What is the best novice/intermediate program for my goals/numbers?

[nrbeal12]

Looking to gain strength mostly, but wouldn't mind adding some 25+ pounds
Current numbers are not good just heads up. Dropped about 10-15 pounds from 12s at work and being sick (excuse...excuse)

Bench 200x3
Squat 225x 5
Deadlift 300x 5

I would eventually like to get to 315,405,495, but that's awhile into the future.

What program is best with my current numbers? Is there anything I can do on off days, or just cardio/abs? Could this be separated into a 4 day program?

Sorry for the ignorance, new to power lifting routines

[Jisoku]

Any 3x5 or 5x5 LP. It's the best strategy for anyone who can still makes gains on it, regardless of experience.

[wrestler271]

a 5x5 program should do you fine, you can definitely continue with 5x5 with those numbers.

[AKGetsStrength]

Though a linear progression is probably a good shout (I personally prefer grey skull linear prog), I don't totally hate going to a four day split Texas method quite quickly.

[nrbeal12]

a 5x5 program should do you fine, you can definitely continue with 5x5 with those numbers.

Good input wrestler. You say madcows? Or a novice program like ICF?

[nrbeal12]

Though a linear progression is probably a good shout (I personally prefer grey skull linear prog), I don't totally hate going to a four day split Texas method quite quickly.

Interesting, like another user addressed with grey skull... Lack of rows... Have you seen good strength gains with grey skull?

[Jisoku]

Just add in the rows.

[wrestler271]

Good input wrestler. You say madcows? Or a novice program like ICF?

texas method or madcows should do you well.

[AKGetsStrength]

Interesting, like another user addressed with grey skull... Lack of rows... Have you seen good strength gains with grey skull?

Just add in the rows.

Add in rows like jisoku says, but I'm pretty sure JP calls for daily chin-ups which is pretty decent back building for a novice.

[melvin2345]

What program is best with my current numbers?

Your current numbers have dick all to do with what program you run, and that's true for anyone. It's more about what you can adequately recover from while still making consistent gains.

Most people start on a 5x5. Pick one you like and run it until you start regularly stalling.

I started with SL 5x5, switched to Madcows (too soon), then switched to 5/3/1 (too soon).

If I knew then what I know now, I would have stuck with the 5x5 for MUCH longer than I did.

Side note, I bought this book last year (http://www.tigerfitness.com/Massive-...p/massiron.htm), and of the dozen or so that I have, it is by far the best. Splits, full body, 3 day, 4 day, you name it. 120+ pages of really good information, including 20 quality programs focused on long term strength building. If you have $15 to spend, it's well worth it.

[nrbeal12]

Add in rows like jisoku says, but I'm pretty sure JP calls for daily chin-ups which is pretty decent back building for a novice.

So you recommend grey skull over other lifting programs? I know another melvin2345 mentioned that current numbers have nothing to do with what program to run. I have been lifting for the last year and half or so for about 1-2 hour sessions 6 times a week, with little to no strength gains. Another user in another thread told me my lifts were too weak to be running madcow.

[melvin2345]

current numbers have nothing to do with what program to run.

Use this as an example.

Johnny and Billy are equal body weight, and have been training the same amount of time.
Johnny is at 185 bench on his 5x5, but keeps stalling.
Billy is at 250 bench on his 5x5, and hasn't stalled once.

Which one of these two needs to change what they are doing?
Should Billy switch to another program because he hit some arbitrary number, or should he milk the gains from linear progression as long as he can?

This is what I mean by numbers shouldn't dictate what program you run. The ability to recover, while making consistent gains is what is important.

Put simply:
If you can recover, and progress by adding weight to the bar every few days, then do a 5x5.
If that is too much, but you can add weight every week, do Madcows.
If that is too much, and you can only add weight once a month, do 5/3/1.

1-2 hour sessions 6 times a week, with little to no strength gains.

That's a bit excessive. There is really no need to train more than 4 days per week. Most 5x5s have you doing two workouts that alternate so you switch between 4 day and 3 day weeks. That's all you need.

Most importantly, whatever program you end up on, run it faithfully. Don't add a bunch of extra work, or change things around. If there is assistance work that requires equipment you don't have, then find an alternative, but don't alter the reps/sets of the main compound movements. Also make sure you are eating enough to support what you are trying to achieve.

Another user in another thread told me my lifts were too weak to be running madcow.

Feel free to ignore that person. Forever.

[nrbeal12]

Use this as an example.

Johnny and Billy are equal body weight, and have been training the same amount of time.
Johnny is at 185 bench on his 5x5, but keeps stalling.
Billy is at 250 bench on his 5x5, and hasn't stalled once.

Which one of these two needs to change what they are doing?
Should Billy switch to another program because he hit some arbitrary number, or should he milk the gains from linear progression as long as he can?

This is what I mean by numbers shouldn't dictate what program you run. The ability to recover, while making consistent gains is what is important.

Put simply:
If you can recover, and progress by adding weight to the bar every few days, then do a 5x5.
If that is too much, but you can add weight every week, do Madcows.
If that is too much, and you can only add weight once a month, do 5/3/1.



That's a bit excessive. There is really no need to train more than 4 days per week. Most 5x5s have you doing two workouts that alternate so you switch between 4 day and 3 day weeks. That's all you need.

Most importantly, whatever program you end up on, run it faithfully. Don't add a bunch of extra work, or change things around. If there is assistance work that requires equipment you don't have, then find an alternative, but don't alter the reps/sets of the main compound movements. Also make sure you are eating enough to support what you are trying to achieve.



Feel free to ignore that person. Forever.

Thanks for the In depth response Melvin. That makes much more sense to me then what I was originally told. When I was running 6 days a week I would make decent size gains but absolutely no strength gains. I'm testing the waters with ICF 5x5 with some additional cardio/stretching and some abdominal work on off days.

Hopefully I can put weight on the bar every session.

Appreciate the tips and feedback though. Very informative!

[melvin2345]

Thanks for the In depth response Melvin. That makes much more sense to me then what I was originally told. When I was running 6 days a week I would make decent size gains but absolutely no strength gains. I'm testing the waters with ICF 5x5 with some additional cardio/stretching and some abdominal work on off days.

Hopefully I can put weight on the bar every session.

Appreciate the tips and feedback though. Very informative!

Glad to help. I've heard good things from people who have run ICF for extended periods of time.

[Turtora]

melvin comin through with solid advice as usual ITT

[Rileh]

Canditos linear strength/control. I have ran it since I STARTED training in October and I want a 500 raw squat to IPF depth in 8.5 weeks at around 177. Keep in mind I am 17 and I am fat as Fk. Would be less than 150 if I was 10%

*add 5 pounds every week to squat, bench and dead.* my back is kind of weird right now so I can't deadlift. Wanted 450x6 Monday but low back is strained. so I'm going to deload for a week and let it recover.

Strength/Control
Monday - Heavy Lower Day
Squat - 3 Sets x 6 Reps
Deadlift 2 Sets x 6 Reps
Romanian Deadlifts - 3 x 8-12
Hammer curls - 3 x 8-12
Another curl - 3 x 8-12

Tuesday - Heavy Upper Day
Bench Press - 3 Sets x 6 Reps
Close Grip Bench - 3 sets x 8 reps
Bent over Barbell rows - 3 Sets x 6 Reps
Standing Overhead press - 2 Sets x 6 Reps
Pullups - 3 sets x 6 reps
Tricep extension - 3 x 8-12
facepulls - 3 x 8-12


Thursday - Control Lower Day
Pause Squat - 6 Sets x 4 Reps
Pause Deadlift (pause right after weight comes off floor) - 3 Sets x 4 Reps
Romanian Deadlifts - 3 x 8-12
Hammer curls - 3 x 8-12
Another curl - 3 x 8-12

Friday - Control Upper Day
Spoto Press - 6 Sets x 4 Reps
Close Grip bench - 3 x 8
Pause Upper Back Exercise (Pause at full contraction) - 6 Sets x 4 Reps
Standing Overhead Press - 2 Set x 8 reps
Pullups - 2 Set x 10 Reps
Tricep Extension - 3 Sets x 8-12
Face pulls - 3 Sets x 8-12

[nrbeal12]

melvin comin through with solid advice as usual ITT

This