My gains are bettere ever since I started adding cheat meals in more often.

[ThemanoftheHour]

"Cheat Meal", what does it define?

We all have heard eating clean all the time is important. "Don't eat that cheeseburger! It will ruin your gains!"

Well recently I started adding foods such as Cheeseburgers, pancakes, ribs and so forth into my diet. Eating normal foods that you may say to yourself " I can't eat that!"

During this time I have even consumed some deep fried Oreos. You could call it a taste test cause I only had three of them but still that is food that most people in the fitness world would want to put a cross of Jesus up to and say It was the Devil!

Well ever since I Started eating this stuff again in moderation, my gains have become greater. My muscles have become bigger. Before you would never catch me eating **** like this. But since I consumed it a few times , I have better results. I look better in front of the mirror and perform better in the gym. 95 % of my diet is still clean though and I put a premium on keeping it that way.

Anyone else ever go through something similar?

[MillerTime07]

You need to re-read the stickies. There is no such thing as clean eating.

[ThemanoftheHour]

You need to re-read the stickies. There is no such thing as clean eating.

I understand that now. Seems like clean eating 100 % of the time is a bunch of bull**** to get the best results. I see people on here posting threads with questions such as "Will a stick of gum hurt my gains?" Or " Will a pizza on Friday night hurt my gains"

**** no it won't! If you are busting your ass in the gym your body needs more than just CHicken and Broccoli once in a while.

[WonderPug]

It seems likely that your "cheat meals" improved your nutrition, as your diet might well have been nutrient deficient and your "cheat meals" might well have provided nutrients lacking in your typical diet.

Anyway, it's important to start learning the basics about nutrition.

To start learning the basics about nutrition, please read the relevant stickies at the top of the nutrition forum as well as this:

COMPOSING A RATIONAL DIET

Advice on diet and nutrition is often based on myths and, even more so, on the marketing message of supplement companies and self-proclaimed diet gurus with agendas contrary to your interests. Please don't allow yourself, your health, your fitness goals or your wallet to be compromised by the prevalent misinformation. Learn the basics of nutrition and start engaging in healthy, rational dietary habits that can last a lifetime.

The first step is to discard biased advice on nutrition and diet, and, in its place, embrace simple logic:

Compose a diet that ensures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency, derived predominantly from whole and minimally processed foods if possible, with remaining caloric intake being largely discretionary within the bounds of common sense.

Caloric Intake

Energy balance is the primary dietary driver of body weight and it also impacts body composition. A chronic surplus of calories will result in increased body weight and a chronic deficit of calories will result in a loss of body weight.

In other words, in order to gain about one pound of tissue weight (as opposed to transient flux in water weight), you need to consume a total of about 3,500 calories more than you expend. And to lose about one pound of tissue weight, you have to do the opposite -- consume about 3,500 calories less than you expend.

Thus, the first step in constructing any rational diet is to get a sense of how many calories per day, on average, you should consume in order to progress towards your goals.

The average number of calories you expend per day -- called total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) -- is a function of your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your average weekly activity level.

To estimate your BMR, it's important to have a sense of how much lean body mass (LBM) you carry. If you're not sure, post a photo or two and we can estimate your percentage body fat and, from this number and your total body weight, it's easy to estimate LBM by using the following formula:

LBM = body weight * (1 - percentage body fat)

To estimate BMR, use the the Katch-McArdle formula:

BMR = 370 + (9.8 * LBM in pounds)
or
BMR = 370 + (21.6 * LBM in kg)

The next step is to estimate average weekly activity using the following guidelines to calculate an activity factor (AF):

• 1.1 - 1.2 = Sedentary (desk job, and little formal exercise, this will be most of you students)

• 1.3 - 1.4 = Lightly Active (light daily activity and light exercise 1-3 days a week)

• 1.5 - 1.6 = Moderately Active (moderately daily Activity & moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

• 1.7 - 1.8 = Very Active (physically demanding lifestyle & hard exercise 6-7 days a week)

• 1.9 - 2.2 = Extremely Active (athletes in endurance training or very hard physical job)

To estimate TDEE (the calories at which you will neither gain nor lose tissue weight), use the following formula:

TDEE = BMR * AF

Now that you've estimated your TDEE, it's important to refine that estimate empirically. To do so, consume an average amount of calories equal to estimated TDEE for two weeks, monitoring weight change. The results will confirm your actual TDEE.

Once you know your actually TDEE, set your caloric intake to match your goals as follows:

To maintain weight, consume an amount of calories equal to TDEE.
To lose weight, consume 10% to 20% less than TDEE.
To gain weight, consume 10% 20% more than TDEE.

Monitor weight change via the scale and also body composition via the mirror and how clothing fits, making adjustments as needed biweekly.


Macronutrient Intake

Ensure that your intake of macronutrients meets sufficiency (as defined below), with remaining macronutrient composition of the diet being largely a function of personal preference.

Ideally, ensure macronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

Protein: ~0.6 to ~0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the highest amount justified by research.

Fat: ~0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation.

Remaining caloric budget: whatever mix of macronutrients you prefer -- as implied by research.

Micronutrient Intake

Take care and use good judgement in food selection and portioning to ensure that micronutrient sufficiency is reached without excessive intake from dietary sources and/or supplements.

As with macronutrient sufficiency, one should ensure micronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

To get a good sense of recommended intake of vitamins and minerals, please review this USDA guidelines webpage.

You'll find the following information particularly helpful:

Intakes: Recommended Intakes for Individuals

RDA and Adequate Intake for Vitamins and Elements

Upper Limit for Vitamins and Elements

Electrolytes and Water

Meal Timing, Composition & Frequency

The number of meals you consume, the timing of those meals and the macro/micronutrient composition of each meal is largely a function of personal preference.

While it might be "optimal" to consume more than one meal per day and less than 5 meals per day, the simple truth is that any difference that directly results from such fine tuning is likely too small to notice even after years of training.

Thus, base your meal timing, composition and frequency on your subjective preference such as to optimize your sense of energy, performance, satiety, palatability, convenience, social/business life and sustainability.

Do not hesitate to very all three factors from day to day as circumstance dictates. In other words, do not become a slave to routine, with inflexibility compromising your quality of life.


Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

What (if anything) you consume before and after your workout does not play a significant direct role in the outcome of your diet, beyond personal preference.

Why? Because what matters in terms of direct impact on outcomes is total daily intake of all nutrients.

Thus, you should optimize based on how you respond to training in a fed or fasted state, and based on your hungry after exercise. In other words, use common sense.


Supplements

Supplements are just that, products that are intended to supplement deficiencies in your diet. If your diet is properly composed then there's no need or unique benefit to using supplements.

If your diet isn't properly composed and, thus, you have deficiencies, try to fix your diet to cure such deficiencies though the consumption of whole and minimally processed foods. If you can't fix your diet, then use the lowest dose supplement(a) needed to cure any remaining deficiencies.

[Mncdk]

I understand that now. Seems like clean eating 100 % of the time is a bunch of bull****

You have still not understood.
There is no such thing as eating clean. Period.

[ThemanoftheHour]

You have still not understood.
There is no such thing as eating clean. Period.

This website would disagree with you. Not saying that in a troll way. Just saying there are numerous articles about it on here.

[bambam601]

the majority of the people here (at least in the nut section) do this.
we just don't refer to them as cheat meals. have you seen the Meals Eating Now thread?
this is nothing new, OP. sorry to burst your bubble.

[WonderPug]

I understand that now. Seems like clean eating 100 % of the time is a bunch of bull**** to get the best results. I see people on here posting threads with questions such as "Will a stick of gum hurt my gains?" Or " Will a pizza on Friday night hurt my gains"

**** no it won't! If you are busting your ass in the gym your body needs more than just CHicken and Broccoli once in a while.

Please stop the stream of nonsense posts.

[MetilHed]

This website would disagree with you. Not saying that in a troll way. Just saying there are numerous articles about it on here.

"This website" is a supplement store, with "articles" designed to part you from your money. You'll rarely, if ever, see any of the experienced posters in the nutrition forum that would use the main site as a source of anything but entertainment.

[loweng4p]

You need to re-read the stickies. There is no such thing as clean eating.

That is such BS, it is not even funny. There is such a thing as clean eating but it is not efficient for a large amount of time. Contest prep - most definitely

[Domicron]

That is such BS, it is not even funny. There is such a thing as clean eating but it is not efficient for a large amount of time. Contest prep - most definitely

Define clean eating

[klaximilian]

Define clean eating

Washing your quinoa with soap and water before boiling to kill any remaining germs.

[Gxp23]

That is such BS, it is not even funny. There is such a thing as clean eating but it is not efficient for a large amount of time. Contest prep - most definitely

Its not meant to be funny because its true. Whats the difference between "clean and dirty" eating then? Most likely you are going to compare two different foods with a large difference in sodium content.

[WonderPug]

That is such BS, it is not even funny. There is such a thing as clean eating but it is not efficient for a large amount of time. Contest prep - most definitely

Wow are you confused.

At least try to learn a bit about nutrition before attempting to answer questions about that subject.

[ThemanoftheHour]

the majority of the people here (at least in the nut section) do this.
we just don't refer to them as cheat meals. have you seen the Meals Eating Now thread?
this is nothing new, OP. sorry to burst your bubble.

I figured. So give me an example of the stuff you have had this week that certain individuals would classify as not clean or "Cheat" meals.

[svli2000]

interesting...I'm going to try that

[Gxp23]

I figured. So give me an example of the stuff you have had this week that certain individuals would classify as not clean or "Cheat" meals.

So far this week I have had, multiple milkshakes, pastries, some candy, biscuits, main meals drenched in high calorie/sodium sauces etc....

Edit: Although I class non of that as a cheat meal.

[ThemanoftheHour]

So far this week I have had, multiple milkshakes, pastries, some candy, biscuits, main meals drenched in high calorie/sodium sauces etc....

Edit: Although I class non of that as a cheat meal.

Makes any guilty thoughts of deep fried oreos go away forever.

[Gxp23]

Makes any guilty thoughts of deep fried oreos go away forever.

Moderation is key, makes having them all the more satisfying.

[ThemanoftheHour]

Moderation is key, makes having them all the more satisfying.

Yeah that was the first time I have ever had them. Didn't eat them all, just 3 of them and then gave the rest to a friend.

What is your definition of Moderation? How often do you treat yourself to a dessert?

[bambam601]

I figured. So give me an example of the stuff you have had this week that certain individuals would classify as not clean or "Cheat" meals.

cookies, ice cream, chips, burgers, fries, hot dogs, pizza, cheesecake.

[WonderPug]

Stop focusing in individual foods. Start focusing on your chronic intake, measured predominantly by energy balance and micro/macronutrient composition, with a focus on whole and minimally processed foods.

[Gxp23]

Yeah that was the first time I have ever had them. Didn't eat them all, just 3 of them and then gave the rest to a friend.

What is your definition of Moderation? How often do you treat yourself to a dessert?

I will have one when I want one, I rarely get a sweet tooth, but when I do, I make room for it in my calorie allowance, and its fine, but like pug has said, you need to focus on your overall intake here and not individual foods. Use some common sense, it goes a long way.

[gabeinphx]

Moderation is key, makes having them all the more satisfying.

Why not just agree that there is a difference. I think you hit the nail on the head. Everything can be part of a clean and healthy diet in moderation, but certain foods overdone can quickly lead to what most would call an unhealthy diet. It took me a while to realize that myself.

[Gxp23]

Why not just agree that there is a difference. I think you hit the nail on the head. Everything can be part of a clean and healthy diet in moderation, but certain foods overdone can quickly lead to what most would call an unhealthy diet. It took me a while to realize that myself.

There is nothing unhealthy about the foods I listed, binging on any food can lead to an unhealthy diet, fat gain, bad eating habits, eating a good variety of foods, regardless of what they are called is key, you just need a pinch of common sense in order to keep things fresh. There is no such thing as a clean diet and there is no such thing as dirty foods, no matter how much you want there to be.

[WonderPug]

Why not just agree that there is a difference. I think you hit the nail on the head. Everything can be part of a clean and healthy diet in moderation, but certain foods overdone can quickly lead to what most would call an unhealthy diet. It took me a while to realize that myself.

FYI: That is true of all foods.

[GrowMacGrow]

^. As Wonderpug says OP, too much of one is never, ever a good thing. Focusing on certain groups of foods can cancel out essential micro and macro nutrients, and even some non-essential properties that the body will utilise to help for areas such in its health and well-being.

[trankwil]

There is nothing unhealthy about the foods I listed, binging on any food can lead to an unhealthy diet, fat gain, bad eating habits, eating a good variety of foods, regardless of what they are called is key, you just need a pinch of common sense in order to keep things fresh. There is no such thing as a clean diet and there is no such thing as dirty foods, no matter how much you want there to be.

I can eat 600 cals of rice or 600 cals of twinkies.
Wouldn't rice be considered clean and twinkies "dirty"?
Wouldn't the twinkies would have a worse effect on your health in regard to nutrition,blood sugar, etc?

[Gxp23]

I can eat 600 cals of rice or 600 cals of twinkies.
Wouldn't rice be considered clean and twinkies "dirty"?
Wouldn't the twinkies would have a worse effect on your health in regard to nutrition,blood sugar, etc?

What do you think the carbs from rice and the carbs from twinkies end up as?

[GrowMacGrow]

What do you think the carbs from rice and the carbs from twinkies end up as?

To be fair, wouldn't a bowl of rice be more beneficial to health with regarding micro-density?

I think what he means is that 'clean' foods refer to micro-density content, while the 'dirty' foods refer to little to no nutrition and/or health benefit for the body. Am i right, OP?

However, for aesthetic and weight purposes it does not matter where your foods come from.......as far as we know it.