Intermediate/Advanced Routine - Revision 1

[MaNIaXC]

i need an advice,i just finished my week 5 heavy workout,it wasnt really easy but not extremely hard,i finished all the exercises but on some of them i needed a few seconds of rest from rep 8-9 to finish,after finishing this week 5 should i add weight or play it "safe" and repeat the first cycle again so i wouldnt need those few seconds to rest to complete the exercise?

wrong thread mate ! all pros made ur eyes sore ??

[icedawg]

However, I can't help but think that by abstaining from hi intensity cardio that I am missing out on an important aspect of fitness and health. This routine might be somewhat close, but I don't think it is as good as HIIT for cardiovascular health. Outside of squats and deadlifts, I really don't feel like my heart-rate jumps that high for a long enough period of time, same for my breathing, as say, a full-out 30 sec sprint.

Having said that, I definitely agree that cardio is pointless for fat-burning purposes. I mean, unless your joints can't handle the stress of HIIT or weight-lifting, I see no point in doing long cardio unless it is some activity that you find to be fun and enjoy doing outside of the health benefits. I still don't think that weight-lifting can completely replace HIIT for cardiovascular health..

Yeah I have the same concern. I love the routine, but I don't think it alone does enough in terms of improving CRF (cardio-respiratory fitness). I'm by no means an expert, but I am a family medicine resident, so I do have some training. I haven't decided what to do about it though b/c the routine is already pretty time-demanding. I may try doing the routine on the weekdays and some cardio on the weekends.

[Kelei]

kelei, do you have any thought about this new supplements bio gro?
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/isatori/bio-gro.html

i need your opinion. is their claim true? or just scam?

Waste of money.

Kelei what are your favorite supplements?

- Creatine monohydrate
- Desiccated liver
- Vitamin D3
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone)
- DHA
- Magnesium

On a side note, what's your opinion on EC?

Not a fan, it messes with the nervous system.

Yeah I have the same concern. I love the routine, but I don't think it alone does enough in terms of improving CRF (cardio-respiratory fitness). I'm by no means an expert, but I am a family medicine resident, so I do have some training. I haven't decided what to do about it though b/c the routine is already pretty time-demanding. I may try doing the routine on the weekdays and some cardio on the weekends.

Assuming you're active in general I don't think you need to go out of your way to specifically train for cardiorespiratory fitness. My resting heart rate is in the low 50's which indicates a high level of cardiorespiratory fitness, especially considering my weight.

[ThatOneLurker]

- Creatine monohydrate
- Desiccated liver
- Vitamin D3
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone)
- DHA
- Magnesium

No multi?

Why the Vitamin K2 and Magnesium?


Isn't there enough magnesium in Rice provided that's where most of one's carbohydrate intake comes from?

[Kelei]

No multi?

Why the Vitamin K2 and Magnesium?


Isn't there enough magnesium in Rice provided that's where most of one's carbohydrate intake comes from?

Vitamin K2 strengthens bones, prevents calcification of soft tissues (arteries, tendons etc) and it helps protect against heart disease and cancer. It also supports general health in probably 1000 ways I won't even beign to start listing.

Vitamin K comes in several forms:

- Vitamin K1 (phylloquinone) is the plant form, it's pretty much useless.
- Vitamin K2 (menaquinones) is the animal form.

There are several subforms of vitamin K2 although MK-4 (menatetrenone) is the best.

Magnesium is required for heart health, bone health and it also reduces insulin levels, a magnesium deficiency increases insulin resistance. It also helps prevent muscle cramps/spasms.

White rice doesn't contain enough magnesium and switching to brown rice is pointless because the extra phytic acid present in brown rice binds to magnesium and prevents it from being absorbed. Magnesium absorption from plant foods in general is quite poor.

Mineral supplements should always be in amino acid chelated form, anything else is poorly absorbed.

[STROM12]

Hey Kelei/other's, I have a question.

Lately I have been getting sick every so often, most recently three times in the past 6-7 weeks. I got a few fevers, a throat bacterial infection, stomach issues, migraines etc.. I was wondering if this could be related to anything I may be lacking in my diet or if there is a possibility this could be in relation to over training? I have not taken a deload while being on your workout program, the old routine and current revised one.. id say I have been doing both for about six months. 6-7 days a week in the gym, with basketball about two evenings a week as well.

My diet currently consists of 3-4 eggs per day, 1 cup Brown rice, 2-4 pieces of whole wheat bread w/ peanut butter, 1/2 cup oatmeal, chicken breast,tuna, apple, banana, broccoli, frozen vegetables, cold cereal, protein shake. I am 5"10, about 180'ish, 13%? body fat. I should also point out that I take a pre workout supp everytime I go to the gym, It's called Powder Burn, made my RIVAL-US. My mom/girlfriend seem to belive that maybe this pre-workout supplement has weakened my immune system. If anyone could give there input on what may be causing my health problems, please weigh in. I am sure I am probably leaving something left out.

[lefteris7]

I've heard that Liver supplements come from the worst parts of the animals (bones etc.)

So it's safe to assume that you don't take fish oil? Just DHA. Why is that? Shouldn't there be a balance between epa and dha?

[fingolfin34]

Thanks to all for contributing such helpful information. Your experience is valuable.

[MichielN]

- Creatine monohydrate
- Desiccated liver
- Vitamin D3
- Vitamin C
- Vitamin K2 (menatetrenone)
- DHA
- Magnesium

1. Do you still believe that supplementing DHA is unneccesary if we eat 6 eggs per day?

2. Can't you get enough vitamin K2 from eggs? (and meat, milk, butter and hard cheese?)

If not, which ones do you recommend?

[Kelei]

Hey Kelei/other's, I have a question.

Lately I have been getting sick every so often, most recently three times in the past 6-7 weeks. I got a few fevers, a throat bacterial infection, stomach issues, migraines etc.. I was wondering if this could be related to anything I may be lacking in my diet or if there is a possibility this could be in relation to over training? I have not taken a deload while being on your workout program, the old routine and current revised one.. id say I have been doing both for about six months. 6-7 days a week in the gym, with basketball about two evenings a week as well.

My diet currently consists of 3-4 eggs per day, 1 cup Brown rice, 2-4 pieces of whole wheat bread w/ peanut butter, 1/2 cup oatmeal, chicken breast,tuna, apple, banana, broccoli, frozen vegetables, cold cereal, protein shake. I am 5"10, about 180'ish, 13%? body fat. I should also point out that I take a pre workout supp everytime I go to the gym, It's called Powder Burn, made my RIVAL-US. My mom/girlfriend seem to belive that maybe this pre-workout supplement has weakened my immune system. If anyone could give there input on what may be causing my health problems, please weigh in. I am sure I am probably leaving something left out.

Your diet looks low in zinc, a zinc deficiency will weaken your immune system. Brown rice, whole wheat bread and oatmeal all contain high levels of phytic acid which binds to zinc and prevents your body from absorbing it. Chicken and tuna are quite low in zinc.

I think a zinc supplement might help you, around 20-30 mg per day in amino acid chelated form and perhaps 2-3 mg of copper which is required to keep your zinc/copper ratio in balance. For example:

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Ch...?ic=3&flt=0000
http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Chelated...?ic=1&flt=0000

Take 1 tablet of each per day, preferably during or directly after a meal, don't take copper on an empty stomach or it'll make you feel nauseated.

I've heard that Liver supplements come from the worst parts of the animals (bones etc.)

So it's safe to assume that you don't take fish oil? Just DHA. Why is that? Shouldn't there be a balance between epa and dha?

Desiccated liver is made from liver, people have been eating liver for at least tens of thousands of years. I don't take regular fish oil, it contains too much EPA which interferes with AA metabolism.

EPA is anti-inflammatory, if you suffer from joint pain or severe aches and pains in general I recommend 2-3 grams of regular fish oil per day, this will help dampen the pain without interfering with AA metabolism excessively.

1. Do you still believe that supplementing DHA is unneccesary if we eat 6 eggs per day?

2. Can't you get enough vitamin K2 from eggs? (and meat, milk, butter and hard cheese?)

If not, which ones do you recommend?

The DHA content of eggs can vary, I think it's better to be on the safe side and still take a DHA supplement just in case. You want a supplement that's high in DHA and low in EPA, for example:

http://www.iherb.com/Natrol-DHA-500-...?ic=1&flt=0000

Take 1 every second day, this averages out to 250 mg of DHA per day which is plenty, especially if you're also eating eggs.

I take the following vitamin K2:

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Vi...?ic=1&flt=0000

I take 1 capsule per week, this is more than enough.

[MichielN]

Much appreciated.

Last question (lol): I understand the role copper plays in cross linking elastine and collagen. You explained earlier why dividing vitamin C throughout the day is beneficial to constantly replenish tissue stores (which deplete vitamin C when using it for collagen I believe?). Does it work the same way with copper, or can you just take the desiccated liver tabs all at once?

Not that it matters I think, just asking out of curiosity. I'm currently taking 500mg vit C and 2 liver tabs with breakfast, dinner and before bed time.

[gingersgym]

Kelpie what you think of orange triad multi vit?

What I currently take

[Kelei]

Much appreciated.

Last question (lol): I understand the role copper plays in cross linking elastine and collagen. You explained earlier why dividing vitamin C throughout the day is beneficial to constantly replenish tissue stores (which deplete vitamin C when using it for collagen I believe?). Does it work the same way with copper, or can you just take the desiccated liver tabs all at once?

Not that it matters I think, just asking out of curiosity. I'm currently taking 500mg vit C and 2 liver tabs with breakfast, dinner and before bed time.

Vitamin C needs to be spread but copper doesn't.

Kelpie what you think of orange triad multi vit?

What I currently take

Looks fine except the zinc/copper ratio is a little unbalanced and the magnesium content is a little low. Retinol is a better source of vitamin A compared to carotenes and vitamin K2 is better than K1. A few other minor issues such as binding zinc to citric acid rather than an amino acid.

I've never found what I consider to be an ideal multi, perhaps I should just design/make my own lol.

[gingersgym]

Vitamin C needs to be spread but copper doesn't.

Looks fine except the zinc/copper ratio is a little unbalanced and the magnesium content is a little low. Retinol is a better source of vitamin A compared to carotenes and vitamin K2 is better than K1. A few other minor issues such as binding zinc to citric acid rather than an amino acid.

I've never found what I consider to be an ideal multi, perhaps I should just design/make my own lol.

Hha may aswell make some money in something you know about!

would you suggest dropping the orange triad and just supplementing a few key vitamins like in your list?

thanks

[Effrum]

I've never found what I consider to be an ideal multi, perhaps I should just design/make my own lol.

^ Would buy.

Thanks for all of your input about vitamins and nutrition Kelei, it's incredibly helpful.

[ThatOneLurker]

Hha may aswell make some money in something you know about!

would you suggest dropping the orange triad and just supplementing a few key vitamins like in your list?

thanks

In4 answers. Currently taking OT as well.

[STROM12]

Your diet looks low in zinc, a zinc deficiency will weaken your immune system. Brown rice, whole wheat bread and oatmeal all contain high levels of phytic acid which binds to zinc and prevents your body from absorbing it. Chicken and tuna are quite low in zinc.

I think a zinc supplement might help you, around 20-30 mg per day in amino acid chelated form and perhaps 2-3 mg of copper which is required to keep your zinc/copper ratio in balance. For example:

Take 1 tablet of each per day, preferably during or directly after a meal, don't take copper on an empty stomach or it'll make you feel nauseated.

Thank you sir, I will pick up both very soon. Very much appreciated

[lefteris7]

Kelei, I might start taking accutane. I don't know if you have any experience with this drug, but do you know if I need to make any adjustments to your program if I decide to hop on accutane. (like lower the volume, or even buy a joint supp)

[MichielN]

Kelei, I might start taking accutane. I don't know if you have any experience with this drug, but do you know if I need to make any adjustments to your program if I decide to hop on accutane. (like lower the volume, or even buy a joint supp)

Don't take that lol, it's very bad stuff

[lefteris7]

Yeah I know, I actually got the prescription like 3 months ago, and I have 4 boxes of accutane sitting in my shelf. I postponed it a lot because im afraid of the side effects.

I have terrible backne and quite a lot face cystic acne.


My last resort is a keto diet, which I will try very soon. If that doesn't work, I'll have to take accutane.


By the way, will I run into any problems if i do keto and your routine kelei?

[klaximilian]

Yeah I know, I actually got the prescription like 3 months ago, and I have 4 boxes of accutane sitting in my shelf. I postponed it a lot because im afraid of the side effects.

I have terrible backne and quite a lot face cystic acne.


My last resort is a keto diet, which I will try very soon. If that doesn't work, I'll have to take accutane.


By the way, will I run into any problems if i do keto and your routine kelei?

A high demand of glycogen stores for a glycogen-demanding routine on a glycogen-depleted diet doesn't exactly sound like a recipe for success. I was tempted to do keto for my cut before taking on Kelei's program. I'm guessing your performance on keto+kelei's routine is not going to go well.

[lefteris7]

A high demand of glycogen stores for a glycogen-demanding routine on a glycogen-depleted diet doesn't exactly sound like a recipe for success. I was tempted to do keto for my cut before taking on Kelei's program. I'm guessing your performance on keto+kelei's routine is not going to go well.

Doesn't the body create glycogen from fats when it enters ketosis? So if what I said is correct, that would mean that only the adjusting period would be hard.

[Kelei]

would you suggest dropping the orange triad and just supplementing a few key vitamins like in your list?

thanks

I think if your diet contains mostly unprocessed foods and a sufficient variety of different foods you most likely don't require a multi, instead you should target a few key nutrients and supplement those individually, fill in the gaps so to speak.

My last resort is a keto diet, which I will try very soon. If that doesn't work, I'll have to take accutane.

By the way, will I run into any problems if i do keto and your routine kelei?

For most people around 80-100 grams of carbs per day will induce ketosis, the lower your carbs go the deeper into ketosis you'll go. You could try a ketogenic diet but you'll need to reduce your training volume to minimal levels, perhaps you could perform your first set of each exercise followed by 2 rest-pause sets.

Eating too much protein can throw you out of ketosis due to excess glucose being produced via gluconeogenesis so you don't want to go overboard with your protein intake either.

I think something like 200 grams of protein, 30 grams of carbohydrate and the rest of your calories coming from fat will work well, this will allow you to induce moderate ketosis.

Doesn't the body create glycogen from fats when it enters ketosis? So if what I said is correct, that would mean that only the adjusting period would be hard.

Not exactly, when fat is broken down the leftover glycerol is converted into glucose although even at maximal rates of fat burning your body can only produce around 20 grams of glucose from glycerol per day.

[ThatOneLurker]

I think if your diet contains mostly unprocessed foods and a sufficient variety of different foods you most likely don't require a multi, instead you should target a few key nutrients and supplement those individually, fill in the gaps so to speak.

I already take

5000 iu of vitamin D
1500-2500mg of vitamin C
4-6 Desiccated liver tablets
and 1 DHA softgel every two days

I'm going to incorporate a magnesium and vitamin K2 supplement and drop the multi.

Do you think I should get a zinc supplement as well in this case?

[Kelei]

I already take

5000 iu of vitamin D
1500-2500mg of vitamin C
4-6 Desiccated liver tablets
and 1 DHA softgel every two days

I'm going to incorporate a magnesium and vitamin K2 supplement and drop the multi.

Do you think I should get a zinc supplement as well in this case?

I can't tell without seeing your diet, if you eat plenty of red meat you most likely don't need a zinc supplement.

[64509chvl]

I already take

5000 iu of vitamin D
1500-2500mg of vitamin C
4-6 Desiccated liver tablets
and 1 DHA softgel every two days

I'm going to incorporate a magnesium and vitamin K2 supplement and drop the multi.

Do you think I should get a zinc supplement as well in this case?

This is currently right where I'm at right now...along with magnesium & zinc, minus the DHA & K2 as this is new to me. I dropped the OT about 4 months ago. Been using all these supps for about 5 months now I think...had my blood pulled a month ago & all my levels that would be effected by these supps were all right where they should be. My D was just slightly over the high range so I dropped it down a tad. I took this suggestion from Kelei a way back & it did well! I was hoping it would as a package boost my test levels naturally, but it didn't. Atleast everything else is in a good range!

[ThatOneLurker]

I can't tell without seeing your diet, if you eat plenty of red meat you most likely don't need a zinc supplement.

I follow most of your dietary advice. Plenty of rice, milk and eggs. Most of my meat is red meat but I'd say I eat a moderate amount of red meat a day. Anywhere from 1/2 lb to 1 lb of ground beef per day.

Would the additional zinc provide any benefit?


Edit: 5 cups of milk
1 cup of oatmeal
5-6 scoops of peanut butter
7-10 cups of cooked rice per day
6 egg yolks per day

The rest is whatever my mother made.

[Kelei]

Anywhere from 1/2 lb to 1 lb of ground beef per day.

That's plenty of red meat, you don't need a zinc supplement.

[tazmanpa]

Your diet looks low in zinc, a zinc deficiency will weaken your immune system. Brown rice, whole wheat bread and oatmeal all contain high levels of phytic acid which binds to zinc and prevents your body from absorbing it. Chicken and tuna are quite low in zinc.

I think a zinc supplement might help you, around 20-30 mg per day in amino acid chelated form and perhaps 2-3 mg of copper which is required to keep your zinc/copper ratio in balance. For example:

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Ch...?ic=3&flt=0000
http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Chelated...?ic=1&flt=0000

Take 1 tablet of each per day, preferably during or directly after a meal, don't take copper on an empty stomach or it'll make you feel nauseated.

Desiccated liver is made from liver, people have been eating liver for at least tens of thousands of years. I don't take regular fish oil, it contains too much EPA which interferes with AA metabolism.

EPA is anti-inflammatory, if you suffer from joint pain or severe aches and pains in general I recommend 2-3 grams of regular fish oil per day, this will help dampen the pain without interfering with AA metabolism excessively.

The DHA content of eggs can vary, I think it's better to be on the safe side and still take a DHA supplement just in case. You want a supplement that's high in DHA and low in EPA, for example:

http://www.iherb.com/Natrol-DHA-500-...?ic=1&flt=0000

Take 1 every second day, this averages out to 250 mg of DHA per day which is plenty, especially if you're also eating eggs.

I take the following vitamin K2:

http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-Vi...?ic=1&flt=0000

I take 1 capsule per week, this is more than enough.

Kelei would you recommend one of the liver supplements from that site?

[Kelei]

Kelei would you recommend one of the liver supplements from that site?

I take these:

http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Desiccat...-Tablets/11320