question about training my son (big kid) and diet.

[DieselBro]

My 14 year old son is a big kid and has the genetics to be huge (my father is 6'7" 250 ish, my wife's father was 6'3"... I am 6'4" and he has a wider wingspan than me) right now he is sitting at 6'2" 255

I started him on Starting Strength,( and do it with him). My thoughts with respect to diet, was to ensure adequate protein, and have him try not to gain any more weight or keep it within a few pounds of where he is.

Goals are primarily strength, for athletics, but still being able to move around.

We do some medicine ball work and skip rope at home, on the off days.

[Plateauplower]

In terms of health, I don't think that age should be on a " severely restricted" diet, at the same time he is obviously carrying a LOT of bodyfat and there are negative health implications for that. It might not be a bad idea to focus on healthy food choices, less processed calorie dense options. Maybe try to slowly lean him out a little without it being a "diet" per se....More teaching healthy eating habits.

[DieselBro]

We don't really keep a lot of junk around. He is more of a quantity eater lol... doesn't drink soda, either skim milk or water, occasional Arnold Palmer zero. ..

[Plateauplower]

We don't really keep a lot of junk around. He is more of a quantity eater lol... doesn't drink soda, either skim milk or water, occasional Arnold Palmer zero. ..

It doesn't have to be junk to be calorie dense. If the majority of his plate is fresh veg and lean protein, rather than starches it would likely be much lower calorie and still very healthy. I am a volume eater too, and thats what works for me. Bro science or not, glycemic index matters to me as well when trying to control my weight. If I eat starches, even "healthy" ones like rice or potatoes I get hungry pretty quickly. If I eat my carbs in the form of broc****, brussels sprouts, 35 calorie bread combined with a protein source and some fat to further blunt the insulin response it helps a lot. I pretty much get fat if I am not actively trying not to...Its kind of a PIA, but others struggle with eating enough to grow, so everyone has some obstacle to overcome in terms of bodybuilding...

Weird is Broc**** a bad word now?

Green tree top looking veg that looks like cauliflower but is green?

[DieselBro]

Gotcha.. we will try to set up something like that. Should be easier now that wife is on the fitness bandwagon. I just remember reading Rippetoe say that puberty is as powerful, if not more so than "gear" so I didn't want to underfeed him either and ruin his puberty gainz...

[Garage Rat]

Protein should be the more important marco in his diet.
Minimum one gram per pound and probably more.
You can manipulate carbs and fats but keep protein constant.
The only way to be more accurate is to record everything your eating/drinking in a diet journal with all macros and calories.
The sad part is most people won't do this as it's to much work but if your serious it will help out greatly.
Record everything you eat for seven days then add up all calories and macros then divide by seven to come out with your average daily intake.From there you can make adjustments if necessary.
If you want to keep weight down eliminate 200 calories from every days meal total.
That would be a 1400 calorie off of the weeks total.
Go easy on breads and dairy products.
I would also keep a training log to see exactly what your doing(sets,reps,weight,exercises)and how you progress.
Stay with basic strength movements.
Good luck.

[KyleAaron]

Do not train your son. Find a coach for him.

[weiss1967]

Do not train your son. Find a coach for him.

stole words from my mouth. This is a bit of a mystery, but true, find coach for your son, get him engaged in some performing sport. Kids need a bit more engagement and purpose for suffering through grueling training. MMA, Pankration, classic Greco-roman wrestling - stuff like that, taught by a good coach.

[DieselBro]

Do not train your son. Find a coach for him.

I don't train him per se.. we work out together. He plays other sports Football/Basketball but that season is winding down.

My wife revamped the meals because we can all stand to lose a few, went to Wegmans only shopped the perimeter of the store.

He will be now eating something like

Breakfast Plain oatmeal with blueberries and walnuts added, some cinnamon 3 links turkey sausage and a HB egg. Milk

Lunch PB sandwich on 6 grain bread, apple, 100 calorie snack (basically 2 oreos or nutter butters as he is still a kid) water

Snack apple with PB or some cheese and grapes

Dinner protein (last night we had Haddock) mixed veg small baked potatoe

Desert 1 scoop bryers ice cream.

I also got a food scale to portion stuff out.

[DieselBro]

I would also keep a training log to see exactly what your doing(sets,reps,weight,exercises)and how you progress.
Stay with basic strength movements.
Good luck.

We are doing Starting Strength

The boy's stats starting>now 3 sets of 5

Squat 45>105 Low bar squatting has been tough for him due to his long arms and shoulder mobility getting into position, this is more of a high bar squat even though Rippetoe recommends LBS. He is doing stretches to get more into the LBS position but isn't there yet.

Bench 95>135

Deadlift 95 (on platforms) > 185

Press 45>70

We also skip rope afterwards

Could barely do it > can skip for about 45-60 seconds without messing up.

Off days he is playing pick up basketball, or walking with me.

Throughout this process he has gained about 5 lbs, so he need to cut back calories.

[Plateauplower]

I don't train him per se.. we work out together. He plays other sports Football/Basketball but that season is winding down.

My wife revamped the meals because we can all stand to lose a few, went to Wegmans only shopped the perimeter of the store.

He will be now eating something like

Breakfast Plain oatmeal with blueberries and walnuts added, some cinnamon 3 links turkey sausage and a HB egg. Milk

Lunch PB sandwich on 6 grain bread, apple, 100 calorie snack (basically 2 oreos or nutter butters as he is still a kid) water

Snack apple with PB or some cheese and grapes

Dinner protein (last night we had Haddock) mixed veg small baked potatoe

Desert 1 scoop bryers ice cream.

I also got a food scale to portion stuff out.

Should take a good read at the macro sticky and use the food scale. I don't know what your sons body comp is and I'm not a doctor. I'm guessing he has a fair amount of weight to lose to be at a "healthy" bodyweight. If that kind of diet works for him that's great, but this are a lot of vary nutrient dense (I.e. High calorie) choices. Good fats are essential, but so is not being starving all day. Peanut butter is not very much food for the amount of cals. Walnuts are great but a big slab of salmon is better for omega 3. Avocados are great for a fat too since they have some bulk with the fiber and water content. Lean meats like chicken, beef, pork, along with fatty fish like salmon and eggs would be great protein sources. There dose not appear to be very much protein in that layout and the food choices look pretty calorie dense to me. Just saying I'd want to gnaw my arm off if I ate like that. Brussels sprouts roasted in a little olive oil with some seasonings are great filler food, along with fresh raw veg. GL might not be a bad idea to talk to his doc during sports physicals and see what their opinion is in terms of weight etc.

[Bo_Flecks]

question about training my son (big kid) and diet.

Do not train your son. Find a coach for him.

I don't train him per se..

Okay. I'm confused.

Almost as confused as when I read the OP and could not decide what the question was.

[pryme]

We are doing Starting Strength

The boy's stats starting>now 3 sets of 5

Squat 45>105 Low bar squatting has been tough for him due to his long arms and shoulder mobility getting into position, this is more of a high bar squat even though Rippetoe recommends LBS. He is doing stretches to get more into the LBS position but isn't there yet.

Bench 95>135

Deadlift 95 (on platforms) > 185

Press 45>70

We also skip rope afterwards

Could barely do it > can skip for about 45-60 seconds without messing up.

Off days he is playing pick up basketball, or walking with me.

Throughout this process he has gained about 5 lbs, so he need to cut back calories.

Wait, those are his current strength numbers? He needs to lose A LOT of weight. Not trying to sound all high and mighty but there are plenty of 14 year Olds less than half his weight who put up much bigger numbers than that.

You mentioned ice cream. Lose that it's junk. I'm sure for him to get to 255 at 14 he's eating plenty of junk.

[KyleAaron]

could not decide what the question was.

I couldn't figure out either. So I answered with "do not train your son."

You're teaching him how to lift, Diesel. You're deciding his programme, and when to add weight to the bar. This is what I do with my clients, and they call me their trainer. You're training him. Don't.

[billb7581]

I couldn't figure out either. So I answered with "do not train your son."

You're teaching him how to lift, Diesel. You're deciding his programme, and when to add weight to the bar. This is what I do with my clients, and they call me their trainer. You're training him. Don't.

LMAO.. he needs a trainer? Sounds like you're trying to pimp your occupation. It aint rocket science.

My main question was should he cut or just try to maintain and grow into his body.. you don't need a ****ing PHD to teach someone to bench press.

[billb7581]

there are plenty of 14 year Olds less than half his weight who put up much bigger numbers than that.

.

1 month into lifting? you're full of ****. He visited an elite Catholic HS this past fall, that was trying to recruit him, and a solid bench press for a freshman lineman, was 135. He is in 8th grade, and is doing that for sets of 5

[Plateauplower]

LMAO.. he needs a trainer? Sounds like you're trying to pimp your occupation. It aint rocket science.

My main question was should he cut or just try to maintain and grow into his body.. you don't need a ****ing PHD to teach someone to bench press.

I'm confused now too....are you some kind of weird third person white night who takes on the role of opie or Do you have two accounts here?

Multiple accounts is kind of no no I believe. I don't care, just saying makes the thread kind of hard to follow.

I work with a guy who's son will be a first round draft pick this year as an NFL lineman. He's a big kid too, but he was never fat in any of the pics I've seen of him from grade school on.

Do whatever you want, hopefully with your sons overall health in mind. Don't make posts if you don't want the answers though.

[KyleAaron]

LMAO.. he needs a trainer? Sounds like you're trying to pimp your occupation. It aint rocket science.

It's true that it's not rocket science. But it's also true that while the kid may or may not need a trainer, his father should NOT be that trainer, if anyone should.

My main question was should he cut or just try to maintain and grow into his body.. you don't need a ****ing PHD to teach someone to bench press.

But maybe you need more education to avoid revealing that you have multiple accounts on this site. "My" main question... DieselBro.

You get to have one account. The others will be banned. Which one would you like to keep?

[Plateauplower]

It's true that it's not rocket science. But it's also true that while the kid may or may not need a trainer, his father should NOT be that trainer, if anyone should.

I don't know probably depends on the situation. I look forward to training WITH my kids when they get older if they want to.

Worked out okay for the Lilliebridges

http://teamlilliebridge.com/about

[KyleAaron]

The fact is that if you want someone best in the world at something, you do actually have to start them doing it 3-4hr a day from 4-8 years old. And 10 years later they'll be awesome. But 4-8yo kids left to themselves won't spend 3-4hr a day on something, they have to be pushed. They'll often put up with it because it's a way to get mum or dad's approval and spend time with them, but it's ultimately not a good and healthy dynamic. And the fact is that most kids who are pushed that hard don't become outstanding anyway.

For every Serena Williams, Tiger Woods or Mozart, you get 10,000 bitter and twisted kids who hate their sport and their parents. I think it's just not worth the risk.

Our job as parents is not to make the kid a great sportsperson, musician or mathematician or whatever, it's to make them a decent human being. And then a good school will make them a decent and useful human being. Anything beyond that should be up to the kid. We just build the base of health and literacy and so on.

[Plateauplower]

The fact is that if you want someone best in the world at something, you do actually have to start them doing it 3-4hr a day from 4-8 years old. And 10 years later they'll be awesome. But 4-8yo kids left to themselves won't spend 3-4hr a day on something, they have to be pushed. They'll often put up with it because it's a way to get mum or dad's approval and spend time with them, but it's ultimately not a good and healthy dynamic. And the fact is that most kids who are pushed that hard don't become outstanding anyway.

For every Serena Williams, Tiger Woods or Mozart, you get 10,000 bitter and twisted kids who hate their sport and their parents. I think it's just not worth the risk.

Our job as parents is not to make the kid a great sportsperson, musician or mathematician or whatever, it's to make them a decent human being. And then a good school will make them a decent and useful human being. Anything beyond that should be up to the kid. We just build the base of health and literacy and so on.

I agree with that. That is why I posted I look forward to training WITH my kids when they get older. My kids will not be pushed to excel at sports. They will be good people and better apply themselves at something, preferably academics first, and extracurriculars second.

[KyleAaron]

I would also suggest that anyone who is not even smart enough to have multi-accounts without revealing it, is probably not smart enough to train anyone well. It ain't rocket science, but it's more than breaking rocks.

[Cudacke]

NBA Legend Charles Barkley is famous for liking to eat too much, being fat and need to lose weight to keep in shape in his playing day.
His official playing weight was 252 at 6'6.

Your son is shorter and fatter so...........

Since you do need to ask online community for advice instead being able to do research and learn your self,
I would say find good "coaches" is more likely a better way to go for your son and for you.

[congore]

14 years old is a good age to get a kid lifting. If you don't feel confident in your own abilities with the basic lifts (squat, bench, dead lift, OHP, cleans), then find someone who is knowledgeable to teach both of you. However, a decent coach/instructor can be hard to find. Most of the ones I've seen at commercial gyms or even high schools are terrible or limited at best. Books like Starting Strength (Mark Rippetoe), Olympic Weightlifting (Greg Everett), and websites can get you started. If you want to get deeper into the science, then you can look up theories by Verkhoshansky, Bompa, and Zatsiorsky (probably overkill).

Just get your kid lifting, eating right, and moving. Playing pickup basketball is good, so is getting him on the track to run sprints or throw the shotput (great for explosive power). Jump rope, hill sprints, biking, and swimming are also good activities and will help with speed and flexibility. I agree with teaching good eating 'habits' rather than strict dieting for a youth. I also think teaching your kids the basic lifts is a great bonding experience. When he has had enough, he will start lifting with his friends instead of you. But that's fine, as long as they learn to be healthy and active for life. Good luck.

[Gabbar99]

He should be going out for track when basketball ends.

My son was a good athlete in all sports and ended up being a D1 All American in the decathlon. I never trained him or told him to exercise. He just did it as part of sports. He had coaches and peers telling him what to do and keeping him accountable.

And he didn't have much internal drive to train to be honest and didn't do much in summers and breaks, even in college. But practicing and working out with teammates is what kept him in shape.

If not track, get in the football program. When my son was in school, the football players who didn't do spring sports worked out together and had a set schedule. Then there were summer programs.

It's possible that if he has goals to be in shape by the time summer football starts, he might have the discipline to work out on his own or with his dad to get there, but most kids would be more likely to stay with it if they have peers and coaches to be accountable to.