IF + carbs / pre workout questions

[emerica243]

Search doesn't seem to be working right now. Long story short, I went from 200lbs to 172lbs in 4 months from calorie restriction then macro counting while utilizing IF(eating 12pm to 8pm). I've been eating at 1700cals(170g carb, 170g pro, 30g fat) and for the last 3-4 weeks or so iv'e pretty much been steady around 171-174lbs without much more progress. I feel like a drop of about ~5 more pounds would put me in a good spot for being lean and starting a slow bulk which I cant wait for.(feel like i've been cutting for so long)

I pretty much stand at work all day in front of a computer. So my only exercise comes from the gym afterwards. My workouts consist of about 2 hours total. With about 1-1.5 of that from weight training. Hitting all your basic muscle groups hard from different angles.(Pr bench is 245lbx5times) I will also then do cardio anywhere from 20-60 minutes 3-4 days a week. This usually just entails any cardio machine trying to hit an estimated 300-400 calories burnt whether its walking an incline for an hour or high intensity cycling. Not too sure how accurate the machines are number wise.

My meals / nutrition for this time was basically 2 small meals during my work day, one at 12PM and 3PM. These 2 meals consisted of mainly high protein, moderate fat and low carb(chicken, tuna, eggs, small portion of either rice or sweet potato for some carbs). After work my 5PM preworkout meal would consist of high carb and moderate protein with minimal fat(Oats, rice, sweet potato, fruit, whey). My postworkout meal would then be very similar, high on protein and carb(oats, whole grains, sweet potato, 2% milk, whey, chicken or fish, etc). My last meal before bed would be mainly protein and fats(cottage cheese, greek yogurt).

As I mentioned prior, this all seemed to work very well, and i'm accustomed to that eating style. However I was curious on the whole insulin/glycogen/glucose experiment now to possible aid with continued progress of my goal. I've watched many videos and read many articles about IF + fasted training, glycogen depletion, etc but have some questions. Am I understanding correctly that there would be a benefit for my progress/body if I DO NOT consume carbs preworkout but only high protein to stay in a glycogen completed state from my all day fast? Therefore during my weight training, the body should be relying more so on the fat for fuel then the glycogen that doesn't exist? Then only AFTER my workout will i indulge on all the carbohydrate loaded meals for replenishment and being insulin sensitive?

If I AM understanding this correctly, I would have 2 concerns. I read the body will also be looking to breakdown the muscle during this time for energy, however this can be negated by taking HMB, BCAAs as well as making sure to have that high amount of protein in your preworkout meal. My second concern would be performance in the gym. Not having those complex carbs in my system before a lifting session makes me feel like there would be a lack of performance. However I read the body will adapt to this new way of using fat for the fuel source after a few sessions. If anyone can provide their experience or knowledge on the following it would be appreciated.


Here is a early morning unflexed vs flexed shot just to give an idea on where I am currently at.

unflexed



Flexed

[SuffolkPunch]

Further weight loss probably requires a calorie adjustment. This happens when you get lighter.

You realise IF is not optimal for muscle gain (and therefore for muscle retention during fat loss), especially if it's only 2 meals. Ideally you should get 4 protein feedings per day at 4-5 hour intervals. You don't have to eat full meals each time, 1 or 2 of these could be shakes. It doesn't suit me to eat breakfast either so I just have a shake.

Pre/post workout timing is not important if you follow this eating pattern and carb timing is far less important than protein timing, it's usually just a matter of doing what makes you feel best in the gym since it's a highly individualised response. It really is not worth stressing over carb timing beyond that.

You are in danger of being tied in knots by minutia and missing the bigger picture - calories, protein and hard lifting.

[EjnarKolinkar]

The leaner you get the harder it gets to lose weight. Complicated protocols and supplements don't make much difference. People tend to lose weight slower when leaner, and those that do tend to get better end results. Disregard minutia, focus on lifting, eating well, eating as much as you can and still generating consistent weight loss. Patience trumps piffle.

GJ losing the 28 pounds, don't expect to keep going at that rate of losses per week. Take your time, you are already in much better shape than when you started, don't lose sight of that.

[emerica243]

Thanks for the responses. I guess what I'm looking for is how can i continue cutting cals when i'm currently at 1700cal a day already? I do understand the whole as you get leaner, your tdee is going to drop therefore you need to continue to drop cals to keep losing. One thing I didnt mention is I did cut them drastically when I first started. I was actually only eating about 1500, keeping protein high, fats low and carbs non existent. I wanted to see and continue the success so bad that I was probably under eating. I might of even had a few 1200 days in there.

At my current weight and macros, are you suggesting I do drop them another one or 200? Or perhaps if possible up them to 1800 or 1900 and double the cardio? At this point in time, I have no idea how I was running at 1500 for a couple weeks. I cant imagine going to that now. I am however definitely still interesting in the whole glycogen thing. Even though the big picture of calories in vs calories out and proper nutrition to acheive your goals. I feel like there is a benefit or edge to the success with that. I mean, if your glycogen is depleted, and your doing hard workout sessions, is fat not the fuel choice of source by design? Then replenishing the muscles with glycogen via big carb and protein meals right after?

[SuffolkPunch]

Your calories are too low already. I suggest a full diet break or a mass gain phase.

Next time aim to keep your calories as high as possible while still losing weight at your chosen rate. Dropping them too fast paints you into a corner.

[muruku]

up your cals by ~300 and maintain for 1 month or so then re-assess.

[emerica243]

Well, that's what I was hoping to hear and also not hoping to hear. Was hoping to be looking cut come summer. Is this to kind of reset the metabolism? I couldn't find concrete facts if the slowing down and adjustment of ones metabolism when eating low calories was a myth or not.

[SuffolkPunch]

Well, that's what I was hoping to hear and also not hoping to hear. Was hoping to be looking cut come summer. Is this to kind of reset the metabolism? I couldn't find concrete facts if the slowing down and adjustment of ones metabolism when eating low calories was a myth or not.

There is no question that it's an observed phenomenon. There is some argument about the reasons and how permanent the adaptations might be but this study suggests that there is no permanent damage done:

http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/meta...form=hootsuite