Jimmy Moore Nutritional Ketosis Lecture

[Meni]

What if you can't afford the absurd price of grass fed beef, can you just supplement with Omega 3 fish oils?

buy leaner cuts of beef, the less fat, the less bad fat (corn fed cow fat)

[WonderPug]

buy leaner cuts of beef, the less fat, the less bad fat (corn fed cow fat)

Ugh.

This is just so wrong.

[Meni]

Ugh.

This is just so wrong.

i'm talking about HEALTH, the corn fed cows have omega 6 rich FAT, BAD., so why gobble up omega 3 to hope to get the ratio to a good number?
just don't eat that type of fat.

If he can't afford grass fed, then eat meat with less FAT, he can get his good fats from mct or coconut oil
good luck eating corn fed cows, with the 1:20 omega 3 to omega 6 ratio

I eat keto for health just as much as "looks" grass fed is for the omega 3 to 6 ratio.

[WonderPug]

Beef is fine, even if it's not grass fed. But lean beef is, arguably, less "fine" than fatty cuts of meat, even if corn fed and industrial farmed.

[Meni]

Beef is fine, even if it's not grass fed. But lean beef is, arguably, less "fine" than fatty cuts of meat, even if corn fed and industrial farmed.

WonderPug I'm talking about being healthy, so first here' John Meadows

Originally published on July 23, 2010
Several months ago I sat in front of a nurse at my place of work after she received my report on my cholesterol, triglyceride levels and blood pressure. I work at a Bank, and it’s pretty cool that they offer free cholesterol screening and all kinds of other nice benefits. Anyways, she looked very puzzled. She was comparing my results from 2 years prior, to my most recent results. She finally blurted out “what did you do to improve this profile so much.” My answer nearly floored her.

Well Nancy, I started:

Cooking in virgin coconut oil, and grass-fed butter
I also switched out all the store bought grain fed beef I was consuming with grass fed beef I procure from a local farmer. I eat 8 ounces every single day.
I switched out my 99-cent a dozen eggs with true organic free range eggs, and eat 6 of these whole every single day.
Lastly (and probably most importantly), I reduced refined sugars in my diet and foods that contain excessive levels of Omega 6 Polyunsaturated fats (bye bye Tostitos – dang corn oil), as I believe those things create arterial inflammation resulting in increased cholesterol levels. Cholesterol is an anti-oxidant and repair agent in your body.
I knew what her next question would be, “but isn’t all that saturated fat bad?” I said well you tell me, my cholesterol went from 212 down to 167. My HDL went up 11 points (something I struggled with for years), and my LDL and Triglyceride levels were at the bottom end of the range. Even my blood pressure was a startling 104/70. She finally asked if I had any reading material I recommended, as these concepts were not taught to her in her days of studying health and nutrition.

So why do I mention that story? Well, the diet that I recommend usually freaks people out initially, but it’s rooted in sound science and facts, and not influenced by flawed studies funded by companies with ulterior motives. Most people have always heard and believe in the “Lipid Hypothesis.” This is the outdated theory that saturated fat and cholesterol intake increases cholesterol levels in the blood, which increase your chance of heart disease. This theory is simply not true, as long as the saturates are of a certain type, and the cholesterol is not oxidized. You have to accept that to fully embrace the Mountain Dog Diet.

I have formulated this diet based on a few things.

Mentorship with Dr Eric Serrano. Eric is revered in the athletic community as a top expert in training, nutrition, rehabilitation and many other things. Eric has been a big influence on me and a great mentor.
The teachings of the Weston A. Price Foundation. A fantastic resource for correct nutritional information can be found at the Weston A. Price foundation’s website www.westonaprice.org. It’s a not-for-profit organization with no hidden agendas, and one of the most brilliant Lipid Experts in the country, Mary Enig, has written numerous articles we could all benefit from on it. If you go to this website and spend a few hours on it, you will thank me for recommending it. I’ll be referencing this site many times over in this article.
Personal experience. I have competed in 30 bodybuilding contests, that I can remember, won 13 of them, and placed in six of nine pro qualifying national level events. Experience is a great teacher, and you have to know when to make adjustments in diets, and what to do, for the best results. As solid as the Mountain Dog diet is, it can still only take you to a certain point. Only experience can get you past that.


and now here: http://www.eatwild.com/healthbenefits.htm
Summary of Important Health Benefits of Grassfed Meats, Eggs and Dairy

Lower in Fat and Calories. There are a number of nutritional differences between the meat of pasture-raised and feedlot-raised animals. To begin with, meat from grass-fed cattle, sheep, and bison is lower in total fat. If the meat is very lean, it can have one third as much fat as a similar cut from a grain-fed animal. In fact, as you can see by the graph below, grass-fed beef can have the same amount of fat as skinless chicken breast, wild deer, or elk.[1] Research shows that lean beef actually lowers your "bad" LDL cholesterol levels.[2]

Because meat from grass-fed animals is lower in fat than meat from grain-fed animals, it is also lower in calories. (Fat has 9 calories per gram, compared with only 4 calories for protein and carbohydrates. The greater the fat content, the greater the number of calories.) As an example, a 6-ounce steak from a grass-finished steer can have 100 fewer calories than a 6-ounce steak from a grain-fed steer. If you eat a typical amount of beef (66.5 pounds a year), switching to lean grassfed beef will save you 17,733 calories a year—without requiring any willpower or change in your eating habits. If everything else in your diet remains constant, you'll lose about six pounds a year. If all Americans switched to grassfed meat, our national epidemic of obesity might diminish.

In the past few years, producers of grass-fed beef have been looking for ways to increase the amount of marbling in the meat so that consumers will have a more familiar product. But even these fatter cuts of grass-fed beef are lower in fat and calories than beef from grain-fed cattle.

Extra Omega-3s. Meat from grass-fed animals has two to four times more omega-3 fatty acids than meat from grain- fed animals. Omega-3s are called "good fats" because they play a vital role in every cell and system in your body. For example, of all the fats, they are the most heart-friendly. People who have ample amounts of omega-3s in their diet are less likely to have high blood pressure or an irregular heartbeat. Remarkably, they are 50 percent less likely to suffer a heart attack.[3] Omega-3s are essential for your brain as well. People with a diet rich in omega-3s are less likely to suffer from depression, schizophrenia, attention deficit disorder (hyperactivity), or Alzheimer's disease.[4]

Another benefit of omega-3s is that they may reduce your risk of cancer. In animal studies, these essential fats have slowed the growth of a wide array of cancers and also kept them from spreading.[5] Although the human research is in its infancy, researchers have shown that omega-3s can slow or even reverse the extreme weight loss that accompanies advanced cancer and also hasten recovery from surgery.[6,7]

Omega-3s are most abundant in seafood and certain nuts and seeds such as flaxseeds and walnuts, but they are also found in animals raised on pasture. The reason is simple. Omega-3s are formed in the chloroplasts of green leaves and algae. Sixty percent of the fatty acids in grass are omega-3s. When cattle are taken off omega-3 rich grass and shipped to a feedlot to be fattened on omega-3 poor grain, they begin losing their store of this beneficial fat. Each day that an animal spends in the feedlot, its supply of omega-3s is diminished.[8] The graph below illustrates this steady decline.

When chickens are housed indoors and deprived of greens, their meat and eggs also become artificially low in omega-3s. Eggs from pastured hens can contain as much as 10 times more omega-3s than eggs from factory hens.[9]

It has been estimated that only 40 percent of Americans consume an adequate supply of omega-3 fatty acids. Twenty percent have blood levels so low that they cannot be detected.[10] Switching to the meat, milk, and dairy products of grass-fed animals is one way to restore this vital nutrient to your diet.

The CLA Bonus. Meat and dairy products from grass-fed ruminants are the richest known source of another type of good fat called "conjugated linoleic acid" or CLA. When ruminants are raised on fresh pasture alone, their products contain from three to five times more CLA than products from animals fed conventional diets.[11] (A steak from the most marbled grass-fed animals will have the most CLA ,as much of the CLA is stored in fat cells.)

CLA may be one of our most potent defenses against cancer. In laboratory animals, a very small percentage of CLA—a mere 0.1 percent of total calories—greatly reduced tumor growth. [12] There is new evidence that CLA may also reduce cancer risk in humans. In a Finnish study, women who had the highest levels of CLA in their diet, had a 60 percent lower risk of breast cancer than those with the lowest levels. Switching from grain-fed to grassfed meat and dairy products places women in this lowest risk category.13 Researcher Tilak Dhiman from Utah State University estimates that you may be able to lower your risk of cancer simply by eating the following grassfed products each day: one glass of whole milk, one ounce of cheese, and one serving of meat. You would have to eat five times that amount of grain-fed meat and dairy products to get the same level of protection.

Vitamin E. In addition to being higher in omega-3s and CLA, meat from grassfed animals is also higher in vitamin E. The graph below shows vitamin E levels in meat from: 1) feedlot cattle, 2) feedlot cattle given high doses of synthetic vitamin E (1,000 IU per day), and 3) cattle raised on fresh pasture with no added supplements. The meat from the pastured cattle is four times higher in vitamin E than the meat from the feedlot cattle and, interestingly, almost twice as high as the meat from the feedlot cattle given vitamin E supplements. [14#] In humans, vitamin E is linked with a lower risk of heart disease and cancer. This potent antioxidant may also have anti-aging properties. Most Americans are deficient in vitamin E.

Eating moderate amounts of grass-fed meat for only 4 weeks will give you healthier levels of essential fats, according to a 2011 study in the British Journal of Nutrition.

The British research showed that healthy volunteers who ate grass-fed meat increased their blood levels of omega-3 fatty acids and decreased their level of pro-inflammatory omega-6 fatty acids. These changes are linked with a lower risk of a host of disorders, including cancer, cardiovascular disease, depression, and inflammatory disease.

Interestingly, volunteers who consumed conventional, grain-fed meat ended up with lower levels of omega-3s and higher levels of omega-6s than they had at the beginning of the study, suggesting that eating conventional meat had been detrimental to their health.

British Journal of Nutrition (2011) Red meat from animals offered a grass diet increases plasma and platelet N-3 PUFA in healthy consumers. Volume 105, pages 80-89.

[WonderPug]

^^^ Wow, that's a load of total crap.

It's so sad that some people lack sufficient knowledge and thus are victimized but such extreme misinformation.

[Meni]

^^^ Wow, that's a load of total crap.

It's so sad that some people lack sufficient knowledge and thus are victimized but such extreme misinformation.

yes John Meadows is misinformed? I'm not going to get into a pissing match with someone who posts 40 times a day on a board.
when do you lift?

[WonderPug]

yes John Meadows is misinformed?

Please tell me you're not as naive as your post implies.

[Meni]

Please tell me you're not as naive as your post implies.

I'm done, I piss on boards with strangers. I'll listen to Meadows, and Kiefer, and Robb Wolf, and Dave Asprey, over you.

[mattvdh]

Is there a means of calculating a CHO level to activity level within the keto diet?

I'm following the fairly standard intake allowance, hovering between 30g and 50g of carbs a day, though exercise with both moderate and high intensity 3-5 days a week. While I'm doing just fine with the amount of carbs I've been eating, keto is just as restrictive a diet as I expected it to be, and anything that would enable more flexibility in any way would be helpful.

Wouldn't it simply just be 4 cals x each gram of carbs? It's almost a non-concern at 120-150 calories a day, you'll burn that off in no time.

[mattvdh]

buy leaner cuts of beef, the less fat, the less bad fat (corn fed cow fat)

No, that's sort of missing the point, the keto diet is all about the fats. The reason you'd want to eat grass fed beef is because of the more balanced ratio of omega 3's to 6's. Anyway, I just thought if I ate the cheaper corn fed beef and combine it with an omega 3 fish oil it would be sort of the same end result.

[mattvdh]

i'm talking about HEALTH, the corn fed cows have omega 6 rich FAT, BAD., so why gobble up omega 3 to hope to get the ratio to a good number?
just don't eat that type of fat.

If he can't afford grass fed, then eat meat with less FAT, he can get his good fats from mct or coconut oil
good luck eating corn fed cows, with the 1:20 omega 3 to omega 6 ratio

I eat keto for health just as much as "looks" grass fed is for the omega 3 to 6 ratio.

That's correct. I guess I'll just supplement!

[ramid3]

with carbs consumed only with fat and where your sources of carbs are just things like fibrous vegetables.

And what if my source of my either 30g or 60g of carbs a day comes from, say, white rice? Does it matter, provided I stay within my daily allowance, or does something like rice generate a counter-productively sharp insulin response?

Also, I was going to create a separate thread for this, though I don't think it's worthy of one, and can probably be addressed rather quickly right here:
I'm having trouble understanding why fat is so heavily emphasized in the keto diet. If it's emphasized as an energy source, why wouldn't your existing body fat suffice without having to consume more of it?

[WonderPug]

And what if my source of my either 30g or 60g of carbs a day comes from, say, white rice? Does it matter, provided I stay within my daily allowance, or does something like rice generate a counter-productively sharp insulin response?

If your CHO intake is exclusively or even predominantly from white rice, it would strongly imply an acute micronutrient deficiency in your diet, which of course is very bad.

As for the impact on nutritional ketosis, that depends primarily on load and context -- how much is consumed at once and what the rest of your meal contains.

Keep in mind that, with very low CHO intake, it's usually protein that causing the largest rise in plasma insulin levels, which is partly why the diet should be only moderate in protein with total daily dose divided across several meals, assuming your goal is lowest peak insulin response.

[mattvdh]

If your CHO intake is exclusively or even predominantly from white rice, it would strongly imply an acute micronutrient deficiency in your diet, which of course is very bad.

As for the impact on nutritional ketosis, that depends primarily on load and context -- how much is consumed at once and what the rest of your meal contains.

Keep in mind that, with very low CHO intake, it's usually protein that causing the largest rise in plasma insulin levels, which is partly why the diet should be only moderate in protein with total daily dose divided across several meals, assuming your goal is lowest peak insulin response.

Well you can just supplement with a MV, but I'm starting to crave rice or oat not for the carbs or MN but the fiber. Man I've been backed up big time lately on the keto diet. These psyllium husks are just not cutting it. It works if I pound back like 6 of them but it's actually quite painful on the stomach, it's a sharp type of pain. I'm missing my morning oats, it used to really do the job.

What are you guys doing for fiber, I'm eating about 2 cups of greens a day, and of course the psyllium but it's not cutting it(?).

[WonderPug]

Well you can just supplement with a MV.

Please tell me you're joking?



My presumption is that you're diet is just terrible.

[mattvdh]

What's wrong with supplementing with a MV? Nah, I eat pretty well, like I said I eat about 2-3 cups of greens a day. A salad full of kale and romaine has almost everything you need that you can't get from eggs or beef.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/2461/2

[WonderPug]

What's wrong with supplementing with a MV? Nah, I eat pretty well, like I said I eat about 2-3 cups of greens a day. A salad full of kale and romaine has almost everything you need that you can't get from eggs or beef.

That's incorrect.

If that's all the plant matter you're consuming, then your diet is terribly deficient in micronutrients.

[ramid3]

WonderPug: so are whey shakes ill-advised while on keto, or those with a particular amino profile? My diet currently derives roughly a third- sometimes half- of its protein from whey isolate shakes, due to taking one both pre and post workout, as well as one upon waking up.

Is the rapid absorption actually working against me by causing sharp insulin spikes?

[Chaohinon]

i'm talking about HEALTH, the corn fed cows have omega 6 rich FAT, BAD., so why gobble up omega 3 to hope to get the ratio to a good number?
just don't eat that type of fat.

If he can't afford grass fed, then eat meat with less FAT, he can get his good fats from mct or coconut oil
good luck eating corn fed cows, with the 1:20 omega 3 to omega 6 ratio

I eat keto for health just as much as "looks" grass fed is for the omega 3 to 6 ratio.

You're correct about the dangers of excessive o6, but beef isn't even on the radar. Even with the crappiest, grain-feddest beef out there, it's so predominately sat & mono that o6 is not an issue. It's more of a problem with chickens and pigs, but still not that big of a deal.

As long as you steer clear of corn/canola/soybean/cottonseed/"vegetable" oils, don't eat more than a handful of nuts a day, and either take fish oil or eat plenty of fatty fish, O6 is not something you need to worry about.

[Meni]

No, that's sort of missing the point, the keto diet is all about the fats. The reason you'd want to eat grass fed beef is because of the more balanced ratio of omega 3's to 6's. Anyway, I just thought if I ate the cheaper corn fed beef and combine it with an omega 3 fish oil it would be sort of the same end result.

Do each his own, you could eat more coconut oil for good fat, I eat 80% fat, a lot is mct and coconut

[mattvdh]

That's incorrect.

If that's all the plant matter you're consuming, then your diet is terribly deficient in micronutrients.

I'm getting plenty of MNs. I eat 4 eggs with cheese in the morning with a MV, then for dinner I'll have some sort of meat fried in coconut oil with 2 full servings of greens tossed in butter. Then I'll snack on some more greens later on in the day and maybe some peanut butter. I also eat a handful of omega 3's as well. Might seem low in cals, but remember I'm cutting.

kale, broccoli, brussel sprouts, asparagus, green beans...you're getting everything in there. My psyllium husks have calcium as well.

What am I lacking? I'm pretty sure I have all bases covered. Eggs/meat=b's, greens=a,c,d,e,k, supplements=omega3/f and calcium. MV=http://www.jamiesonvitamins.com/node/131

[mattvdh]

Do each his own, you could eat more coconut oil for good fat, I eat 80% fat, a lot is mct and coconut

I agreed with you in the following post, where you had the right idea.

[Meni]

I agreed with you in the following post, where you had the right idea.

you wanna laugh check my posts from 2002, i was high protein, lower carb, and fats from Udo Choice Blend, some "perfect" oil blend back in 2002.
sure 290 grams of protein probably meant I wasted protein and turned a bunch to glucose but i was in my best shape, ripped 162

[DustyChicago]

Jimmy has been so great for me since I started on my own low carb journey, and has tipped me to so many other people I go to for advice.

Also, I bought a chest freezer and a side of grassfed beef... if you averaged the cost, its was about what grain-fed cost at the supermarket. But I'm lucky to have the capital to buy all that ahead of time.

[mattvdh]

you wanna laugh check my posts from 2002, i was high protein, lower carb, and fats from Udo Choice Blend, some "perfect" oil blend back in 2002.
sure 290 grams of protein probably meant I wasted protein and turned a bunch to glucose but i was in my best shape, ripped 162

Yeah sure, that diet could work, I'm not disputing that. But if we're talking keto foods, lean cuts of meat isn't the right idea.

[mattvdh]

Jimmy has been so great for me since I started on my own low carb journey, and has tipped me to so many other people I go to for advice.

Also, I bought a chest freezer and a side of grassfed beef... if you averaged the cost, its was about what grain-fed cost at the supermarket. But I'm lucky to have the capital to buy all that ahead of time.

Yeah Jimmy's a good guy, if he could just tone down the dorkiness I'd probably have more respect for him.

[Meni]

Yeah sure, that diet could work, I'm not disputing that. But if we're talking keto foods, lean cuts of meat isn't the right idea.

I'd rather eat 95% lean corn fed beef and 2 tbsp mct oil over 80% lean corn feed beef.
for the health reasons.

[mattvdh]

I still don't see your point. Saturated fats are healthy and the point of the keto diet. The only fats you have to concern yourself with are trans fats and imbalanced ratios of O6:03, but if you're supplementing O3 then it doesn't really matter. Personally I don't like chewing on the fat just because it's like chewing on a condom, but I don't avoid it for 'health' reasons.

[Meni]

I still don't see your point. Saturated fats are healthy and the point of the keto diet. The only fats you have to concern yourself with are trans fats and imbalanced ratios of O6:03, but if you're supplementing O3 then it doesn't really matter. Personally I don't like chewing on the fat just because it's like chewing on a condom, but I don't avoid it for 'health' reasons.

how much omega 3 you taking a day? if ratio should be 1:3 and your beef is 1:20 ???? plus I don't even trust many fish oil supplments, I buy Carlson's and it costs money.

I don't see why putting so many omega 6 in your body, then hoping your omega 3 is enough for a good ratio.