literally beats Arya, knocking her down and she could have easily stepped in an stabbed her in the stomach if she wanted to, if it was a real fight... But she let her up.

After that they draw.

Here is the scene if you want to rewatch it, to see if I'm lying...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4US9QGU2yQI


In the fight Arya clearly shows that she has synthesized her sword training Syrio, and the fight training she did with the waif.

She did some sword to sword exchanges, but the majority of time she used her evasive technique that she mastered when she had to fight blind.

Here is her training with the waif, so you can see the foundation along with Syrio's training, that built the way she fought in the sparring session with Brienne...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYWdklp3lVE


She used to practice Syrio's sword form in her spare time to the amusement of The Hound, she used to practice archery alone as a child, she has clearly shown discipline when it comes to solo training, and a natural aptitude from a young age for fighting.

She also travelled alone from Braavos to Winterfell as a young woman, so it's no doubt she had to use and develop her awareness and evasive skills to avoid trouble.

Her sneaking up on Jon was a subtle hint that she had developed herself.

She remembered the principles that Syrio taught her...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upcWBut9mrI


And (to repeat) she taught herself archery as a child which clearly shows a natural aptitude...

There's nothing inconsistent about Arya's progression IMO. Her sparring session was I believe was supposed to be a shock to the character's and the audience, as we realized how much she has learned from her early days, and in her journey.

[LeJR]

You're rustled - the simple solution is not to parrot the 'lol Arya went from mopper and corpse cleaner to ultra killer in 1 week lmao' simply because you're upset that Jon didn't kill the NK in a 1v1. On the rest of your post:

You have selective memory. In between killing the waif and starting her actual training she was required, repeatedly, to try to predict her opponent's attacks while blind. Did you forget all this? Nowhere in the show do they make this out to be 'brief'. She goes from being unable to do anything while blind to being able to parry and return shots against the waif on the platform. This is what is known as 'skill progression' - but feel free to keep crying that this 'happened too fast'.

So you call all this 'plot armor' while at the same time raging in hyperbole - she does not 'mow down zombies like a DBZ character' - did you not notice that the weapon she asked Gendry to make resembled the staff she was using in her training? Oh wait, she didn't train with the staff enough so, how could she score points on the waif while blind? She hit her head and was basically running/hiding until she met Melisandre again. The fact is, your comment that it was 'too quick' is nonsensical. You just haven't been paying attention.

In the Godswood - in a previous scene this very season do you not remember Arya sneaking up on Jon, and him asking how she did that? Did you start sputtering there "omg she's just a little kid who mopped floors" (your previous post, contradicting your self-proclaimed expertise here) and 'how could she possibly sneak up on JS' considering...there was no battle at all back then, no other noise, no yelling and dying, no dragon roaring...etc. And she could have easily assassinated JS. Yet again...all of Arya's expertise have been clearly explained in the show - from catching cats, to training with Forel, to becoming very comfortable killing people with the Hound, to her striking/movement prediction with the Faceless Men, and yet somehow people are negatively surprised by Arya landing the killing blow. I mean...wow.

Either way the Directors did their job right - much like any good show (Sopranos is a great example) looks like people will be talking/complaining about the ending for years to come.

Can't wait for her teleporting backstabs on Cersei and Euron.

Oh yeah, Hawkeye shoots thanos in the back and kills him before the avengers get to fight him. Movie doesn't end cause the avengers still need to kill the green goblin.

[kingmanaverage]

Kind of funny that at the beginning of all of this, people were like "OMG only 6 episodes!! That's not enough!!"

Now we see that after 3 the Battle of Winterfell took place... we still have 3 whole episodes of 72+ minutes. There is still so much story left to tell, because the name of this show is "GAME OF THRONES" not some battle of the white walkers.

If you don't like the WW then fair enough. My disappointment with the ending of the last episode comes from the fact that for the last 8 seasons the night king has been getting hyped as a master villain, and an unstoppable force of evil, only for him to be defeated in a single episode.

It's also worth noting that for the last two seasons much of the politics has been put on the back burner with an emphasis on how if they don't win the war beyond the wall then nothing else is going to matter anyway.

There's so much storyline regarding the night king, and white walkers which they've left unanswered too, and probably never will be answered.

It just feels like they've written themselves into a corner now imo.

[NasStan]

I wonder why the writers have so many cool hidden features instead of just directly including them for the viewer, especially given they are major contributions to the plot. Seems like the writers are just winging it to shorten the plot given the limited episodes remaining.
Ex: Melisandre said blue eyes 5 seasons ago so that was totally a prophecy for Arya killing the NK

Everyone raised by the NK has blue eyes - and going by there post episode featurette it was only decided recently that she would be the one to kill the NK because having Jon do it "didn't feel right"

Good thing I don't care about Star Wars because these guys are being given a whole trilogy I think

[iifymbro]

Same. And they dark shades kept moving around like a cloud.

Yeah that was the chitty compression. HBO dun goofed with combining a dark night battle with their chit compression, one or the other would've been fine.

Everyone raised by the NK has blue eyes - and going by there post episode featurette it was only decided recently that she would be the one to kill the NK because having Jon do it "didn't feel right"

Good thing I don't care about Star Wars because these guys are being given a whole trilogy I think

The writers said after the episode that they've known it was Arya for 3 years, not exactly what I'd call "recent".

[stevedarsh]

who do you think will win out of them 2?

I was thinking, theres actually enough episodes that Cersei could win the battle and seriously equalize the whole situation and capture them. Maybe the baristas work against the dragons wounding them and some other tricks of hers work and they get the heroes on the back foot somehow, before they overcome in a dramatic finale with the help of Bron.

What if part of that Cersei push back the mountain wins.

what kind of baristas have you been interacting with?

[stevedarsh]

Everyone raised by the NK has blue eyes - and going by there post episode featurette it was only decided recently that she would be the one to kill the NK because having Jon do it "didn't feel right"

Good thing I don't care about Star Wars because these guys are being given a whole trilogy I think

The amazing thing is that this episode came out POST Last Jedi and POST Solo! They had to chance to look at the effect on a fanbase of subversion for subversion's sake while ignoring narrative impact. They had to chance with Solo to see that bad decisions like that can bring a decades old, multi-billion dollar franchise cartwheeling to the dirt in flames. And they did it anyway!

[stevedarsh]

Seems like this show has turned into Game of Suberversions. They have attempted to make the show feel more real and unpredictable by subverting expectations so often that every time it's done it comes off as contrived. This show is gonna have even lower rewatchability if the night king was really killed by Arya. No one is gonna watch that episode to see the night king get killed by her after having spent 8 seasons building up this terrifying monster.

I don't think anyone is saying that Arya doesn't have the skillset. Her killing the Night King had a total Deus Ex Machina feel to it. The major hints that people are mentioning were only introduced in the same episode. The main one being Berric dying saving her. The whole Jon/Night King(and White Walkers) was hinted at so often throughout the seasons that, for many(myself included), the ending felt like a cheap sleight of hand.

Arya doesn't have the skillset

[300BLK]

Exactly.

It's not that I wanted to see main characters die, it's that the narrative and directing was leading people to that.

The Dothraki being taken out showed how dangerous the dead horde was, but then lead characters are swatting them away like flies single handedly, or suriviving after being covered by them like they were a swarm of bees. Completely took away the dread that they had built up.

I loved the Arya library scene, Maisie's acting and the director made them seem like a serious threats to me, but then they cut to Sam laying on the ground stabbing the dead whilst being surrounded... completely inconsistent.

Like I said... I did really enjoy the episode, but it I had to ignore the inconsistencies.

(In The Walking Dead, some people complain that they kill of major characters for ratings, but IMO it helps to maintain that there are big stakes. It reminds us that it is a surivival horror, and stops us the audience from being complacent. It's not simply a drama, set in a Zombie Apocalypse.)

I think this was the lamest part about the whole episode. Really made the show feel overly heroic and not realistic like shown previously. I know GOT is built on randomness and shock deaths, but that battle did not look realistic from that point on. There should have been way more deaths than that among the main cast at least, and everyone secretly knows it.

[stevedarsh]

idk m8











































The moment when her people need her, when it could've been the last day for all Starks and Northeners, she hid, not one word of leadership or encouragement.

There was a scene where Sansa and Tyrion are hiding out while the wights break out in the crypt, and Sansa draws a knife. Apparently they filmed the two of them taking out a couple wights, but inexplicably cut it. Without the scene, it just seems like Sansa is about to kill herself.

[NasStan]

Yeah that was the chitty compression. HBO dun goofed with combining a dark night battle with their chit compression, one or the other would've been fine.





The writers said after the episode that they've known it was Arya for 3 years, not exactly what I'd call "recent".

You realise that's like a season right due to the year break? And even then I just don't believe that.

[ANumber1]

I think this was the lamest part about the whole episode. Really made the show feel overly heroic and not realistic like shown previously. I know GOT is built on randomness and shock deaths, but that battle did not look realistic from that point on. There should have been way more deaths than that among the main cast at least, and everyone secretly knows it.

It wasn't even a shock death.

Name one Dothraki.

This is an autism test. If you've been following so close that any Dothraki character who is still alive was worth remembering, you're autistic.

There was no shock death here. They Leroy Jenkins an entire race of people to justify snuffing out some torches, while the dragons - the heaviest shock units available, if a shock attack would matter to the undead - hung back and LOLed. Ridiculous.

[300BLK]

It wasn't even a shock death.

Name one Dothraki.

This is an autism test. If you've been following so close that any Dothraki character who is still alive was worth remembering, you're autistic.

There was no shock death here. They Leroy Jenkins an entire race of people to justify snuffing out some torches, while the dragons - the heaviest shock units available, if a shock attack would matter to the undead - hung back and LOLed. Ridiculous.

I didn't mean the Dothraki (which was a stupid strategy in itself), but the fact that all the main characters were being swarmed left and right and not a single death was seen, like they were almost invincible because of plot armor. GOT never had such heroic writing, which was something I think turned people off the most. Arya coming to save the day was part of the "randomness" of GOT, but with addition to the plot armor, it didn't feel random, it just felt unrealistically heroic on all parts.

[MrPappageorgio]

The main storyline of GoT is NOT the Night King and the dead vs. the living - it's the battle for the Iron Throne. Danny wasn't struggling for 8 seasons to kill the Night King, she was trying to win back the throne. The Night King and the dead had to die in this episode to set up the culmination of the actual main struggle. And many main characters need to be involved in that finale to make it interesting.

Jaime has to face his sister. So does Tyrian. The Hound needs to face his zombie brother. We also need a few characters left to fight for Danny and still be able to die - Brienne, Giantsbane…

For those of you who wanted all these people to die and for the Night King to keep going until the last episode - you don't understand the whole point of this entire story. The Night King and the dead were a sub-plot, the Iron Throne is the main source of conflict, and the interpersonal relationships between those central to that conflict are way more interesting than the living vs. the dead...

[Jaydawg08]

The main storyline of GoT is NOT the Night King and the dead vs. the living - it's the battle for the Iron Throne. Danny wasn't struggling for 8 seasons to kill the Night King, she was trying to win back the throne. The Night King and the dead had to die in this episode to set up the culmination of the actual main struggle. And many main characters need to be involved in that finale to make it interesting.

Jaime has to face his sister. So does Tyrian. The Hound needs to face his zombie brother. We also need a few characters left to fight for Danny and still be able to die - Brienne, Giantsbane…

For those of you who wanted all these people to die and for the Night King to keep going until the last episode - you don't understand the whole point of this entire story. The Night King and the dead were a sub-plot, the Iron Throne is the main source of conflict, and the interpersonal relationships between those central to that conflict are way more interesting than the living vs. the dead...

Thank you. Someone that's actually been paying attention.

[ragingcrayon]

You fools have too much time on your hands.

A) Bronn will sit on iron tbrone
B) Cobra Kai is a superior show

[Mumra]

sub plot or not. 8 seasons of their threat building and it only lasted a few minutes is not great. I'm starting to think the NK never should have been in the show.

remember the very first scene in the very first episode was about a White Walker. it seemed to me that the way they were built up with what else had been going on the point was that all these struggles against fellow humans was silly and the real threat was the NK. how that everyone was dumb for not realizing this threat and petty for fighting over the throne because it ultimately didn't matter at all.

[DannStark]

The main storyline of GoT is NOT the Night King and the dead vs. the living - it's the battle for the Iron Throne. Danny wasn't struggling for 8 seasons to kill the Night King, she was trying to win back the throne. The Night King and the dead had to die in this episode to set up the culmination of the actual main struggle. And many main characters need to be involved in that finale to make it interesting.

Jaime has to face his sister. So does Tyrian. The Hound needs to face his zombie brother. We also need a few characters left to fight for Danny and still be able to die - Brienne, Giantsbane…

For those of you who wanted all these people to die and for the Night King to keep going until the last episode - you don't understand the whole point of this entire story. The Night King and the dead were a sub-plot, the Iron Throne is the main source of conflict, and the interpersonal relationships between those central to that conflict are way more interesting than the living vs. the dead...

I hope one day u aware yourself and realize the stupidity of this post

[Madevilz]

I still have hope that the Night King is not dead, and that there is more to it that we haven't seen.
Bran did say "Who says there is an afterwards?", hopefully that was some kind of foreshadowing. But with the kind of direction GoT is going with, that probably was meaningless. Cersei being the final boss would be a disappointment.

And what was he actually doing with all those crows during the battle?

[MrPappageorgio]

I hope one day u aware yourself and realize the stupidity of this post

That was a very lucid, well crafted rebuttal to my opinion

[Xinroth]

For you brahs that are in here defending The Long Night, I genuinely hope they do something good with this fight and the remaining episodes as a whole so you aren't subjected to the feelings of disappointment/resentment that so many of us are now experiencing @ this series

Legit wouldn't wish this on any GoT fan

Which is why I genuinely think that the Night King's death was not the 'end of it' as far as the dead goes.

Because if it is, the whole series (and im not a die hard fan, but I like it) is literally down the chitter story-wise.

[practicekid]

Man, watching episode 3 just remids me of my misery after finishing Mass Effect 3. Completely ruined the franchise for me. Here's hoping the rest of the episodes will deliver.......somehow.

[VladMass]

So the danger that threatens the entire world was a subplot to keep fighting for some poverty chair... what a twist

[juvefan]

Dont understand how so many people couldnt see chit during the episode. Maybe yall need to upgrade from your TCL and Vizio TVs and $200 samsungs cause it was fine for me. That first moment when it was pitch black and waiting for the wights to attack and then a huge wave comes out of nowhere was honestly fukin epic

[Kev1972]

The main storyline of GoT is NOT the Night King and the dead vs. the living - it's the battle for the Iron Throne. Danny wasn't struggling for 8 seasons to kill the Night King, she was trying to win back the throne. The Night King and the dead had to die in this episode to set up the culmination of the actual main struggle. And many main characters need to be involved in that finale to make it interesting.

Jaime has to face his sister. So does Tyrian. The Hound needs to face his zombie brother. We also need a few characters left to fight for Danny and still be able to die - Brienne, Giantsbane…

For those of you who wanted all these people to die and for the Night King to keep going until the last episode - you don't understand the whole point of this entire story. The Night King and the dead were a sub-plot, the Iron Throne is the main source of conflict, and the interpersonal relationships between those central to that conflict are way more interesting than the living vs. the dead...

It's literally called "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Daenerys is not the main character of the story.

Tyrion has 49 POV chapters
Jon has 42
Arya has 34
Dany has 31

Daenerys has a bit part compared to the Starks and the Lannisters. The story centers around the petty kings squabbles early on but the true threat has always been the great other beyond the wall. That's why so much of the story focused on the fight beyond the wall. To retcon it at the end and say it's always been about Daenerys is just wrong.

[mandarino]

The main storyline of GoT is NOT the Night King and the dead vs. the living - it's the battle for the Iron Throne. Danny wasn't struggling for 8 seasons to kill the Night King, she was trying to win back the throne. The Night King and the dead had to die in this episode to set up the culmination of the actual main struggle. And many main characters need to be involved in that finale to make it interesting.

Jaime has to face his sister. So does Tyrian. The Hound needs to face his zombie brother. We also need a few characters left to fight for Danny and still be able to die - Brienne, Giantsbane…

For those of you who wanted all these people to die and for the Night King to keep going until the last episode - you don't understand the whole point of this entire story. The Night King and the dead were a sub-plot, the Iron Throne is the main source of conflict, and the interpersonal relationships between those central to that conflict are way more interesting than the living vs. the dead...

Lmao Jesus Christ. Cmon man. Episode one season one.

Ok. I actually agree that an episode or two without ww is needed to see the end of the show.

But dude, did you not hear Danny saying how the wheel keeps turning and turning and every few years a new name is on top sitting on the throne. If the Night King is the equivalent of Mance or any other big guy with an army(which is what the show made him to be in the last ep), then what conclusion do you want to the show? A king queen will be there and then next year you can make a new show and call it Game of thrones part 2 lol.

It was always about the greater threat. That’s what all the religion in the show is about, season one episode one, dragons, everything.

The wheel literally keeps on spinning by your logic.

[iifymbro]

So the danger that threatens the entire world was a subplot to keep fighting for some poverty chair... what a twist

I mean it is called game of thrones, not game of zombie hordes.


I always saw it like yeah the fighting over the throne means jack chit when there's a army of dead and magical beings looking to wipe humans off the map, but the throne still exists and until everyone is dead, someone's gotta sit on it. But once that army is dealt with, the throne game is on like donkey kong.

[Destor]

Which is why I genuinely think that the Night King's death was not the 'end of it' as far as the dead goes.

Because if it is, the whole series (and im not a die hard fan, but I like it) is literally down the chitter story-wise.

If they managed to pull it back somehow and this was all a new dimension of intentional mindfukery for the audience, I would be blown away. But I'm definitely not counting on that

[Jaydawg08]

It's literally called "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Daenerys is not the main character of the story.

Tyrion has 49 POV chapters
Jon has 42
Arya has 34
Dany has 31

Daenerys has a bit part compared to the Starks and the Lannisters. The story centers around the petty kings squabbles early on but the true threat has always been the great other beyond the wall. That's why so much of the story focused on the fight beyond the wall. To retcon it at the end and say it's always been about Daenerys is just wrong.

"A Song of Ice and Fire" is about Jon Snow... Ice (Stark) Fire (Targaryen)