My 2x per week modified DUP bench programme. Please be kind enough to critique

[scotpak1979]

Hi guys

So Im gonna start using a bench programme posted by Ecchastang a few months back (but with a few modifications)

It basically works as follows:
I have used 100kg as my 1 rep max so you can see percentages used.
You simply add 2.5kg (or 5lbs) per week.
(sets x reps)
Please note you work up to a heavy single of 90-95% of 1rpm during your warm up before
you start working sets.

Volume block
Week 1
Tuesday 4x8 70 (hypertrophy)
Thursday 5x6 75 (strength)
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Tuesday 4x8 72.5
Thursday 5x6 77.5
Sunday 6x4 82.5

week 3
Tuesday 4x7 75
Thursday 5x5 80
Sunday 6x3 85

week 4
Tuesday 4x7 77.5
Thursday 5x5 82.5
Sunday 6x3 87.5

Intensity Block
week 5
Tuesday 4x4 80
Thursday 4x3 85
Sunday 4x2 90

week 6
Tuesday 4x4 85
Thursday 4x3 90
Sunday 4x2 95


I am thinking of modifying above as follows:

As I only want to bench twice a week (work constraints and history of shoulder issues) my plan
is to remove hypertrophy day (4x8 day) and simply add 3 sets of 10 reps of dumbbell presses
with palms facing to strength day. I will also do 3x8 dumbbell rows on both bench days, and 3x5 military presses (+ downsets)
on 2nd bench day. Finally some rear delts work (3 sets of 10 on both days).

I am also replacing the intensity block (weeks 5 & 6) with a Peaking program I got from Garrett Blevins (Youtube)
Note you are only benching once a week in Week 5 & 6

Week 5
4 sets of 3 @ 90% + 4 sets of 3 @ 75% (total 8 sets)

Week 6
Go for 3 rep max PR + 1 set @ 92.5% + 2 sets of 3 @ 77.5% (total 4 sets)

Week 7 Powerlifting comp!! or you go back to Week 1


Im doing the candito 6 week programme for Squats/ Deadlifts and happy with that.

What do you guys think?

[scotpak1979]

Sorry guys. I know its a long post. Reps to those who read and reply.

[adpowah]

I had a longer response but it came down to this, I couldn't handle the volume from either of those programs.

[Trolltongue]

Well, the original program looks good and I'm pretty sure all bench programs that don't specifically include rows and rear delt work just assume you're doing it, so I don't think those will be an issue.

The thing I can't really comment on is dropping hypertrophy day and adding DB bench and OHP to make up for it; I see the reasoning behind it, a less taxing hypertrophy builder to make up for the lack of that hypertrophy day, but you're fundamentally changing the basis of the program by reducing specificity and frequency. That isn't to say I think it's worse, it's just so different that I don't know how it'll go, regardless it's still a program with a reasonable progression scheme and decent frequency and volume that has you handling heavy weights regularly so it's already got a leg up on most programs.

Lastly I think the intensity block is far superior to the 2 week peaking cycle unless you're actually doing a meet in week 7(or maybe week 6 if your last bench is Monday or something). The intensity block looks like it's designed to get you used to handling heavy weights without killing you, building that technique through frequency and repetition and building your near-max strength, the peaking cycle looks like it just allows you to test a 3RM and recover well for a single peak performance, which is obviously the goal of a peaking cycle. In other words, I think the intensity block(even 2d/wk) will build more strength and the peaking cycle will just let you test it.

[scotpak1979]

Thx for your detailed reply. You make some good points.
The accessory info I gave was just to give u guys additional info. Didnt mean to imply original program didnt include it.

I agree with u that the intensity block is probably better. Im running that week 5+6 peaking program right now for my meet in 2 weeks so will see how it goes.

The problem I have is trying to reduce the pressing to 2 times a week and also make it appropriate to run alongside Candito 6 week. Doing it my way makes it good to run alongside Candito as Candito is only really a 4 week program with week 5 being a week u go for a rep pr, and week 6 u compete or restart.

[sirwazzles]

Personally, I would lower some of the volume to Prilepin's chart levels, or at least closer to it. Every single workout starting with week one is over his table a good bit. And if you add in too much accessory on top of that, that will only make it worse. Like adpowah, I couldn't/wouldn't do the volume of either workouts you posted.

edit: Not every single workout, most exceed total volume though. My mistake.

[Trolltongue]

Personally, I would lower some of the volume to Prilepin's chart levels, or at least closer to it. Every single workout starting with week one is over his table a good bit. And if you add in too much accessory on top of that, that will only make it worse. Like adpowah, I couldn't/wouldn't do the volume of either workouts you posted.

Firstly I agree on the point that adding in too much accessory work(presses and isolating pressing muscles) does not render itself well to the program.

However, Prilepin's chart is a bit rubbish, not because it's bad but because it isn't very applicable to powerlifting, it was made years ago for weightlifters and I'm confident in saying that most advanced powerlifters, and elite weightlifters, do way more volume one way or another. You're also completely wrong that every single workout is over the parameters of the table, I counted and using his actual bench max 8 out of 18 sessions fall within the table's parameters and the rest only pass it on total volume(due to number of sets) or number of reps(7-8).

[scotpak1979]

Yep. For me and probably most others, you probably need alot more volume on bench than is indicated via Prilepins chart to keep things moving up. Definitely a great guideline for Deadlifts, but less so for squats and completely irrelevant for bench in my opinion. It was devised specifically for olympic lifts so that probably explains this.

[BioSmith91]

Personally I think you're better off if you mix in some more volume in your intensity block and intensity into your volume block. That's one thing I don't really understand about most iterations I see of DUP is that they only vary reps between workouts, but not sets. It seems to me that the most important thing that would be varied from workout to workout would be intensity vs. volume with say one workout very high volume at a low intensity, another moderate volume moderate intensity, and a final one high intensity but low volume. But I never see DUP programmed that way, and I have no clue why.

[BioSmith91]

Yep. For me and probably most others, you probably need alot more volume on bench than is indicated via Prilepins chart to keep things moving up. Definitely a great guideline for Deadlifts, but less so for squats and completely irrelevant for bench in my opinion. It was devised specifically for olympic lifts so that probably explains this.

Prilepins chart was designed for Olympic Weightlifters and was largely used by multi-ply powerlifers who were training at 90%+ pretty much every single week. When you're constantly training at 85%+ of max, then yeah that's where the chart comes into play, but under 85% (and especially under 80%) I think the chart vastly underestimates how much volume can be accumulated.

[scotpak1979]

Personally I think you're better off if you mix in some more volume in your intensity block and intensity into your volume block. That's one thing I don't really understand about most iterations I see of DUP is that they only vary reps between workouts, but not sets. It seems to me that the most important thing that would be varied from workout to workout would be intensity vs. volume with say one workout very high volume at a low intensity, another moderate volume moderate intensity, and a final one high intensity but low volume. But I never see DUP programmed that way, and I have no clue why.

What did u make of my changes to the intensity block? (Substituting Garrett blevins peaking programe for week 5 and 6?)

[pntbll687]

Hi guys

So Im gonna start using a bench programme posted by Ecchastang a few months back (but with a few modifications)

It basically works as follows:
I have used 100kg as my 1 rep max so you can see percentages used.
You simply add 2.5kg (or 5lbs) per week.
(sets x reps)
Please note you work up to a heavy single of 90-95% of 1rpm during your warm up before
you start working sets.

Volume block
Week 1
Tuesday 4x8 70 (hypertrophy)
Thursday 5x6 75 (strength)
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Tuesday 4x8 72.5
Thursday 5x6 77.5
Sunday 6x4 82.5

week 3
Tuesday 4x7 75
Thursday 5x5 80
Sunday 6x3 85

week 4
Tuesday 4x7 77.5
Thursday 5x5 82.5
Sunday 6x3 87.5

Intensity Block
week 5
Tuesday 4x4 80
Thursday 4x3 85
Sunday 4x2 90

week 6
Tuesday 4x4 85
Thursday 4x3 90
Sunday 4x2 95


I am thinking of modifying above as follows:

As I only want to bench twice a week (work constraints and history of shoulder issues) my plan
is to remove hypertrophy day (4x8 day) and simply add 3 sets of 10 reps of dumbbell presses
with palms facing to strength day. I will also do 3x8 dumbbell rows on both bench days, and 3x5 military presses (+ downsets)
on 2nd bench day. Finally some rear delts work (3 sets of 10 on both days).

I am also replacing the intensity block (weeks 5 & 6) with a Peaking program I got from Garrett Blevins (Youtube)
Note you are only benching once a week in Week 5 & 6

Week 5
4 sets of 3 @ 90% + 4 sets of 3 @ 75% (total 8 sets)

Week 6
Go for 3 rep max PR + 1 set @ 92.5% + 2 sets of 3 @ 77.5% (total 4 sets)

Week 7 Powerlifting comp!! or you go back to Week 1


Im doing the candito 6 week programme for Squats/ Deadlifts and happy with that.

What do you guys think?

Why don't you just rotate the days over two days a week, thus extending your cycle by a couple weeks, but you would still be getting in the recommended volume the program calls for.

One thing I don't understand is the single @ 90-95% during warm ups. Simply put, that percentage is not a warm up, it may be a max effort attempt depending on your state of fatigue.

I would at least run one cycle of the program without adding or substituting anything. How are you gonna know if it's working if you change things right off the start?

[ecchastang]

I like the set up of the top program, but maybe I am a little biased. The peaking for the modification looks solid also, but I wouldn't get rid of the hypertrophy day for the other work. I would say pick one, try it and see what happens. I am sure you won't be disappointed.

Edit: I also would recommend at least one deload day between volume and intensity.

[arian11]

I like the set up of the top program, but maybe I am a little biased.

I think the "power" sessions start off pretty hard and progress way too fast.

Volume block
Week 1
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Sunday 6x4 82.5

week 3
Sunday 6x3 85

week 4
Sunday 6x3 87.5

6x3@87.5% for most people will be a max effort session and they may even fail. Either you have to use a sub-max when running the percentages or you have to assume the lifter is going to increase their strength about 10% in 3 weeks while in a fatigued state. I mean I wish I could go from a 315 bench 1RM to a 345 bench 1RM in 3 weeks while deep in a volume block, but it's not gonna happen. If the lifter is a n00b who can still make daily progress, then I guess it could work.

[scotpak1979]

I like the set up of the top program, but maybe I am a little biased. The peaking for the modification looks solid also, but I wouldn't get rid of the hypertrophy day for the other work. I would say pick one, try it and see what happens. I am sure you won't be disappointed.

Edit: I also would recommend at least one deload day between volume and intensity.

Thanks alot for feedback. Was keen to keep it as it is but tried benching 3 times a week recently and started to get a minor pec strain. With my history of pressing injuries combined with time constraints due to work i thought sticking to 2 was a better for me. As for the intensity block mod it was a compromise to make it work alongside the candito program which is essentially only 4 weeks with week 5 being a max rep testing week. That way I can use the peaking program for all lifts together. I could have stretched out the candito program (for squats/ DLs) to match your 6 week program but didnt trust my modifications for that. Lets see how it goes.

[scotpak1979]

I think the "power" sessions start off pretty hard and progress way too fast.

Volume block
Week 1
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Sunday 6x4 82.5

week 3
Sunday 6x3 85

week 4
Sunday 6x3 87.5

6x3@87.5% for most people will be a max effort session and they may even fail. Either you have to use a sub-max when running the percentages or you have to assume the lifter is going to increase their strength about 10% in 3 weeks while in a fatigued state. I mean I wish I could go from a 315 bench 1RM to a 345 bench 1RM in 3 weeks while deep in a volume block, but it's not gonna happen. If the lifter is a n00b who can still make daily progress, then I guess it could work.

Hi Arian

U make a good point. Lets see how the first session goes and I will adjust the percentages accordingly. Oh and thanks for the DL advice. Been DLing with a flat lower back, and yes it was slower off the ground to start but that speed improved quickly. Did 220kg for 4 sets of 3 followed by 4 sets of 3 @ 185kg.(as week 5 from above mod) No issues locking out and my lower back actually feels much better.

[BioSmith91]

What did u make of my changes to the intensity block? (Substituting Garrett blevins peaking programe for week 5 and 6?)

You're pretty much just substituting one method of intensification for another. Except the difference is that a "peaking" program means you are preparing to transition into a meet and requires a recovery block afterwards, whereas the standard intensity block is more so for transitioning back into training. So I think its less suitable for long term progress.

[scotpak1979]

I liked the idea of trying to break your 3 rep max every 6 weeks then deloading then starting week 1 and trying to do it all again.

[Trolltongue]

I think the "power" sessions start off pretty hard and progress way too fast.

Volume block
Week 1
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Sunday 6x4 82.5

week 3
Sunday 6x3 85

week 4
Sunday 6x3 87.5

6x3@87.5% for most people will be a max effort session and they may even fail. Either you have to use a sub-max when running the percentages or you have to assume the lifter is going to increase their strength about 10% in 3 weeks while in a fatigued state. I mean I wish I could go from a 315 bench 1RM to a 345 bench 1RM in 3 weeks while deep in a volume block, but it's not gonna happen. If the lifter is a n00b who can still make daily progress, then I guess it could work.

The way I read it only the first week's numbers were actually percentages and then it's just +2.5 kg/5 lbs every week, so more like:

Volume block
Week 1
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Sunday 6x4 80+2.5kg/5lbs (82% for scotpak)

week 3
Sunday 6x3 80+5kg/10lbs(84.1% for scotpak)

week 4
Sunday 6x3 80+7.5kg/15lbs(86.1% for scotpak)

I know it's not a big difference, especially for someone with a near 100kg or 200lbs bench but I just wanted to make the distinction.

[arian11]

The way I read it only the first week's numbers were actually percentages and then it's just +2.5 kg/5 lbs every week, so more like:

Volume block
Week 1
Sunday 6x4 80 (power)

Week 2
Sunday 6x4 80+2.5kg/5lbs (82% for scotpak)

week 3
Sunday 6x3 80+5kg/10lbs(84.1% for scotpak)

week 4
Sunday 6x3 80+7.5kg/15lbs(86.1% for scotpak)

I know it's not a big difference, especially for someone with a near 100kg or 200lbs bench but I just wanted to make the distinction.

He inputted 100kg as a max so that the prescribed weights would be equal to the actual percentage. But it is percentage based that is going up 2.5% each week. That can be difficult progress for some lifters and isn't even necessarily needed for a "power" session. Who said you need to progress 2.5% or even 2.5kg for your "power" session every week? It's supposed to be reps that are fast, solid in technique and promote active recovery. You could stay at 80% for the entire program and achieve said goals. I'm 3 months deep into training with Bryce Lewis and for my deadlift "power" session this week I did 6x3@82% so we've barely moved up in percentage at all. It would actually be best to run "power" protocols based on RPE. That way you can auto-regulate the intensity and volume in real time on a week to week basis.

[Trolltongue]

He inputted 100kg as a max so that the prescribed weights would be equal to the actual percentage. But it is percentage based that is going up 2.5% each week. That can be difficult progress for some lifters and isn't even necessarily needed for a "power" session. Who said you need to progress 2.5% or even 2.5kg for your "power" session every week? It's supposed to be reps that are fast, solid in technique and promote active recovery. You could stay at 80% for the entire program and achieve said goals. I'm 3 months deep into training with Bryce Lewis and for my deadlift "power" session this week I did 6x3@82% so we've barely moved up in percentage at all. It would actually be best to run "power" protocols based on RPE. That way you can auto-regulate the intensity and volume in real time on a week to week basis.

Yeah no, I agree with you, if the goal of the power day is to get good, fast technique work and help recovery then 6x4@80%+ seems unnecessarily heavy, I just wanted to make sure we were clear on the progression scheme, because I'm fairly certain that regardless of whether your bench is 50 kg or 250 kg this program has you progressing by 2.5kg/5lbs per week and as such the OP doesn't actually list percentages unless your actual max is 100 kg.

I know this might seem like nitpicking to some but I think there's a pretty big difference between doing 4x2@87.5% in week 6 with a 200 kg max bench and 4x2@100% with a 75 kg max bench. Of course ecchastang originally posted this so he might correct me and I might be way off base and if that's so then I'm sorry.

[sirwazzles]

Firstly I agree on the point that adding in too much accessory work(presses and isolating pressing muscles) does not render itself well to the program.

However, Prilepin's chart is a bit rubbish, not because it's bad but because it isn't very applicable to powerlifting, it was made years ago for weightlifters and I'm confident in saying that most advanced powerlifters, and elite weightlifters, do way more volume one way or another. You're also completely wrong that every single workout is over the parameters of the table, I counted and using his actual bench max 8 out of 18 sessions fall within the table's parameters and the rest only pass it on total volume(due to number of sets) or number of reps(7-8).

My bad, I didn't count all of them. I did the first several and assumed on the rest. My mistake. Just for reference though, I was only referring to total volume.

As far as using the table for powerlifting goes, it's been working for me. Granted, I lift every day, benching and squatting 3x/week each. Having high single workout volume and doing a lift 1-2 times a week didn't work as well for me. Decreasing/changing the daily volume while increasing the weekly volume and frequency has helped. He was talking about benching 2-3 times a week, so having less single workout volume, i.e. something similar to Prilepin's chart, is my suggestion. If nothing else, it's a good starting place for high frequency lifting. More volume can be added after the lifter can adequately judge their own recovery, rather than just jumping in to a difficult routine with both feet. But that's just my 2 cents. Take it or leave it.

[scotpak1979]

Just to clarify for Arian and Trolltongue, the power days start at 80%, then you add 2.5kg each week. Thus if you have a 1 rep max of 140kg, then in week 4 you will be doing 6 sets of 3 @ 120 (rounded to nearest 2.5) which = 85.7%. Week 4 is not 6 sets of 3 @ a set percentage of 87.5%.

[ecchastang]

Of course ecchastang originally posted this so he might correct me and I might be way off base and if that's so then I'm sorry.

Scotpak1979 originally posted, but he was using something similar (but not the same) as something I had sent him in private messages during some discussions a little while back. When I ran my program, I went up 5 lbs each week, and I also did an AMRAP on my last set of the 6x4 week. But you are correct that I did't go up 2.5%, I was going up about 1.4%, and I was on a bench every 3rd day schedule, so 3 sessions in 9 days, which allows for more recovery but lets you bench more than twice per week average.

[scotpak1979]

In case anyone was interested (particularly those who want to do a good bench program alongside Candito 6 week programme I decided to do the following:

For Squats & Deadlift:
> I took out week 5 & 6 from the Candito program, as week 5 is a testing week, and week 6 is a deload. Dont want to waste time doing testing weeks, just want to get stronger. I can test my strength when I feel I need to or at a meet. I will just add a set weight, e.g 2.5 to 5kg per cycle

> Extend Candito week 1-4 by 2 week. Did this very simply, repeating week 3 & week 4 (but adding 2.5kg to all the sets). Thus Week 5 & 6 are candito week 4 repeated (2nd week all with weights+ 2.5kg)

For Bench

> Stick to the DUP programme but doing only strength and power days. Hypertrophy day is omitted but Dumbbell bench (3x10) is added to strength day as a decent variant giving hypertrophy (plus gives muscles a break from benching the same way all the time)
> For Intensity block (week 5 & 6), I do the (4x3) and (4x2) days. The 4X4 days are omitted. Instead I add Dumbbell bench (4x5), which I do after 4x3 bench.

Im hoping this should be a good program for those who dont want to bench more than twice a week, and for those who dont have the time to spend up to 2 hours in the gym, as might be required following FULL DUP or RTS programs/ templates. (wont repeat accessories/ assistance as have already mentioned them above).