Why would anyone ever do Cardio?

[FitnessSeeker8]

For someone bulking, cardio messes with the gains.

For someone cutting, the only major change that needs to be made is the diet, workout remains the same, cardio messes with strength gains. You also need to protect your muscle mass while cutting and cardio affects that too.

The only reason one would do cardio would be when cutting so that you can eat a little more to keep the metabolism high and to satisfy hunger. But even that's not a significiant enough reason and is still risky to mess with gains and impact muscle mass.

Thoughts?

[juggernaut74ia]

For heart and lung health.

[FitnessSeeker8]

meh.

I run a mile to warm up, lift 4 days a week, eat clean and don't smoke.

[Dorich]

For heart and lung health.

Exactly.

Cardio will not "eat muscle" if you are bulking properly.

Similarly, it will not "eat muscle" if you are cutting properly.

While it is not necessary for fat loss, it does raise your TDEE, and there is some evidence to suggest that HIIT could lead to increased fat loss if done right.

Be as it may, I will never understand people who advise neglecting the most important muscle in the human body. Unnecessary does not equal useless.

[dmacdonal9]

I think there's a case to be made that, for someone already lifting, the incremental health benefits from adding cardio on top of what you're already doing might not be all that fantastic.

I posted this elsewhere before, but here's a bit of a comparison:

The big four risk areas for cardiovascular health are:

- Fat loss: As we all know it's about calories. Resistance training is at least as effective in the short term, and given it's ability to change body composition as well, resistance training wins. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12439085

- Blood lipids: Low or moderadate cardio does pretty much nothing. Resistance training reduces bad cholesterol, high intensity cardio improves good cholesterol. No clear winner, both are beneficial. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974201

- Blood pressure: Cardio generally has a bit of an edge here, but resistance training shows benefits as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15662209

- Glucose metabolism: Resistance training is a clear winner over cardio: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con...9/11/2518.full

There's a nice summary of this in the Nov 2010 issue of the AARR.

To answer OP's question, I would say for cardiovascular endurance. If the ability to run/hike/swim long distances is important to you (athletes, military, hunters, etc), you're going to have to do some amount of cardio.

But if cardiovascular health is your goal, I would say it's not that crucial if you're already lifting and eating properly with good macros.

[FitnessSeeker8]

Wow, thanks dmacdonal9. This is very helpful.

How about if my goal is fat loss/body re-composition? Is cardio important/necessary for that?

[dmacdonal9]

Wow, thanks dmacdonal9. This is very helpful.

How about if my goal is fat loss/body re-composition? Is cardio important/necessary for that?

Sure, it's helpful. So if you have the time and the inclination, burn 200 calories on the treadmill and then you can either lose 200 extra calories worth of fat, or eat an extra 200 calories that day. Is that a good tradeoff? I think it can be if you're otherwise sedentary and macros are tight. Maybe not so much if you're already reasonably active. That's an individual thing.

Just be realistic about that, and understand that most estimates of calories burned during cardio are wildly overstated.

[Melis689]

For heart and lung health.

This

[Dorich]

- Fat loss: As we all know it's about calories. Resistance training is at least as effective in the short term, and given it's ability to change body composition as well, resistance training wins. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12439085

- Blood lipids: Low or moderadate cardio does pretty much nothing. Resistance training reduces bad cholesterol, high intensity cardio improves good cholesterol. No clear winner, both are beneficial. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18974201

- Blood pressure: Cardio generally has a bit of an edge here, but resistance training shows benefits as well. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15662209

- Glucose metabolism: Resistance training is a clear winner over cardio: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/con...9/11/2518.full

I will agree that doing "only" low intensity cardio will not do much.

Here's an interesting paper on HIIT and fat loss:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2991639/

The effect of regular aerobic exercise on body fat is negligible; however, other forms of exercise may have a greater impact on body composition. For example, emerging research examining high-intensity intermittent exercise (HIIE) indicates that it may be more effective at reducing subcutaneous and abdominal body fat than other types of exercise. The mechanisms underlying the fat reduction induced by HIIE, however, are undetermined. Regular HIIE has been shown to significantly increase both aerobic and anaerobic fitness. HIIE also significantly lowers insulin resistance and results in a number of skeletal muscle adaptations that result in enhanced skeletal muscle fat oxidation and improved glucose tolerance.

Lots of interesting data under that link, and I recommend reading it.

I'm not saying HIIT is a fat-loss miracle, but it seems to work good for me, and without "eating muscle".

[screwnuts]

First, it's good for your overall health.

Second, I do cardio because I am not training solely to make my body look good. I want it to function well also. Part of that is being able to run a mile or two without feeling like I'm going to die. Also, I just happen to enjoy some forms of cardio (like biking).

[dmacdonal9]

Here's an interesting paper on HIIT and fat loss:

Yeah, my view on HIIT for fat loss is pretty similar to what I posted about cardiovascular health markers. It's about incremental benefit to my mind.

For a non-lifter, HIIT offers anaerobic intensity that they'd not otherwise be exposed to. As a result, mitochondrial density increases, along with other adaptations, like improved insulin sensitivity. This is what seems to be driving the fat loss benefits.

But a guy doing resistance training is already getting those adaptations. I'm not convinced HIIT is going to offer him an incremental improvement over what he's already getting.

And even assuming it can, it comes at a cost, in terms of impacted recovery ability, especially when you're cutting.

The research on HIIT is usually done on couch potatoes or endurance athletes. I've not seen anything done on resistance trained athletes. I suspect that if you did, the benefits would be far less impressive.

[unplugged]

For someone bulking, cardio messes with the gains.

For someone cutting, the only major change that needs to be made is the diet, workout remains the same, cardio messes with strength gains. You also need to protect your muscle mass while cutting and cardio affects that too.

The only reason one would do cardio would be when cutting so that you can eat a little more to keep the metabolism high and to satisfy hunger. But even that's not a significiant enough reason and is still risky to mess with gains and impact muscle mass.

Thoughts?

Uhh no it doesn't do any of these things. Stop living in the past of outdated myths. Unless you are severely under-eating and doing hours of cardio a day it won't hurt your precious muscle gains or burn your muscle

[FitnessSeeker8]

Uhh no it doesn't do any of these things. Stop living in the past of outdated myths. Unless you are severely under-eating and doing hours of cardio a day it won't hurt your precious muscle gains or burn your muscle

That's good to know, if it is true.

[Dorich]

Yeah, my view on HIIT for fat loss is pretty similar to what I posted about cardiovascular health markers. It's about incremental benefit to my mind.

For a non-lifter, HIIT offers anaerobic intensity that they'd not otherwise be exposed to. As a result, mitochondrial density increases, along with other adaptations, like improved insulin sensitivity. This is what seems to be driving the fat loss benefits.

But a guy doing resistance training is already getting those adaptations. I'm not convinced HIIT is going to offer him an incremental improvement over what he's already getting.

And even assuming it can, it comes at a cost, in terms of impacted recovery ability, especially when you're cutting.

The research on HIIT is usually done on couch potatoes or endurance athletes. I've not seen anything done on resistance trained athletes. I suspect that if you did, the benefits would be far less impressive.

I'd say not all resistance training is equal. Depending on frequency, duration, and intensity of the workout, it may not always be as beneficial as cardio. Low rep compound lifts will not offer the same benefits as moderate to high reps doing a big variety of lifts, and vice versa. I am, of course, speculating.

In terms of impacted recovery ability, I started doing HIIT many months ago. All lifts have significantly and consistently been improving, and I'm still aggressively cutting. Would those lifts have improved even more without HIIT? I can't know, but I have a feeling that they wouldn't, and that it provided me with benefits overall. As you seem to suggest, more studies are needed.

Regardless, the link I posted has a very lengthy article that I recommend to anyone interested in HIIT.

[blue9steel]

1) Heart and lung health
2) Some mobility and cardio endurance benefits that are useful
3) Burns extra calories, which lets you eat more

[EjnarKolinkar]

Or we have what is behind door #3: Those who are generally active tend to have better health, lose and maintain weight loss, and are fitter to train rigorously with weights.

I may not do 20 minutes on a treadmill 5x a week, but that does not stop me from enjoying walking the dogs, washing my own car, or playing sports.




*IIRC teh biggest natties did not treat themselves as fragile little snowflakes who would lose all their gainz if they went for a hike.

[ProudRyu]

- Fat loss: As we all know it's about calories. Resistance training is at least as effective in the short term, and given it's ability to change body composition as well, resistance training wins.

Appreciate the article post (it won't let me repost), but I don't think you'd conclude that RT is better for fat loss based on it. I see the opposite. While doing ~50% longer bouts of RT, participants burned slightly fewer calories over 24 hours. This supports the superiority of cardio for minute-for-minute fat loss during a workout (where the RT session will include rest between sets).

[dmacdonal9]

Appreciate the article post (it won't let me repost), but I don't think you'd conclude that RT is better for fat loss based on it. I see the opposite. While doing ~50% longer bouts of RT, participants burned slightly fewer calories over 24 hours. This supports the superiority of cardio for minute-for-minute fat loss during a workout (where the RT session will include rest between sets).

Right, cardio burns more calories, but with the added benefit of muscle gains. In a contrived "you must pick one or the other" choice, I'm just suggesting that you'd probably pick RT because the slightly increased calorie burn from cardio isn't a big enough factor to outweigh the advantages in body composition changes.

But yes, if you narrow your focus to just fat loss, that's a fair statement for sure.

[pondman]

I participate in other activities that are helped by cardio.

[AngelKing1992]

how bout you start lifting? more exercise, less talking b.s. on the internet

[rainclouds55]

for the people that don't do cardio - what are your weights/ age and what's your heart rate if you know it? what does your heart rate go to when you do some sort of cardio?

[MadcatDJ]

I do lots of cardio to improve my fitness for soccer since it is the only sport I am remotely good at, though only at an amateur level. Ive seen built, low bf "fit" guys not last 10-15 minutes of a game. I may not have the soccer skills, but I take a bit of pride in the fact that I can play 90 minutes every game, all season

[Luclin999]

15-20 minutes of HIIT 3-4 times per week shouldn't "mess with your gains" and will boost your metabolic rate and thus helping you get through a cut a bit faster.

Also, it's great for your heart and lungs.

[Serpentarius]

For someone bulking, cardio messes with the gains.

For someone cutting, the only major change that needs to be made is the diet, workout remains the same, cardio messes with strength gains. You also need to protect your muscle mass while cutting and cardio affects that too.

The only reason one would do cardio would be when cutting so that you can eat a little more to keep the metabolism high and to satisfy hunger. But even that's not a significiant enough reason and is still risky to mess with gains and impact muscle mass.

Thoughts?

Its a myth that "cardio" interferes with "gains". EXCESSIVE exercise that hinders or exceeds recovery capacity interferes with adaptations.
Most people are inconsistent casual lifters who never keep their progress because they screw around (gym bros).
Effective "cardio" helps recovery with lifting and improves ability to recover between sets, a person who can run a competitive 5k time vs a lifting bro will be able to recover faster between sets.

[devilsrule61287]

Hard to believe this question is even serious. Cardio can help improve heart health, respiratory health, help with cholesterol, and countless other benefits. There is more to health and fitness than just making muscles bigger and cutting fat. Good overall cardiovascular health is very important.

[EjnarKolinkar]

I think there's a case to be made that, for someone already lifting, the incremental health benefits from adding cardio on top of what you're already doing might not be all that fantastic.

Yep but I like to apply real world experience. There are a bunch of guys at my gym that have to huff and puff and breathe through their mouths to get up the 2 flights of stairs to get to the second floor to lift. You can see it's work for them to do something very basic. I think it's safe to say they would benefit in terms of health from adding some conditioning work.

The reality is most people don't have a massive, advanced lifter work volume in the weight pit. And typical 5x5 workouts with long rest periods (for strength) does not actually lend it self very well to conditioning. OK a guy on PHAT gets a lot of volume. Maybe he does not need to do a hill climb after his workout.

[unplugged]

Yep but I like to apply real world experience. There are a bunch of guys at my gym that have to huff and puff and breathe through their mouths to get up the 2 flights of stairs to get to the second floor to lift. You can see it's work for them to do something very basic. I think it's safe to say they would benefit in terms of health from adding some conditioning work.

The reality is most people don't have a massive, advanced lifter work volume in the weight pit. And typical 5x5 workouts with long rest periods (for strength) does not actually lend it self very well to conditioning. OK a guy on PHAT gets a lot of volume. Maybe he does not need to do a hill climb after his workout.

Yup I see it all the time at my gym. Big, strong guys who do a set and then spend 5 mins catching their breath and walking around the gym who have a bloated look/stomach and red face. Yea these guys are beasts and usually putting up some impressive poundage's but their conditioning sucks balls and their physiques look soft and sloppy however not everyone is in it to improve aesthetics/looks.

[DRSKGW56]

do cardio but bulk properly and just adjust caloric intake according to the amount of cardio you do
cardio is great for your overall health

[meanvic1]

Cardio won't "mess with gains" as long as you maintain a calorie surplus. Energy coming in vs. energy going out.

While you don't want excessive cardio training to interefere with recovery, I find moderate cardiovascular work (walking, hiking) actually promotes faster recovery and better performance in the gym.

[Puloma]

Cardio work out in any form like running, biking, climbing stairs, aerobics or treadmill run-ups help to increase heart rate by pumping oxygen via blood throughout the body. This ensures circulation of pure blood all the time boosting the normal functioning of the body organs and shooting up mental well-being and driving positive energy.