Knees are fukd from squatting (with good form) (vid)

[mikay456]

Obviously, I never said there was. However as soon as those quads are recruited the knees have to be driven out to engage the glutes.

A little bit of inward knee movement will happen out of the hole, however you should be pushing out as soon as you can out of the hole.

Agreed. But this was not elaborated to the OP. I didn't want him to be misled.

[theshad31]

keep your toes pointed straighter and drive knees out, this single handedly fixed knee pain when squatting for me, and to the guy who said your knees have to come into recruit your quads is a way off, go watch videos of dave tate explaining squatting.

[illTRON]

I love squatting, but my knees have been giving me issues recently. Just feel unstable and achy. Wut do?

have you tried with knee wraps... unless u have em under you pants...
i only go up to 225lbs without knee wraps after that every weight get wraps

[ahox]

-Get Oly shoes
-don't squat to such extreme depth
-don't dive bomb into the hole
-keep the descent controlled
-invest in knee sleeves to keep the knees warm or light wraps if the pain is really debilitating
-ice knees after every workout and before bed too if you can

edit-most of these suggestions are meant to be temporary solutions as a way to work around knee pain. Many Olympic lifters do the same things that you are doing and have no problems with their knees but since you are having problems, you may want to try out these suggestions so that you can continue lifting.

[308smk]

Agreed. But this was not elaborated to the OP. I didn't want him to be misled.

All good bro. However in my experience, the majority of newer lifters have significant technique breakdown under load, and their knees are going to cave inwards regardless, so the cue still stands as reasonable.

[308smk]

OP what's your budget?

Oly shoes should be the first thing you buy.

[CanardLaque]

Wrong.

wrong as in it's more stressful or wrong as in it's the same amount of stress?

[mikay456]

keep your toes pointed straighter and drive knees out, this single handedly fixed knee pain when squatting for me, and to the guy who said your knees have to come into recruit your quads is a way off, go watch videos of dave tate explaining squatting.

You should watch some of the videos in this thread. The first page has a video of a couple chinese lifters. Watch their knees go in at first. Then watch my vid with an established coach. Even the mighty Dan Green knows what's up with knee position. What I'm saying bro, is don't take it from me, take it from these guys.

I guarantee every maximal squat that you did to depth, your knees came in. That's not a form breakdown. That's how you naturally get out of the hole.

[308smk]

wrong as in it's more stressful or wrong as in it's the same amount of stress?

More stressful
http://www.wannabebig.com/forums/thr...uld-squat-deep
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/sh...&postcount=825

Lots of info in there.

[theshad31]

You should watch some of the videos in this thread. The first page has a video of a couple chinese lifters. Watch their knees go in at first. Then watch my vid with an established coach. Even the mighty Dan Green knows what's up with knee position. What I'm saying bro, is don't take it from me, take it from these guys.

I guarantee every maximal squat that you did to depth, your knees came in. That's not a form breakdown. That's how you naturally get out of the hole.

fair enough of your video with an established coach whose explained it before but to say that just cause some Chinese lifters do it the rest of the population of the world can is a little off. For OP, a guy who probably doesn't spend a lot of time in a position of squatting other than the once or twice a week that he squats positioning turns into a bigger key, there's tons of factors that could play a role, as someone already mentioned it could simply just mean warming up more to loosen the joint, could be more mobility in hips and ankles to induce less shear stress.

also to your point of maximal squat, I'm sure my legs have come in a little in the ascent, but if this is happening on a non maximal squat in my opinion you may have a problem here.

just to clarify, it's hard to watch olympian's squat with what would be considered (by some) slight "off" form because these guys are typically freaks of nature, while other people's body's may crumble trying to perform a squat in the same mechanical manner.

[Duckyy]

i'm taking a break from squats and leg presses this week to let my knees heal. i can feel it getting better. i'm using this whole week, maybe next too.

when you rub the top of your knee, do you feel like any bruise?

[308smk]

fair enough of your video with an established coach whose explained it before but to say that just cause some Chinese lifters do it the rest of the population of the world can is a little off. For OP, a guy who probably doesn't spend a lot of time in a position of squatting other than the once or twice a week that he squats positioning turns into a bigger key, there's tons of factors that could play a role, as someone already mentioned it could simply just mean warming up more to loosen the joint, could be more mobility in hips and ankles to induce less shear stress.

also to your point of maximal squat, I'm sure my legs have come in a little in the ascent, but if this is happening on a non maximal squat in my opinion you may have a problem here.

just to clarify, it's hard to watch olympian's squat with what would be considered (by some) slight "off" form because these guys are typically freaks of nature, while other people's body's may crumble trying to perform a squat in the same mechanical manner.

I've already explained what OP's issue is in posts #35+#38. Also go read/watch the video with Dan Green in post #63.

[theshad31]

I've already explained what OP's issue is in posts #35+#38. Also go read/watch the video with Dan Green in post #63.

your fix for OP was telling him to go waste money on shoes he doesn't need?

[308smk]

your fix for OP was telling him to go waste money on shoes he doesn't need?

He can either buy shoes and fix it immediately and be able to squat frequently without pain, or he can work on mobility for 6 months and maybe be able to squat properly.

There's a reason why all oly weightlifters wear them. If you want to squat like them, then you should see what they're doing and emulate that. That's called a clue.

[theshad31]

He can either buy shoes and fix it immediately and be able to squat frequently without pain, or he can work on mobility for 6 months and maybe be able to squat properly.

There's a reason why all oly weightlifters wear them. If you want to squat like them, then you should see what they're doing and emulate that. That's called a clue.

if it takes you 6 months to improve your mobility then you need to improve the ways you're working on your mobility. I get there is a reason olympic weightlifters wear them I am not trying to say they're useless. However i say why mask a problem rather than fix it.

[donbooger]

Your video doesnt show it but make sure your knees follow your toe line, valgus stress while squatting even if not extreme can wear down your knees over time. Work on getting the flexibilty to have a nice wide stance AND have your knees able to comfortably follow your toe line(important to not just force it, this can lead in injury, get the lower body flexibility required for wide stance from the hips to your feet).

You can squat with some really atrocious quality knees this way.

[308smk]

if it takes you 6 months to improve your mobility then you need to improve the ways you're working on your mobility. I get there is a reason olympic weightlifters wear them I am not trying to say they're useless. However i say why mask a problem rather than fix it.

They don't mask the problem, they fix it. His squat will be bang on afterwards. There is no need to squat atg in flat shoes. They're a performance enhancer, which is why the large majority of competitive lifters who have the requirement of going below parallel in the squat wear them.

[mikay456]

fair enough of your video with an established coach whose explained it before but to say that just cause some Chinese lifters do it the rest of the population of the world can is a little off. For OP, a guy who probably doesn't spend a lot of time in a position of squatting other than the once or twice a week that he squats positioning turns into a bigger key, there's tons of factors that could play a role, as someone already mentioned it could simply just mean warming up more to loosen the joint, could be more mobility in hips and ankles to induce less shear stress.

also to your point of maximal squat, I'm sure my legs have come in a little in the ascent, but if this is happening on a non maximal squat in my opinion you may have a problem here.

just to clarify, it's hard to watch olympian's squat with what would be considered (by some) slight "off" form because these guys are typically freaks of nature, while other people's body's may crumble trying to perform a squat in the same mechanical manner.

The OP seems set on doing oly squats. He already squats deep and he was convinced to get romaleos. He shouldn't listen to dave tate. Dave tate doesn't oly squat. If OP pushes his knees out reversing out of the hole he will prob strain his hips.

What is prob causing his knee pain is more of him doing a weird hybrid oly/pl squat without proper footwear and perhaps wraps.

[GetHimABodyBag]

You call me an idiot, and other names, but you don't even know how the hamstrings operate.

The hamstrings reach their maximum length at just below parallel. At that point, they are primed for the stretch reflex, to bring you back up (along with your quads and other muscles that I won't get into here) to a standing position.

When you go ATG, your hamstrings shorten from it's most stretched out position at just below parallel. Even if you believe that ATG squats are superior for some reason, this is an anatomical fact. When you go up from an ATG squat, you involve your quads, and practically no hamstring.

The hips and hamstrings get you out of the hole in a high bar ATG squat, after about parallel is when it is quads.

[QuarterRepCurls]

308smk is hitting everything on the head, everyone is is spewing broscience out of their ass.

buy a pair of adidas or nike weightlifting shoes. don't go cheap. they're like $170-200 but well worth the investment considering the shoes will have a lifespan of 5 or more years
rehband are good sleeves to use, i have a pair of them myself, but i prefer to use normal 3" ace bandaging found at Walmart for like $8.

[nekkidbear]

In the second video you can see that his heels come up a little, which means his weight is not on his heels. Squats like that put stress 20x your bodyweight on your patella and patellar tendon, and that is bodyweight squats without the added weight on your back. This leads to wear on the cartilage of your patella and can lead to lateral patellar tracking, which leads to knee problems down the line. Try sitting back a little more, don't go quite so low (parallel, not ATG), and don't let your knees go in front of your toes or dip in.

This... most likely what is causing knee pain. Very subtle but it's happening. So technically your form isn't perfect. Oly shoes or work on your hip and ankle mobility. There is plenty of info out there as to how to help with this. Also, watch this video.

Also watch and read this
http://bretcontreras.com/a-better-wa...ut-in-a-squat/

[308smk]

Holy **** guys. This isn't rocket surgery.

Watch the first video, now pause it when he's in the hole. Look at the position of the bar compared to the hip/knee/ankle. The bar should be directly in line with his center of gravity, and if you draw a straight line it should go right through his ankles. Notice how the bar isn't there, its too far back. Now imagine what happens in you raise his heels up? Holy **** guise, the bar would be directly over the ankles and there would be a nice vertical bar path over his center of gravity, with the hamstrings and quads and hips working properly instead of being all ****ed up. Boom no more squat or knee problem.

BUY THE ****ING OLY SHOES

[WeDoPullups]

I'm having some dull pain closer to the bottom of my kneecap....especially when I keep it bent for a few seconds.

I high bar squat and run quite a bit. I feel like my form is on point but I do get cocky and rush out of the hole sometimes. Looks like I'll need to slow it down.

I also squat in NB minimus shoes....they're basically vibrams without the ****gy toes. Could these be a problem?

[308smk]

I'm having some dull pain closer to the bottom of my kneecap....especially when I keep it bent for a few seconds.

I high bar squat and run quite a bit. I feel like my form is on point but I do get cocky and rush out of the hole sometimes. Looks like I'll need to slow it down.

I also squat in NB minimus shoes....they're basically vibrams without the ****gy toes. Could these be a problem?

Show squat form video. Also, you better not be doing long distance running.

[WeDoPullups]

Show squat form video. Also, you better not be doing long distance running.

I do lol. I'm training for a certain job so I'm swimming and running a bit with calisthenics/weight training. I take msm, fish oil and celadrin for joints and I still get pain.

I'll try to post a video up tomorrow.

[308smk]

I do lol. I'm training for a certain job so I'm swimming and running a bit with calisthenics/weight training. I take msm, fish oil and celadrin for joints and I still get pain.

I'll try to post a video up tomorrow.

What shoes are you wearing for the long distance running? How firm are they? Do you wear any knee support or compression while running? How much epa/dha per day are you getting from the fish oil?

[chyeah420]

OP needs to get himself an SS haircut that should help

[WeDoPullups]

What shoes are you wearing for the long distance running? How firm are they? Do you wear any knee support or compression while running? How much epa/dha per day are you getting from the fish oil?

nb minimus mt10's. no knee support and rarely wear compression shorts. 2 tabs of fish oil = 370mg EPA and 230mg DHA and I take 3-4 a day so just about double that.

[Jeremy544]

get knee sleeves



I have to wear them whenever I squat (even just bodyweight) so my knees don't hurt. mirin your squat though. wish I could go that low.

[308smk]

nb minimus mt10's. no knee support and rarely wear compression shorts. 2 tabs of fish oil = 370mg EPA and 230mg DHA and I take 3-4 a day so just about double that.

Consider getting a set of light compression sleeves, not as heavy as a lifting sleeve, just something to keep the knee warm and tracking properly. Consider ditching the minimalist running shoe and going with something that absorbs more of the impact. Also, you're not getting anything from the fish oil at that dose. Try to get 3 grams EPA and 2 grams DHA every day. Split it up between meals rather than all at once.

Will also need squat form video to diagnose that.