Friend wants me to try Vegan

[WonderPug]

I would urge you to not try to emulate an obligate herbivore when you're an omnivore.

[benstuart2519]

Hello,
Why they ask you to do like this, It is hard thing to do. But the final decision is yours.

Best wishes....

[janglingjack]

It can be done, but it will be hard work and require supplementation. You better get used to the taste of Tempah and the like.

And forget about going out for meals.

Cant you just meet him half way and go vegetarian, ie eat eggs and dairy products but no meat/fish.

[Connor1226]

I don't think there's anything wrong with trying a new thing, but I would advise you to take extra caution to get adequate nutrients, especially protein and vitamins/minerals commonly found in animal products. A multivitamin and something like pea protein supplement may be advisable.

The whole notion that only meat and dairy eaters can get adequate amounts of macro and micronutrients is nonsense. It would be REALLY nice if those marketing ploys generated by the meat and diary industries would stop being repeated to an indoctrinated level.
If one were to attempt to go RAW vegan (which is where it's at btw) and be careful about buying too many heavily processed foods to replace dairy and meat, the diet is actually very healthy. The OP likely would be getting a better quality diet than the gigantic majority of America which is over-fat. (Now this site is filled with relatively healthy people who care about nutrition, so can't say the OP's diet would improve with this implementation)

Going vegan is pretty difficult. You will have to really start reading labels of everything you eat. You will find that just about every processed food contains a lot of animal products. Really check all the labels of every condiment, sauce, flavoring, etc. in your fridge and pantry. A lot of ketchups contain beef flavoring, many salad dressings have meat products in them as well (caesar dressing is made with anchovy paste). Most alcohol is off limits too (contain gelatins).
You'd be really shocked to see how much food contains animal products.
It is actually to the extent that there really is not such thing as being vegan. One can only try to limit use but not eliminate use. Medications are a great example. Most have animal products. Even a lot of vitamins and supplements.

If you want to try it, I recommend trying raw vegan, which is almost like a "clean" vegan diet. I wouldn't look to replace a lot of non-vegan foods with heavily processed vegan junk. Because I doubt doing that will make you feel better than you do now lol. So no point in wasting money on that effort.

[NaturaFitness]

Like anything you success with a vegan diet will come down to how determined you are to make it work. The hardest thing for most people is cooking. You will have to cook most of your meals. Start with a few meals and build from there; soup, stir fry, rice. Next is shopping. A vegan diet can be expensive, but it doesn't have to be. Find deals on fresh produce and shop at multiple for the best prices.

You don't need any supplements at all. The only vitamin you may possibly lack is B12 which is now fortified in most soy milks on the market. With the amount of vitamins and minerals you will be getting from fruits and veggies, you will be flying high. I love how people knock vegan/vegetarian diets as being deficient in some way when they consider a serving of veggies as being the lettuce on their burgers or a multivitamin.

As for the protein question. It's not a problem at all. Plant proteins are abundant. There are many forms of soy foods that are great protein sources and taste great. You just need to learn how to cook. Beans, legumes, sprouted lentils are an amazing protein source and provide fiber which meat lacks. Hemp protein comes in a ground up powder you can put in salads, shakes, and cereals for added protein. One ingredient unlike your other powders with 10+ ingredients. Every vegetable you eat has protein in it. It will all add up very quickly to provide what you need to fill your requirement which is a lot lower than what most sources will lead you to believe. 120-150g is plenty. Don't worry about lacking particular amino acids. Complete B.S. With the array of different foods you will be eating it would be nearly impossible to be lacking in EAAs.

[janglingjack]

I recall reading that vegans should supplement with creatine as they will have a lower concentration of this by not eating meat. Is there any truth to this? or is it just another marketing ploy?

[NaturaFitness]

I recall reading that vegans should supplement with creatine as they will have a lower concentration of this by not eating meat. Is there any truth to this? or is it just another marketing ploy?

Garbage. Vegan diets have been around for thousands of years. People have lived 100+ years in amazing health eating vegan diets. I really don't think the Indian Rishis or Buddhist monks were sneaking creatine supps.

[janglingjack]

Garbage. Vegan diets have been around for thousands of years. People have lived 100+ years in amazing health eating vegan diets. I really don't think the Indian Rishis or Buddhist monks were sneaking creatine supps.

I'm talking in terms of bodybuilding.

[NaturaFitness]

I'm talking in terms of bodybuilding.

Personally, I have only gotten better in 2 years. No supplements or anything and have you seen some of those guys? They may not be hyooge but some of them are shredded beyond belief and can do some pretty insane physical feats.

[Mdenatale]

no i feel fine, no real reason.

If you feel fine and have no apparent diet related issues why would you change your diet so significantly? Ever hear the saying if it ain't broke don't fix it?

[janglingjack]

Personally, I have only gotten better in 2 years. No supplements or anything and have you seen some of those guys? They may not be hyooge but some of them are shredded beyond belief and can do some pretty insane physical feats.

fair enough man. Good to hear it's working for you and you're getting results .

I think I could go vegetarian at a push, but the thought of no eggs, or no cheese is the killer for me...

[NaturaFitness]

fair enough man. Good to hear it's working for you and you're getting results .

I think I could go vegetarian at a push, but the thought of no eggs, or no cheese is the killer for me...

Just take baby steps. Start to phase things out over time. Switching to another kind of milk is a big step. Cutting out red meat is a another step. Eating more veggies, etc... Eventually you won't miss anything and if you want eggs or cheese, eat them. You don't have to be a Nazi about it. Do what works for you on your own time and don't label yourself.

[hwa12]

"There's no evidence that definitively shows DHA/EPA supplementation to be necessary or beneficial in the context of sufficient ALA intake"
You still haven't addressed the gap between converting ALA to EPA which we're decent at and converting EPA to DHA which we barely even do. You keep hammering on about ALA being converted to EPA and haven't even addressed DHA. Show me a study showing DHA levels increasing from ALA/EPA/anything other than DHA itself.

The study was referenced although my quote earlier didn't explicitly state this link.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16365063

In all fairness, the study measures DPA which is an intermediary but nonetheless suggestive of ultimate conversion to DHA.


There is plenty of evidence that EPA/DHA supplementation is beneficial by itself, but can you provide any study showing additional benefit of EPA/DHA supplementation in a population taking significant amounts of ALA? The burden of proof is on you for this, not on me, as you're claiming there is a benefit, and I am saying I am not aware of any proof for a benefit in this context.

[KimchiNinja]

Vegan diets have been around for thousands of years.

This is a seriously questionable statement.

[respawn]

Garbage. Vegan diets have been around for thousands of years. People have lived 100+ years in amazing health eating vegan diets. I really don't think the Indian Rishis or Buddhist monks were sneaking creatine supps.

What does creatine sips have to do with being vegan?

[rhadam]

I recall reading that vegans should supplement with creatine as they will have a lower concentration of this by not eating meat. Is there any truth to this? or is it just another marketing ploy?

You'd have a hard time reaching and maintaining saturation even eating meat daily. Supplementation is necessary regardless of diet.

[ironwill2008]

....Negged....

If you want to start negging people for nothing more than a difference of opinion, I can play too.


This isn't the misc............or the 'teen' forum.

[MetilHed]

Did you even bother to peep my links? . . . . . . .


I haven't got the will to read through the first study you linked,

Strong.

[ratemahworkout]

Eat bacon in front of him.

[was500wonder]

Vegans can't get erections because they don't eat enough saturated fat.

[Emma-Leigh]

I work with a lot of vegans, and I have a very 'vegan like' diet too [don't eat red meat or poultry/bird, don't eat cow dairy, don't eat most egg products, don't eat anything with gelatin in it]... For me it is about animal welfare and environmental concerns.

It can be done - and you can have good results.
But, like any restrictive diet (for example, like a competition diet ) - you just have to be careful and monitored in your intake.

Contact me if you want actual answers, and not just ignorant arses answering your question.

[desslok]

I have a very 'vegan like' diet too [don't eat red meat or poultry/bird, don't eat cow dairy, don't eat most egg products, don't eat anything with gelatin in it]... For me it is about animal welfare and environmental concerns.

It can be done - and you can have good results.
But, like any restrictive diet (for example, like a competition diet ) - you just have to be careful and monitored in your intake.

Contact me if you want actual answers, and not just ignorant arses answering your question.

Yeah omnivore is definitely easier to follow . Even vegetarian is easier than vegan. In your case for ethical reasons is a much better reason than a guy named "gainmusclefast" wanting to try a vegan diet for the sole purpose of his "friend" wanting him to try it.

[AFC96]

I don't get why people go vegan, paleo and things like that. Can't they just enjoy the food.

[hwa12]

I don't get why people go vegan, paleo and things like that. Can't they just enjoy the food.

Like Emma said, concerns about animal welfare/environmental sustainability. This I understand.

[AFC96]

Like Emma said, concerns about animal welfare/environmental sustainability. This I understand.

So OP are you concerned about animal welfare/environmental sustainability?

[respawn]

I don't get why people go vegan, paleo and things like that. Can't they just enjoy the food.

You seen the video's on Halal food? Shocking. I will not buy Halal Meat.

[AFC96]

You seen the video's on Halal food? Shocking. I will not buy Halal Meat.

no i havent.. and i wont.. i saw cow getting butchered and it made me stop eating beef for like a few weeks. srs

[respawn]

no i havent.. and i wont.. i saw cow getting butchered and it made me stop eating beef for like a few weeks. srs

Well imagine skinning animals alive and they are still moving with no skin / hide. Imagine hanging a cow by 1 leg and slitting its throat. gouging out their eyes, hacking at them with a knife. Its horrible. NEVER buy Halal food.

[Emma-Leigh]

no i havent.. and i wont.. i saw cow getting butchered and it made me stop eating beef for like a few weeks. srs

If you can't watch it - how can you eat it? Ignorance doesn't remove your part in the act of cruelty - if anything, sticking your head in the sand makes it worse because 'turning a blind eye' just makes you unwilling to take responsibility for your actions...

Factory farming is one level of horror... But I have worked in animal industries and on farms and 'Open range' / 'free range' is still fraught with destruction and cruelty.

The stock is still subject to animal husbandry practices like dehorning (similar to cutting off your fingers where the finger nails start) / musling (removing all the skin from around the rump and peroneum... without anaesthetic), castration (without anaesthetic), and also the shipping process and the horrors of the slaughter house.

'Pasture raised' dairy cows still have their baby calves (when hours old) taken and put into crates where they are fattened up and killed for the vealer market.

'Free Range' chickens are still from hatcheries. And hatcheries still kill all the day old male babies. http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/

[hwa12]

If you can't watch it - how can you eat it? Ignorance doesn't remove your part in the act of cruelty - if anything, sticking your head in the sand makes it worse because 'turning a blind eye' just makes you unwilling to take responsibility for your actions...

Factory farming is one level of horror... But I have worked in animal industries and on farms and 'Open range' / 'free range' is still fraught with destruction and cruelty.

The stock is still subject to animal husbandry practices like dehorning (similar to cutting off your fingers where the finger nails start) / musling (removing all the skin from around the rump and peroneum... without anaesthetic), castration (without anaesthetic), and also the shipping process and the horrors of the slaughter house.

'Pasture raised' dairy cows still have their baby calves (when hours old) taken and put into crates where they are fattened up and killed for the vealer market.

'Free Range' chickens are still from hatcheries. And hatcheries still kill all the day old male babies. http://www.mercyforanimals.org/hatchery/

Other than going vegan, what would you say are ways to address these issues?