New Trayvon Martin photos released into evidence

[Calhexas]

No, I mean I've never been in a fight with a teenager.

If you'd ever had any altercation with a teenager of any kind, or ever witnessed one, you'd understand why I recognize that there is not a significant difference in the amount of damage a 17yo male and a legal adult can do.

And I certainly wouldn't go out skulking around at night looking for to provoke one.

You can't prove that was George's intention. Hell you can't even prove George knew he was a teenager lol

[Farley1324]

No, I mean I've never been in a fight with a teenager. And I certainly wouldn't go out skulking around at night looking for to provoke one.

Define "skulking around", please.

[mydawgs]

He was both trained and permitted to carry it.

Millions of Americans legally carry 'loaded' handguns. Are you aware?

And that makes you prepared to use a weapon in the heat of a fight....uhhhhhh OK

[Farley1324]

You are really saying using a weapon in a self defence scenario is the same as being at the range?????????

And what if in the struggle the weapon was thrown and misfired into someones window.....OK

Not really concerned about equaility of blame, T paid with his life and Z is about to, innocent or guilty...wow, can't you see how tragic this is

What?

[KRANE]

Since no one saw that, thats a judgement call the jury will have to make as part of their decision, based on everything they have. Thats why TM's school records should be allowed in court, because he has a history of violence involving both peers and adults.

And yet it was Z carrying the weapon and Z that did the killing? Funny how that old excuse works isn't it?

[mydawgs]

He was both trained and permitted to carry it.

Millions of Americans legally carry 'loaded' handguns. Are you aware?

Well I am sure he is pleased as to how it all panned out.

[Farley1324]

And that makes you prepared to use a weapon in the heat of a fight....uhhhhhh OK

What am I missing?

Who was not prepared to use a firearm in self defense that led to his topic of conversation?

[bailey1106]

And yet it was Z carrying the weapon and Z that did the killing? Funny how that old excuse works isn't it?

Carrying a weapon doesnt=violence. Sorry.

[mydawgs]

What?

You are carrying a weapon that you can pull out in a struggle and fire it....if the weapon is mishandled you are sure it won't fire? Really?

[Calhexas]

You are really saying using a weapon in a self defence scenario is the same as being at the range?????????

I'm saying there's a difference between having no training with a firearm, and having very specific training. You said untrained. You didn't specify the type of training.

And what if in the struggle the weapon was thrown and misfired into someones window.....OK

Your point? Again, are you implying that extensive military training should be necessary for a CCW?

Not really concerned about equaility of blame, T paid with his life and Z is about to, innocent or guilty...wow, can't you see how tragic this is

I already recognize that Z is a dead man walking, but the fact is, he should walk. He protected himself accordingly from an individual that was attacking him with the possibility of killing him. Despite the fact that a large multitude of african-americans have made it clear they will kill Z if he walks, he should be allowed to go free.

How "tragic" this is means very little to me. I recognize that a 17yo is dead but forgive me if I don't bust out in tears over someone I don't even know having been a big enough fool to go and get himself killed by trying to act tough. That's not what this is about to me. It's about making sure due process gets it right, even if Z is dead either way.

[mydawgs]

What am I missing?

Who was not prepared to use a firearm in self defense that led to his topic of conversation?

Z was not trained as a cop would have been in using a fire arm in the heat of a fight...agreed? Therefore would it not have been wiser, even though he was armed to let COPS (multiple) handle it? My 80 year old mother can get a permit and license to carry.....how comfortable does that make you feel?

[Calhexas]

And yet it was Z carrying the weapon and Z that did the killing? Funny how that old excuse works isn't it?

Good thing he was carrying that weapon too because if he hadn't, T would've killed Z for simply following him.

[KRANE]

Carrying a weapon doesnt=violence. Sorry.

It did in this case. Trayvon is dead from a bullet through the chest. That's sounds pretty violent to me. Which would say was the most violent?

[lasher]

And I certainly wouldn't go out skulking around at night looking for to provoke one.

would you go skulking out at night looking for your next home to break into?

[Farley1324]

You are carrying a weapon that you can pull out in a struggle and fire it....if the weapon is mishandled you are sure it won't fire? Really?

What?

What are you talking about?

"Misfires", "mishandled"...sure it won't fire...what?

Do you have a point?

[Calhexas]

Z was not trained as a cop would have been in using a fire arm in the heat of a fight...agreed? Therefore would it not have been wiser, even though he was armed to let COPS (multiple) handle it?

Again these decisions are a lot easier in retrospect. Since we're playing what ifs, for all we know Z saved someone's life by preventing T from being able to break into someone's house and do who knows what.

My 80 year old mother can get a permit and license to carry.....how comfortable does that make you feel?

Doesn't bother me seeing as I have no intention on trying to kick her ass.

[KRANE]

Good thing he was carrying that weapon too because if he hadn't, T would've killed Z for simply following him.

If he hadn't been carrying the weapon his true courage would have revealed itself. He likely would have stayed in the car and none of this would have accrued.

Now do you see why there are those against guns? It gives people a enhanced sense of bravado. I'm sure you know what I mean.

[Calhexas]

It did in this case. Trayvon is dead from a bullet through the chest. That's sounds pretty violent to me. Which would say was the most violent?

Shouldn't have attacked someone with a gun then I guess.

[mydawgs]

I'm saying there's a difference between having no training with a firearm, and having very specific training. You said untrained. You didn't specify the type of training.



Your point? Again, are you implying that extensive military training should be necessary for a CCW?



I already recognize that Z is a dead man walking, but the fact is, he should walk. He protected himself accordingly from an individual that was attacking him with the possibility of killing him. Despite the fact that a large multitude of african-americans have made it clear they will kill Z if he walks, he should be allowed to go free.

How "tragic" this is means very little to me. I recognize that a 17yo is dead but forgive me if I don't bust out in tears over someone I don't even know having been a big enough fool to go and get himself killed by trying to act tough. That's not what this is about to me. It's about making sure due process gets it right, even if Z is dead either way.

Well since I cannot count the number if incidents where people carrying weapons get them taken away from them in a struggle and then get shot with their own weapon I thought this might resonate with you...apparently not. Whole thing is tragic.

[Farley1324]

If he hadn't been carrying the weapon his true courage would have revealed itself. He likely would have stayed in the car and none of this would have accrued.

Now do you see why there are those against guns? It gives people a enhanced sense of bravado. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Yeah, people really should be afraid to get out of their car in their own neighborhood for fear of being violently assaulted.

[KRANE]

Shouldn't have attacked someone with a gun then I guess.

Which supports the charge of vigilantism. Just as I thought.

[Calhexas]

If he hadn't been carry the weapon his true courage would have revealed itself. He likely would have stayed in the car and none of this would have accrued.

You're right. Being armed gives people the courage to protect themselves and those around them. Are you implying he's a lesser man because he didn't leave the car to follow Trayvon unarmed?

Now do you see why there are those against guns? It gives people a fighting chance in imminent danger. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I do. I totally do. Why would criminals want law abiding citizens to have a fighting chance right?

[KRANE]

Yeah, people really should be afraid to get out of their car in their own neighborhood for fear of being violently assaulted.

No, chasing what they believe to be criminals. He was not the police!

[mydawgs]

What?

What are you talking about?

"Misfires", "mishandled"...sure it won't fire...what?

Do you have a point?

No no point. We should all toss loaded guns around a fairly safe experiment. Ohhh how about Z holding weapon, T grabs hand they struggle Z fires into a house.....naw that never happens, could never happen...

Nope no point.

[Farley1324]

No, chasing what they believe to be criminals. He was not the police!

Which is why he did not act as the police.

[Calhexas]

Well since I cannot count the number if incidents where people carrying weapons get them taken away from them in a struggle and then get shot with their own weapon I thought this might resonate with you...apparently not. Whole thing is tragic.

Yet this "untrained individual" not only managed to keep possession of his firearm, but successfully use it to stop his attacker.

So what exactly are you so worried about?

[KRANE]

Are you implying he's a lesser man because he didn't leave the car to follow Trayvon unarmed?

I'm implying that the weapon made him stupid. And stupid people do stupid things that hurt others. You do agree that Zimmerman did stupid things, don't you?

I do. I totally do. Why would criminals want law abiding citizens to have a fighting chance right?

Except that there was no crime except in Zimmerman's mind.

[Farley1324]

Nope no point.

Okay, thank you for confirming.

[KRANE]

Which is why he did not act as the police.

On the contrary, he acted exactly like he was the police. And the WEAPON made him do it.

[mydawgs]

Okay, thank you for confirming.

Any time

One can only rationalize with a rational mind.