Question about people who say they are in a caloric deficit yet cannot lose fat

[carolinahbrah]

How is it scientifically possible to be in a caloric deficit for an extended period of time and not have your body catabolize itself? Even if you have a thyroid problem, if you are eating 1200 calories a day, how could it be possible that you are 'not losing weight' while your maintenance can't be below 2000. Where does the extra energy you need to survive come from? Is there a magic calorie fairy that replenishes their energy each night, or are these people liars? Help me out.

[nosirrahx]

They are one of the X-Men in that they have the ability to violate the laws of physics with their mutant genetics.

[MrM27]

Grade A topic there buddy.

[db2012]

How is it scientifically possible to be in a caloric deficit for an extended period of time and not have your body catabolize itself? Even if you have a thyroid problem, if you are eating 1200 calories a day, how could it be possible that you are 'not losing weight' while your maintenance can't be below 2000. Where does the extra energy you need to survive come from? Is there a magic calorie fairy that replenishes their energy each night, or are these people liars? Help me out.

This is like saying, "Why does my car not run even though it has enough oil". This is ONE tiny piece of a very complex puzzle and your RMR (resting metabolic rate) changes day to day. I mean for example if you allocate 120g/fat/day and get that primarily threw sources like chicken skin, saturated fat from 80% beef/steak cuts, cheese/creams. This is going to react totally different in your body compared to easily utilized healthier sources coming from salmon, EFAs, almonds, avocado, pure saturated coconut EVA coconut oil (polly/mono un-saturated fats) ect... And we're just on fat here. Everyone who focuses primarily on calories for their overall dietary goals will be mediocre at best. Content and timing is just as important of your macro nutrient profile and how it fluctuates day to day.

[Znik]

How is it scientifically possible to be in a caloric deficit for an extended period of time and not have your body catabolize itself? Even if you have a thyroid problem, if you are eating 1200 calories a day, how could it be possible that you are 'not losing weight' while your maintenance can't be below 2000. Where does the extra energy you need to survive come from? Is there a magic calorie fairy that replenishes their energy each night, or are these people liars? Help me out.

It's not possible. Those people lie to themselves and others, by things like subconsciously snacking, vastly underestimating intake and overestimating energy output.

RESULTS:

Seventeen women (49%) underreported their EI by 21%. A significant negative correlation was found between social desirability and EI:EE. Undereating, errors in portion sizes estimation and the inconvenience of having to record everything that was eaten seemed to explain underreporting. Mean portion sizes did not differ for underreporters and non-underreporters. Fewer self-reported years of education was correlated with underreporting only among normal-weight women

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14520248

Factors particularly important in predicting underreporting
of energy intake include factors indicating dissatisfaction
with body image; for example, a 398 kcal/day underreport
in subjects attempting weight loss during the past year
with a nearly 500 kcal/day underreport in women. Overall,
women underreported by 393 kcal/day relative to men and
women evinced a social desirability bias amounting to a 26
kcal underreport for each point on the social desirability
scale. Gender differences also were evident in the effect of
percent body fat (with men underreporting about 16 kcal/
day/percent body fat) and in departure from self-reported
ideal body weight (with women underreporting about 21 kcal/
day/kg).

Total energy expenditure and resting metabolic rate in the subjects with diet resistance (group 1) were within 5 percent of the predicted values for body composition, and there was no significant difference between groups 1 and 2 in the thermic effects of food and exercise. Low energy expenditure was thus excluded as a mechanism of self-reported diet resistance. In contrast, the subjects in group 1 underreported their actual food intake by an average (+/- SD) of 47 +/- 16 percent and overreported their physical activity by 51 +/- 75 percent. Although the subjects in group 1 had no distinct psychopathologic characteristics, they perceived a genetic cause for their obesity, used thyroid medication at a high frequency, and described their eating behavior as relatively normal (all P < 0.05 as compared with group 2).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1454084

RESULTS:

All patients had normal serum thyroid hormone levels. Eight patients had RMR and TEE values within 15% of predicted values and were substantially underreporting their energy intake. One patient had low TEE (-19%) and a normal RMR, a finding that implies a low level of physical activity. This patient also underreported energy intake as estimated by the doubly labeled water technique during the study (-38%). The 10th patient had a low RMR (-23.2%) and TEE (-25.0%), the mechanism of which was uncertain. This patient's reported food intake over the 14-day period was accurate but was less than her long-term intake over months or years as suggested by doubly labeled water TEE estimates. The TEF response in patients was not significantly different from that observed in the control group.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7594141

Hell even dieticians struggle with accurately controlling their intake as seen by this study:

The energy expenditure of the dietitians and controls were not different (2,154+/-105 [mean+/- standard error of the mean] kcal/day for dietitians and 2,315 +/- 90 kcal/ day for controls). The dietitians underreported their energy intake obtained from the food records by an average of 223 +/- 116 kcal/day, which was not different from their energy expenditure. Participants in the control group, as hypothesized, significantly underreported their energy intake (429 +/- 142 kcal/day, P < .05).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12396160

[Groce]

they're not in a deficit, people are terrible at estimating caloric intake and lying to themselves

[avodo]

They are the same people that guess everything and just look at their plate of chicken and lettuce with mayo and cheese and go "well that's 300 calories, it's healthy" when in reality it's probably more like 1000. Most people really have no idea what they're consuming, if they did they wouldn't be complaining about not being able to lose weight because it really is quite simple if you're willing to put a little thought into it.

[carolinahbrah]

It's not possible. Those people lie to themselves and others, by things like subconsciously snacking, vastly underestimating intake and overestimating energy output.

Thank you for this information. What about people with thyroid problems? I don't know much about it – maybe they have slower metabolisms or different appetites – but they should be able to lose weight like anyone else with a caloric deficit, correct?

[Tommy W.]

This is like saying, "Why does my car not run even though it has enough oil". This is ONE tiny piece of a very complex puzzle and your RMR (resting metabolic rate) changes day to day. I mean for example if you allocate 120g/fat/day and get that primarily threw sources like chicken skin, saturated fat from 80% beef/steak cuts, cheese/creams. This is going to react totally different in your body compared to easily utilized healthier sources coming from salmon, EFAs, almonds, avocado, pure saturated coconut EVA coconut oil (polly/mono un-saturated fats) ect... And we're just on fat here. Everyone who focuses primarily on calories for their overall dietary goals will be mediocre at best. Content and timing is just as important of your macro nutrient profile and how it fluctuates day to day.

There is a lot of holes in this and this type of thinking is what holds people back from fatloss.
Those things matter, but not that much when it comes to fatloss. Body composition, somewhat, but from a fatloss perspective, very small part of the simple puzzle. People that try to overthink fats, etc, in an attempt to get around cals in and out end up spinning they're wheels more times than not.

[carolinahbrah]

This is like saying, "Why does my car not run even though it has enough oil". This is ONE tiny piece of a very complex puzzle and your RMR (resting metabolic rate) changes day to day. I mean for example if you allocate 120g/fat/day and get that primarily threw sources like chicken skin, saturated fat from 80% beef/steak cuts, cheese/creams. This is going to react totally different in your body compared to easily utilized healthier sources coming from salmon, EFAs, almonds, avocado, pure saturated coconut EVA coconut oil (polly/mono un-saturated fats) ect... And we're just on fat here. Everyone who focuses primarily on calories for their overall dietary goals will be mediocre at best. Content and timing is just as important of your macro nutrient profile and how it fluctuates day to day.

I think my question is more like "Why does my car run without oil?" I think I understand what you're getting at, though. For example, if people eat a good amount of milk products, they will excrete more fat than those who don't (due to the calcium), which is less calories absorbed by the intestines. Overall though, if you are counting a 500 calorie deficit, I don't think it's significant enough to offset that.

[sdunn96]

They are not liars, they are just wrong.
If they are not honestly and truthfully tracking, weighing, logging there calorie intake for a decent period of time, then they are most likely guessing at how much they are eating.

If people actually took the time to see what a serving size of something looked like, they would realize they are eating way more....

Peanut butter (for me) is a big one.
One serving of PB is pretty small compared to what I think it should be.

[Tommy W.]

At lunch with my daughter yesterday the subject of her current fatloss came up.

"I dunno dad, I eat healthy and around probably 1,000 calories a day. (she's 23 and 5-9).
I plugged in her average daily food choices and amounts into my Fitday.com app. 2,200 calories. She was shocked.

She represents probably 90% of people trying to lose fat.

[Croog]

Yeah, must not be calculating right.

I'm cutting right now, and at the start I was just guessing. However, I found out that you can actually search for foods on MFP, so it's made it a lot easier to track my calories (for when it's not me cooking the meal).

However, I think it's easy to underestimate calories. I was at a friends house a few days ago, and all he had in his cupboard for lunch was some bagels - so I had a bagel, but I was absolutely shocked to find that bagel had 240 calories in it - I would have guessed it had <110.

[sdunn96]

At lunch with my daughter yesterday the subject of her current fatloss came up.

"I dunno dad, I eat healthy and around probably 1,000 calories a day. (she's 23 and 5-9).
I plugged in her average daily food choices and amounts into my Fitday.com app. 2,200 calories. She was shocked.

She represents probably 90% of people trying to lose fat.

I know when I started using a scale to weigh my food, I was shocked as well.....
If anyone is serious about their weight goals.....then getting a food scale is an absolute must.

[Tommy W.]

I know when I started using a scale to weigh my food, I was shocked as well.....
If anyone is serious about their weight goals.....then getting a food scale is an absolute must.

i found the same. Big wake up call

[jdrush]

I know when I started using a scale to weigh my food, I was shocked as well.....
If anyone is serious about their weight goals.....then getting a food scale is an absolute must.

My wife almost killed me when I started weighing the food because she gets less now.

As for the PB, I agree. 1 Tbsp is so much smaller than you think, I was probably putting 5 T in my oatmeal when I thought I was putting in 2.

[Tommy W.]

Isn't the definition of a tsp of peanut butter as much as you can load on the spoon? ;-)))

[jdrush]

Isn't the definition of a tsp of peanut butter as much as you can load on the spoon? ;-)))

Exactly my thoughts.

[nosirrahx]

People guess low on my calories by half when I show them what I eat in a day. They want my results but when I show them what I eat they are like "that is like 700 calories, I would die". Well, I am not dead, I am gaining strength while losing fat and I sure as hell do not eat 700 calories no matter what it looks like.

I agree completely with what was said above, it goes on a scale before it goes in your mouth. Only exception is water, but you still should roughly know much water you are drinking.

[gophergold9]

Incredibly easy to underestimate calories. That's one difference you see between fit and obese people. Ask an obese man to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, then ask a fit person to make one too. There's the answer to the "...but I eat like my fit friends!" exclamation that obese people make about their dietary habits.

[JELLIS4422]

I have to agree with people under estimating calories. People tend to ignore the 1-2 cookies the ate at the office or the handful of trail mix the grabbed really quick. People are not smart when it comes to calories and nutrition. My damn mom didn't know an apple had carbs... WTF...People also forget liquid calories. Juice is not a healthy alternative to soda when trying to lose fat. I do think its possible to not lose weight in an extreme calorie deficit, but I think you'd have to be down there for a long long and doing way too much cardio for that to happen. Or you have a medical condition. But I think the majority of people are just dumb

Incredibly easy to underestimate calories. That's one difference you see between fit and obese people. Ask an obese man to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, then ask a fit person to make one too. There's the answer to the "...but I eat like my fit friends!" exclamation that obese people make about their dietary habits.

[Tommy W.]

But I think the majority of people are just dumb

Just uneducated

[AncientYouth]

I nearly cried when I first measured and weighed what a serving of Nutella chocolate spread was

[sdunn96]

Isn't the definition of a tsp of peanut butter as much as you can load on the spoon? ;-)))

If only.....that's how I used to do it.
ignorance was rather bliss.

[gophergold9]

I nearly cried when I first measured and weighed what a serving of Nutella chocolate spread was

About 10% BF ago I would make peanut butter and nutella sandwiches and wash it down with 16 oz of milk. I don't even want to know how much I was actually putting on those damn things haha.

[Tommy W.]

I think OP is getting it now

[carolinahbrah]

I think OP is getting it now

Well, there were a bunch of annoying comments about peanut butter and no one answered the thyroid question, which I was mostly interested in

[sdunn96]

Well, there were a bunch of annoying comments about peanut butter and no one answered the thyroid question, which I was mostly interested in

Requires a bigger deficit I believe

[Serpentarius]

It has more to do with subconscious conditioning and mechanics more than the actual calories.
An average person is awful at math
People forget they eat food
People LIE about eating food (closet eaters)
They dont know how to calculate
People feel if they exercise they can relax on the "weekend"

There is no actual thing as a stall, its just one of the reasons above, they think they are unique snowflakes.

[Znik]

Well, there were a bunch of annoying comments about peanut butter and no one answered the thyroid question, which I was mostly interested in

What about the thyroid question ? Hypothyroidism can lead to like 0-400kcal reduction in RMR depending on it's scale and medication, while medicated it does nothing. Mild hypo 0-200kcal, full blown hypo 200-400kcal.

Fun part about hypothyroidism is that your appetite actually adjusts to the lowered RMR, thus you eat less. The actual weight gain by hypothyroidism is actually water retention (5-20lbs) and that water is flushed when medicated.
I am not sure where the myth that hypothyroidism causes massive fat gain or inability to lose weight comes from but I have not seen much if any evidence to support that claim.

Full blown hypo could probably lead to fat gain because of it's symptoms like lethargy,inability to exercise/be active at all, muscle loss etc. but by that stage you will be getting medication and return to normal. As you would feel absolutely horrible and sick without medication.

But usually you see people who exercise "a lot" , eat super "healthily" , is active (tons of walking and such) etc. and then blames thyroid for not losing weight when it's blatantly obvious they don't have much if any thyroid issues as those things wouldn't be very doable if they did and it's actually a pretty damn rare condition.

Very mild hypothyroidism on the other hand is pretty common, but it's effect on RMR, TDEE,NEAT etc. is so negligible it's not even worth considering and I actually had a damn hard time to find any evidence to support a noticeable effect on anything in that state.