HD Phil versus Kai Comparisons [bodybuilders.gr]

[Jevyzzz]

Plz stahp. you're like bad imitation of stealth + Jevyzzz

often duplacated never replacated

[Jonphinguyen7]

Man I hate the way Kai hit his MM this year. Just strange. He should have stayed with the palms behind the back variation.


Also, his Columbo-Like chest split is absent in this years MM too. Sad

[RoroCwalker]

Look at the first pic. kais stomach is bigger.

The first picture is a BDB.

[lurker519]

I wonder if kai has faced the fact yet that he'll never have an olympia title aslong as phils on stage

[WizardsOfAus]

These are prejudging pics. Phil was off and bloated. Probably from being pissed and and stressed out over kais press conference remarks. I dont care what you guys say. Phil wouldnt use his fathers death to hype the Olympia. Look at the first pic. kais stomach is bigger. Phil beat him prejudging. Killed him in the finals. Phil was sharper top to bottom. Prejudging and finals. I think if Rhoden brings up his back this year kai will drop to third. Rhoden, Wolf and Dex have already beaten him this year. 4th according to Chick who was there.

LMAO. Even Larry Pepe said during the live stream that Phil beat Kai at the pre-judging but Kai closed the gap between them at the finals...just not enough to catch Phil after the prejudging. And that's coming from the biggest Phix nuthugger in the world. So even despite the biggest Phix nuthugger in the world saying this, you insist that Phil killed him in the finals. You're not doing your own credibility any favors by making outlandish comments like that.

Some of the pics in this thread aren't fair to Phil, and some aren't fair to Kai. Instead of looking at a bunch of badly timed pics where they're not hitting their poses at the same time, watch the first callout in this clip. The clip below is from the FINALS and will confirm what I have been saying all along - that Phil beat Kai in all the side poses (side chest, side tri, side relaxed L & R) and the Most Muscular, but Kai won all the other poses.

Note: The last callout in the video is Phil and Kai posing together (without Wolf and Rhoden), but unfortunately the camerawork is so atrocious that we can't get a decent comparison in more than half of the poses, because the camera keeps zooming in on Kai or Phil individually rather than showing us both of them in the same frame. We can get a much better comparison of Kai and Phil in the first callout, where the camera doesn't zoom in quite so often.



You can see that most of the poses are close, but some are not. Kai is beating Phil in the BDB just as clearly as Phil is beating Kai in the most muscular. People are always taking about the "pop" to Phil's muscle, but IMO this only applies to some front poses - most notably the MM. Kai's muscle has more "pop" than Phil in the back poses, particularly the BDB.

[masthead716]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but anybody notice the way Kai is hitting his RLS now? It's like he's not opening his back up all the way because he's received criticism for losing detail in the RLS. It's like he's hitting the shot and then retracting his scapula a little bit to try and add more detail between his traps and he loses a ton of width....that and his most muscular this year were just off. Did he even try and hit that version with his hands behind his back? I liked that last year.

[WizardsOfAus]

I'm sure this has been discussed, but anybody notice the way Kai is hitting his RLS now? It's like he's not opening his back up all the way because he's received criticism for losing detail in the RLS. It's like he's hitting the shot and then retracting his scapula a little bit to try and add more detail between his traps and he loses a ton of width....that and his most muscular this year were just off. Did he even try and hit that version with his hands behind his back? I liked that last year.

Yeah, it's been discussed. The way Kai tweaked his RLS this year is a big improvement IMO, it makes his traps look thicker and gives his back more detail in that pose, at the cost of sacrificing some of his width.

2012


2014





His most muscular he tried to emulate the way Jay and others hit the pose to make himself look wider (because he normally looks narrow next to Phil in the MM)...

2012


As we've seen I think that was a mistake - he make look a bit wider, but he's not flexing his chest properly when he hits the pose like that, so he loses all the detail and striations in his pecs.

[RoroCwalker]

^
I'd like to see Kai go back to his 2009 Mr.O MM.




-His scapula is fully "upwards" and his posture is somewhat upward as well, giving his traps the needed display for them to look balanced.

-His delts will push towards his lats, giving his medial delts a pressure plate, which could help give his delts a broader allure (like when you push your tricep against your body in the ST vs when you let it hang).

-Given his arm position, he'll be able to fully flex he chest, probably causing more striations to appear and give it a thicker look.

-Given the fact that his forearms and hands go inwards in a curl, it'll stretch out his triceps, which will give him a longer "sweep" and make his arms less "stringy".

-The forearm positioning makes it so that his "gap" between his bicep and forearms isn't apparent, which gives a fuller look to the arm, which again, makes it look less stringy.

-His arm positioning completely hides his waist, thus, no "gut" or "wide waist" problems.

-Symmetrical arm positioning, unlike his regular crab, where the left arm(on pictures) is always angled and not only throws off the symmetry of the pose, but also makes that arm more "stringy".

His upper body looks compact, thick, round and wide, the waist disappears, then comes the great legs.

IMO, it's the best way to hit the MM for Kai.

[NVious]

/\ His best MM is IMO the NYP one, even the way he hit it in Prague was better, I really have no idea why he sometimes hits poses in a way that really don't flow with his body or show his weaknesses, Kai of all people should know better.

[masthead716]

/\ His best MM is IMO the NYP one, even the way he hit it in Prague was better, I really have no idea why he sometimes hits poses in a way that really don't flow with his body or show his weaknesses, Kai of all people should know better.

Couldn't agree more with everything said (not bad for a *******), especially the NYP 2011....still my favorite combination of the "old" Kai and the "new" Kai.

I still don't like the way he hit his RLS this year. He's never going to out-detail Phil in that shot....might as well come in shape, and go for width.



To me, this still looks better and more natural...(all due respect to Roro & Wizard you both made good arguments for the new variation of the pose)

[Larfleeze]

looks narrow next to Phil

[stealth_swimmer]

Excuse the lack of organization.

Proportions - No,
Phil's quad sweep is overpowered by his inner thighs, his arms overpower his shoulder, his hamstrings overpower his glutes from the side, his arms overpower his chest in the FLS.

Kai's traps are arguably underpowered in the BDB, and his chest is underpowered some variations of his hands on hips MM.

Definition - Arguably (inclined to agree), they both have distinctive body parts with more definition than the other (legs, back(BDB), FDB for Kai, etc.) (RLS, arms(FDB), glutes, etc.)

Symmetry - Agreed, although, Kai hides it.

Balance - No, we've already talked about that "hides his legs" topic before, and I still stand my point, Kai's legs are perfectly aligned with the structure of the pose, he's not "hiding his legs". Kai doesn't look "top-heavy" in any of his poses, if anything, it would be the other way around.

Striations - No, I have them equally presenting as much striations. (Kai's chest, lats, quads) (Phil's glutes and triceps in the BDB)

Effectiveness of tan - No, Phil has better tan/color (if that's what "tan" is referring to).

Presentation - No, Phil in mandatories? Really? Kai takes Phil in every mandatory except the SC (in terms of posing). Kai takes the posing routines, yes.

Wide shoulders and narrow hip taper - Agreed.

The upper body and lower body should be in proportional - No, both are fairly proportionate in terms of upper/lower body, although, Phil's lack of quad sweep can make him seem out of proportion in some of the front poses, and his side chest when exaggeratedly twisted.

Shoulder caps and vice versa resulting in symmetry - No, Phil's arms do overpower his delts a bit, and no, Kai's delts aren't overpowered in the crab MM, at least, not in the new one.

Lat connection should be low into the waist - Agreed that Kai wins, but I disagree that Phil's back has more detail everywhere in the BDB, only in the RLS.

Thigh sweep with strong development around the knee area - Kai's sweep has better cross striations and is bigger too.

There's no way to "disprove" your disagreements. You're just basically in denial. Kai hides his inner thighs, your comeback is "no, Phil's just got overdeveloped inner thighs"


And lol @ saying Phil's side chest is exaggeratedly twisted - he nails that shot to perfection, which shows his taper better.

[NVious]

Couldn't agree more with everything said (not bad for a *******), especially the NYP 2011....still my favorite combination of the "old" Kai and the "new" Kai.

I still don't like the way he hit his RLS this year. He's never going to out-detail Phil in that shot....might as well come in shape, and go for width.



To me, this still looks better and more natural...(all due respect to Roro & Wizard you both made good arguments for the new variation of the pose)

I think at this point in time, it just doesn't matter.

What it comes down to is that bodybuilding is SO vague, that you really can spin shows in any way. People can make the case that Rhoden or Wolf should've won and they wouldn't really be THAT far off because if you were to judge on criteria XYZ as being weighed 60-70-80% or more, then it's really anyone's show....or anyone that the judges want to give it to.

I.e I don't think anyone denies Heath comes in crisp and super dry, he has better conditioning. How MUCH better is it? I don't think it's THAT superior to Kai and in certain body parts, Kai actually out conditions him. Now people/the judges/fans can spin things like "Oh he won because of better conditioning," well doesn't muscle size count for something? What about v taper? What about width? Kai was the bigger/better flowing/wider bodybuilder and his conditioning was comparable and in certain areas better, so the case can EASILY be made that he should win.

However, reality is reality, nobody has any idea wtf is going on and hey Kai can just do a spin the wheel for how he hits his poses and unless Heath comes in COMPLETELY off (which he won't, he never has, even when he had "food poisoning" he still looked great and if he was the champ and it was him vs Kai, he probably would've gotten the nod), he'll continue to win.

[Deano87]

I feel Kai needs to drop his shoulders in the RLS. They sit above his traps!
That will allow him to keep his width and give him more detail.

[RoroCwalker]

There's no way to "disprove" your disagreements. You're just basically in denial. Kai hides his inner thighs, your comeback is "no, Phil's just got overdeveloped inner thighs"


And lol @ saying Phil's side chest is exaggeratedly twisted - he nails that shot to perfection, which shows his taper better.

I'm not expecting you to disprove them.

In denial of what? What point are you referring to when you say that I'm in denial?

No, you clearly said, and I quote;
"Balance - Phil (Kai hides his legs in some poses, making him look top-heavy)"

You even associated the "comeback" with the wrong point.
My comment about Phil's quads being overpowered by his inner thighs, is referring to the first point (proportion).

Phil nails the SC to perfection? No, he doesn't perform the pose correctly.

There is a clear twist exaggeration, it almost looks like a Side Hand Clasped MM.

I'll quote myself for that;

Now, if we take a closer look;


It's hard to judge, Phil reminds me of the ancient Egyptian art;


It basically became a Side Most Hands Clasped Most Muscular pose.

It's like trying to judge Kuclo's side tricep, with the others;


It also disadvantages Phil because his upper body overpowers his lower body.

[DOC]

As usual it was close between these two, but i dont think kai looked good enough to beat phil, it looked like kai was holding alot of water in those pics. Kai usually displays better glutes/hams and his chest looked like shiat, zero striations for some reason, it looks like he was focusing on on making his traps pop as much as possible but maybe that caused his chest to not contract properly or something im not really sure. With that being said phil didnt look much better(im a huge phil fan) i was actually disapointed with is stomache control, i have a feeling that with his busy personal life and launch of his supp company maybe he tried to compensate his lack of focus/training reg/prep with drugs and it didnt work out so good. Of course that may not be the case but ive never seen his stomache look like that EVER in his whole career then boom there it is all of a sudden. Im not a fan of the way kai acted at the O BUT it worked magic on phils body it was noticiable, phil could barely get his poses out he was so out of breath from the adrenaline dump caused by kai getting in his face and it also made him look shiattier, Phil needs to make sure Kai doesnt get to him next year. I think if kai would have showed up in the kinda of conditioning he had at any number of shows last year he would have won.

[PeterStark]

[Kulutues]

^ lol kai beastmode

[Big Slim DaDDy]

I wonder if kai has faced the fact yet that he'll never have an olympia title aslong as phils on stage

People with champion mindsets don't give up on winning until they die.

[featureless]

What I remember from the footage was that I had phil in front from the beginning of prejudging but kai moved passed him by the end of prejudging. As Kai posed he hardened up and near the end phil had slipped a fair amount.

These photos from prejudging confirm what I was seeing. The break between prejudging and the finals favoured kai more than phil so I see Kai as the overall winner of this show.

[PeterStark]

Pics from the prejudging have a grey stage background, for example:

[letsthrive]

What I remember from the footage was that I had phil in front from the beginning of prejudging but kai moved passed him by the end of prejudging. As Kai posed he hardened up and near the end phil had slipped a fair amount.

These photos from prejudging confirm what I was seeing. The break between prejudging and the finals favoured kai more than phil so I see Kai as the overall winner of this show.

Kai's improvement < Phil's regression, in my opinion.

[featureless]

Kai's improvement < Phil's regression, in my opinion.

Fair enough. I disagree. Phil was struggling to hang with the top 4 at the end. Imo, he was in trouble.

[Jevyzzz]

i find it funny that kai's new RLS isnt even fully spread 2 show more detail but he is just as wide (if not wider) than phillap heath

[Spartacus81]

The first picture is a BDB.

I know this. His stomach is huge in it and side chest. I know you are not going to say his stomach isnt distended in the pic. That thing bulging out. Its not a baby. Its not a turtle shell. What is that thing hanging out Roro? I just think its funny so much has been said about Phils stomach when Kais is distended in poses.

[RoroCwalker]

I know this. His stomach is huge in it and side chest. I know you are not going to say his stomach isnt distended in the pic.

Why would you judge his stomach in a RBD? Why would you use that as a point as to why Phil's physique is superior to Kai's?

[Spartacus81]

Why would you judge his stomach in a RBD? Why would you use that as a point as to why Phil's physique is superior to Kai's?

His distention in poses is ridiculous. You should not be distended while doing a rdb or side chest. His physique is just ugly. Pure and simple. I bet his waist is 34 inches.

[RoroCwalker]

His distention in poses is ridiculous. You should not be distended while doing a rdb or side chest. His physique is just ugly. Pure and simple. I bet his waist is 34 inches.

That still doesn't answer the question.

Why would you put out his stomach in the RDB pose? You can't even see it from a frontal view.

[Spartacus81]

That still doesn't answer the question.

Why would you put out his stomach in the RDB pose? You can't even see it from a frontal view.

So you are saying its fine as long as youre right behind him. Its all good.

[flangmasterj]

So you are saying its fine as long as youre right behind him. Its all good.

Well as long as the judges can't see it then it doesn't matter at all.