AllPro: A Simple Beginner's Routine part IIII

[StrongPost]

I'm about to start my 2nd cycle and the 3 day a week just seems like very little to me. Like I'm going to be gaining a lot of fat from not working out 4-5x per week. Is 3 days really enough?

I'm bulking btw

[Rubadubs]

Go out and smash it.

That goes for Ulfit also.

Thanks, looking forward to the new weights and lower reps should everything go to plan!

[cubaboymatt1316]

I'm about to start my 2nd cycle and the 3 day a week just seems like very little to me. Like I'm going to be gaining a lot of fat from not working out 4-5x per week. Is 3 days really enough?

I'm bulking btw

There's a lot of science needed to explain why (anabolism, protein synthesis, hypertrophy, micro-tears, etc), but it's much easier to just say yes. Working out 3x a week is absolutely enough to effectively create an anabolic environment that can efficiently utilize an appropriate caloric surplus that promotes muscle growth.

Of course, there are other factors as well. Getting enough protein, carbs, sleep, and water are all vital to the "perfect" anabolic enviornment, too.

Anecdotal evidence, of course, but I've been bulking for ~8 weeks and I've put on about 4 lbs so far (aside from the initial 3 lbs of glycogen stores refilling (water weight)). According to my caliper measurements, 3.5 lbs have been muscle and .5 lbs have been fat. Which is the exact amount of each I need to maintain 13% BF. If I keep this up for 6 months, it would absolutely perfect.

[Rubadubs]

I'm about to start my 2nd cycle and the 3 day a week just seems like very little to me. Like I'm going to be gaining a lot of fat from not working out 4-5x per week. Is 3 days really enough?

I'm bulking btw

Gaining/losing weight is all about diet. Eat above your maintenance calories and you will gain weight, eat below and you will lose weight. If you don't want to gain too much fat whilst bulking then I'd suggest slow bulking, approx 200 - 300 calories above maintenance. If you want to eat 500+ cals above maintenance then throw in some cardio on your off days (though not immediately before heavy day).

The three days per week lifting is due to the fact that this is a full body routine, i.e. it hits most core muscles in your body, and it does that 3 times per week. When you think about it, training each muscle 3 times per week is a higher frequency than most 4/5 day routines, which target smaller muscle groups and train them twice a week. It takes advantage of the smaller recovery times required by beginners and only allows 1 day rest, opposed to the 4/5 day splits which give 2 days rest. If you are training all muscles 4/5 times a week you will burn out fast.

[StrongPost]

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense. I guess I'm just used to when I had a 5 day split and did a ton of isolation exercises for each muscle. I'm sticking with this routine for at least a year though for sure.

Also, regarding the SLDL, which form is right?

I've seen nothing but contradictory posts about it.

Bar touching body or bar away from body?
Which is better for lower back health?

[DannyGDesigns]

Yep, include the weight of the bar. In the US, a standard 7' Olympic bar weighs 44lbs.

Im in the UK and at my gym there is 2 different barbells so I have no idea of the weight. why does the weight of the barbell matter if all my calculations are without barbell weight surely its still the same?

[Rubadubs]

Im in the UK and at my gym there is 2 different barbells so I have no idea of the weight. why does the weight of the barbell matter if all my calculations are without barbell weight surely its still the same?

You will be cheating yourself out of adding more weight each cycle.

For ease, lets say you are lifting 100kg, which on a 7ft olympic barbell is a 20kg bar and 80kg of weight. If you passed test day you would be increasing the total weight by 10%, so you would be on 110kg total. This is 90kg plus the 20kg bar.

By your calculation, you would be adding 10% to the 80kg on the bar which you count, which moves you up to 88kg. Add the weight of the bar (20kg) and you get to 108kg, which is lighter than the weight you'd be on if you included the bar in your calculation. It doesn't sound like a great difference but when rounding up/down it could be.

[Rubadubs]

Thanks for the reply, that makes sense. I guess I'm just used to when I had a 5 day split and did a ton of isolation exercises for each muscle. I'm sticking with this routine for at least a year though for sure.

Also, regarding the SLDL, which form is right?

I've seen nothing but contradictory posts about it.

Bar touching body or bar away from body?
Which is better for lower back health?

For SLDL, I lift with the bar slightly away from the body, a slight bend in the legs and never placing the weight on the floor - I really feel it in my hamstrings this way. Always tense your core to keep your back straight, and keep your head up to stop your back from rounding. If I could link (not enough posts), I'd link you to AnthropoidApe's posts in this thread, #4430 and #4435 a couple of pages back which give video explanations of the correct form to use.

[DannyGDesigns]

You will be cheating yourself out of adding more weight each cycle.

For ease, lets say you are lifting 100kg, which on a 7ft olympic barbell is a 20kg bar and 80kg of weight. If you passed test day you would be increasing the total weight by 10%, so you would be on 110kg total. This is 90kg plus the 20kg bar.

By your calculation, you would be adding 10% to the 80kg on the bar which you count, which moves you up to 88kg. Add the weight of the bar (20kg) and you get to 108kg, which is lighter than the weight you'd be on if you included the bar in your calculation. It doesn't sound like a great difference but when rounding up/down it could be.

Thanks that makes sense, I will try find out the weight of the bar

[Rubadubs]

Thanks that makes sense, I will try find out the weight of the bar

No probs - for reference:

7ft Olympic Bar - 20kg
6ft Olympic Bar - 15kg
EZ Curl Bar - Around 6-7kg

[padfoots666]

If those are your lifts in lbs, I don't see a reason why you're cutting. There is no muscle to cut to. Unless you're overweight which I don't think I see in your avi, you're holding your progress back.

I want to cut because I've got some belly fat. Currently I'm somewhere between 18-20% bodyfat. Or do you think I should just eat more? Will it help me lift the heavier weights?

[ButchManly]

Hey, new user here. I've been working out with my own "programs" for over a year now, and I have decent results. I really want to try something new. Can someone please tell me I'm a fool for thinking that I know better than the pros, that I am not going to get "out of shape" by doing this program instead of my own, and that I have nothing to lose since my program is probably **** and probably not even 1/2 as good as this one?

Just newbie worries.

[cubaboymatt1316]

Hey, new user here. I've been working out with my own "programs" for over a year now, and I have decent results. I really want to try something new. Can someone please tell me I'm a fool for thinking that I know better than the pros, that I am not going to get "out of shape" by doing this program instead of my own, and that I have nothing to lose since my program is probably **** and probably not even 1/2 as good as this one?

Just newbie worries.

A good program needs 3 things, IMO:

- The right amount of volume for the trainee. Too much volume could lead to overtraining/stalling/injury and too little volume may not adequately stimulate growth. This program has the right amount of volume for beginner trainees assuming you use the proper starting weight for each exercise.

- Programmed, systematic progression. Too many programs out there, including "bro splits" have the loose plan of "adding more weight when you can". That's not good enough for a lot of people; it's way too vague. This plan has programmed, systematic progression. There's no guess work about when you should add weight or reps...it's all in the program.

- Balanced workload for the body. This routine is made up of the big 5 (or variations of) compound lifts (Squat, Bench, OHP, ROW, and DL) that hit just about every muscle group in the body. It also has a couple isolation exercises in it (assuming you stick with Calf Raises and Bicep Curls) to ensure the muscles not directly hit in the big 4 still get worked. If you put in multiple cycles with this program, it'll be very strange if you come out with an unbalanced physique.

If you look at some of the other popular workouts out there for beginners (namely SS, SL 5x5, and ICF 5x5), they have most of these qualifications as well. Perhaps your homemade bro split has them as well. This routine isn't inherently "better" than any of them, nor any "worse"; however, it is a good program that meets the qualifications for a program to work for a beginner.

Nutrition, rest, intensity, consistency ....all those things are important factors in you succeeding, and the program can't help with those.

[delanceyj]

I start C2W3 tomorrow. Thinking of adding upright rows along with the curls to the routine. Where in the routine should they go?

[AnthropoidApe]

I start C2W3 tomorrow. Thinking of adding upright rows along with the curls to the routine. Where in the routine should they go?

They overlap to a degree, and upright rows are an "official" alternative to curls on this program. Me, I would put upright rows in place of the curls and add a set of a more isolated curl (eg preacher curls) at the end, after calf press. Or do upright rows instead of curls, and then add pull-ups or lat pulldowns, which also work the biceps pretty hard - this is what I do.

If you want to do both, then it would probably be best just to add a single set of upright rows to the end of the program.

FWIW All Pro recommends stopping upright rows so that your elbows and shoulders are in a flat line, which is to say lifting the bar only to about the level of the bottom of your pecs. Higher is said to be a bit of a shoulder killer, and not in a good way.

[olinolin]

Today is the first day of week 3 (cycle 1) for me. I'm liking the program but I don't want to wait until week 6 (cycle 2 week 1) before adding weight. I'm thinking on week 4, I'm going to try mixing the 12 and 11 rep sets. Meaning, my 2 working sets for each exercise on week 4 will be 12 reps for the first set and 11 reps for the second set. If I'm able to do all those reps then I'm going to skip week 5 and go to cycle 2. Turns it into a 4 week cycle program.

Can always switch back to 5 weeks if I think I'll need to in cycle 2.

[Rubadubs]

Cycle 1 Test Day went to plan, progressed on all lifts. I would have been disappointed if I'd failed any so early, I guess it would have meant that I'd chosen the wrong starting weights. My lifts have progressed as follows (weights in kg):

Squat: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)
Bench: 35 -> 37.5 (roughly 85lbs)
Row: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)
OHP: 15 -> 20 (roughly 45lbs)
SLDL: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)
Curl: 15 -> 20 (roughly 45lbs)
Calf Raise: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)

Went up by more than 10% on Curl and OHP. On Cycle 1 I wasn't strong enough to curl or press the olympic bar (20kg). So increasing by 10% from 15kg would have put me on 16.5kg. Seeing as though my gym only has dumbbells in increments of 2kg (that would be 4kg increase per cycle), or fixed barbells in increments of 5kg I could have chosen 16kg or 20kg. I felt pretty good today doing both exercises so I've decided to increase by 33%, or 5kg (this could catch up with me I know, and I'm fully prepared to fail cycle 2 for both these exercises). This means I can now use the olympic bar for both these exercises, and I can start increasing in increments of 2.5kg using the 1.25kg plates.

I did have a slight concern, not sure if any of you have felt the same. I feel that my grip strength will be the limiting factor in SLDL. I was barely able to keep hold of the bar on my 9th+ rep on the second cycle today, even though my hamstrings and back felt good. It will probably increase with practice, but if any of you have encountered the same I'd be keen to know how you coped?

[Ulfit]

Seems like you and I are at the same stage, my Cycle 1 Test Day is tomorrow too. Good luck, we're gonna smash it!

Thanks! GL!

Hi, I'm a beginner, I've been lifting for 3 months (shortcut to size) but I was at caloric deficit (was overweight and had to aim for a lower bodyfat % first) so I haven't gained much muscle(if any at all) but just increased in strength and coordination slightly.

(5' 10" ; 140 lbs ; bb bench press: 22 lbs on each side)

The question is, now that I want to start gaining some muscle mass using this program, can I workout 4 days instead of 3?

No. This program is 3 days plus 2 non-lifting days for cardio (preferably HIIT) for all the reasons stated on previous posts.
It's very important to respect the structure of the program, especially the rest days.

Go out and smash it.

That goes for Ulfit also.

Thanks!

No probs - for reference:

7ft Olympic Bar - 20kg
6ft Olympic Bar - 15kg
EZ Curl Bar - Around 6-7kg

Nice input!

[AnthropoidApe]

I did have a slight concern, not sure if any of you have felt the same. I feel that my grip strength will be the limiting factor in SLDL. I was barely able to keep hold of the bar on my 9th+ rep on the second cycle today, even though my hamstrings and back felt good. It will probably increase with practice, but if any of you have encountered the same I'd be keen to know how you coped?

That has come and gone for me over my cycles. I think that it is more severe later in a cycle as it's partly connected to the number of reps, not just the sheer weight. So you can probably expect it to be fine next week.

Note that this program is working your grip strength pretty hard so it will improve with everything else.

[Womble619]

starting a cut and want to continue all pros, I hear all pros is pretty ok on a cut aswell. Well I had heavy day while on my first week of cut and it kicked my azz.. I was thinking, what do you guys think about doing a refeed (eat at maintenance) they same day or day before heavy day? do you think that would help or be beneficial?

[AnthropoidApe]

starting a cut and want to continue all pros, I hear all pros is pretty ok on a cut aswell. Well I had heavy day while on my first week of cut and it kicked my azz.. I was thinking, what do you guys think about doing a refeed (eat at maintenance) they same day or day before heavy day? do you think that would help or be beneficial?

It's pure broscience man, but I sometimes eat pizza Sunday night purely because Monday is heavy day. I don't know if it really helps or not. Hitting your macros is clearly crucial on a cut; are you getting plenty of protein daily?

[FitnessFan76]

Test day today, and this week I'm adding some running back into my schedule - only two ten minute runs per week to start with. My CV fitness has gone out of the window since I stopped running, and I want to get back to the level where I could run 5k easily, 10k with a bit of a push, and 15k if going all out. The treadmill just won't do it for me, neither will any other cardio machine. Besides, I'd used numerous cardio machines in the past and not one of them improved my CV fitness to the levels that running did. So running will probably be done on Tuesday & Thursday/Saturday.

[Womble619]

It's pure broscience man, but I sometimes eat pizza Sunday night purely because Monday is heavy day. I don't know if it really helps or not. Hitting your macros is clearly crucial on a cut; are you getting plenty of protein daily?

yeah I believe so, I am getting about 180-220g on the daily, lowest I ever drop to is like 160 on a "bad protein" day lol. I just feel like I need a plate of pasta and cheese extra before heavy day just to give me that drive, I miss my massive plate of pasta and cheese

[olinolin]

Ended up doing 11 reps today for all exercises on week 3 day 1 cycle 1. This way, as long as I hit all my reps nexts week, I can do this with a 4 week cycle instead of 5 and progress faster.

Failed on my 2nd set on bench tho (only got 8 reps) so that has me a bit worried. I think I really need to post a video doing bench to get advice as it's easily my weakest lift and I'm sure I'm ****ing it up.

[Ulfit]

Cycle 1 Test Day went to plan, progressed on all lifts. I would have been disappointed if I'd failed any so early, I guess it would have meant that I'd chosen the wrong starting weights. My lifts have progressed as follows (weights in kg):

Squat: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)
Bench: 35 -> 37.5 (roughly 85lbs)
Row: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)
OHP: 15 -> 20 (roughly 45lbs)
SLDL: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)
Curl: 15 -> 20 (roughly 45lbs)
Calf Raise: 45 -> 50 (roughly 110lbs)

Went up by more than 10% on Curl and OHP. On Cycle 1 I wasn't strong enough to curl or press the olympic bar (20kg). So increasing by 10% from 15kg would have put me on 16.5kg. Seeing as though my gym only has dumbbells in increments of 2kg (that would be 4kg increase per cycle), or fixed barbells in increments of 5kg I could have chosen 16kg or 20kg. I felt pretty good today doing both exercises so I've decided to increase by 33%, or 5kg (this could catch up with me I know, and I'm fully prepared to fail cycle 2 for both these exercises). This means I can now use the olympic bar for both these exercises, and I can start increasing in increments of 2.5kg using the 1.25kg plates.

I did have a slight concern, not sure if any of you have felt the same. I feel that my grip strength will be the limiting factor in SLDL. I was barely able to keep hold of the bar on my 9th+ rep on the second cycle today, even though my hamstrings and back felt good. It will probably increase with practice, but if any of you have encountered the same I'd be keen to know how you coped?

Good to see you managed to go through your test without any major problems.

As for the grip, it will develop along the way, do not worry much about that. If you think it can help, maybe some straps (is this the correct word?) could help. But, IMHO, 50 kgs are not enough to give you that kind of problems. You will develop some grip strength as you progress.
On the mean time, you can try to alternate your hands position. One faced to the front, the other to the back. I don't know the term for this hands positioning, sorry. I've used it before with RDL and I'm using now for SLDL as well.

[Ulfit]

Ended up doing 11 reps today for all exercises on week 3 day 1 cycle 1. This way, as long as I hit all my reps nexts week, I can do this with a 4 week cycle instead of 5 and progress faster.

Failed on my 2nd set on bench tho (only got 8 reps) so that has me a bit worried. I think I really need to post a video doing bench to get advice as it's easily my weakest lift and I'm sure I'm ****ing it up.

My first advise would be not to skip weeks. The program is structure this way for many reasons. Speeding your progress one week may, eventually, make you lose more than that in the future.

[Ulfit]

It's pure broscience man, but I sometimes eat pizza Sunday night purely because Monday is heavy day. I don't know if it really helps or not. Hitting your macros is clearly crucial on a cut; are you getting plenty of protein daily?

I believe it does help. Having a "cheat meal" on the day before will definitely gives me that extra push for the heavy day.
Maybe it's broscience, but it does help me.

[Womble619]

Defo use straps for SLDL, focusing and struggling on just maintaining your grip during such a delicate excercise is silly IMO, fukin up your back just for increasing grip strength, no thanks jeff.

I use straps and train grip seperately, of course if you can easily maintain your grip and it doesnt take away from your form then not using straps is good.

[Womble619]

I believe it does help. Having a "cheat meal" on the day before will definitely gives me that extra push for the heavy day.
Maybe it's broscience, but it does help me.

yer I reckon it will be the same for me, I will eat maitenance on the saturday and then eat my entire 2400 calories before my 4pm heavy day session on Sunday. Can really see that giving me the extra boost.

[olinolin]

My first advise would be not to skip weeks. The program is structure this way for many reasons. Speeding your progress one week may, eventually, make you lose more than that in the future.

The program is working tho. I really couldn't do 2 sets of 11 reps of all the exercises I did today. I could really only do 10 reps a few weeks ago. I think because I could do 11 today, maybe next week I can do 12 and then after that I can add weight. I'm just really impatient and want to add weight as soon as possible.

Just gonna speed it up for cycle 1. Cycle 2 I'll stick to the 5 weeks probably.