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Thread: Alistair overeem got licensed
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01-09-2013, 11:14 AM #31
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01-09-2013, 11:37 AM #32
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01-09-2013, 12:27 PM #33
I'm very surprised to hear you say this.
In most non-athletic fields when an employee is disciplined for substance abuse they are more often than not subjected to subsequent tests to ensure their compliance with policy. And these are in fields where a competitive (i.e. employment) advantage generally does not exist. Do you feel that an athletic commission should not utilize the same procedures to ensure compliance that commonly exist for the general population?
When a company is caught breaking tax laws or SEC regulations do you think it would be a witch hunt to pay closer attention to the actions of these companies for at least some period of time following the incidents? What about violation of environmental policy? What are your feelings about supervised probation?
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01-09-2013, 01:41 PM #34
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If it was just the one drug test and he was popped, I wouldn't have as much of an issue of him being tested a couple of more times after (IF they had set the same precedence with other fighters). But in order for Overeem to get his license to fight Brock, he had to agree to the initial test then two (or was it three) other random drug tests after his license actually expired. Has there been any other fighter who has had to agree to something like that? Legitimate question there, but I don't think so....so they came across as if they were trying to catch him for ANYTHING.
To me, they came across as if they were conducting a bit of a witch hunt before now (IMO)...if they would have requested additional hoops for him to jump through at this point, it just would have looked ridiculous to me.
Not asking for anyone to agree with me, just my opinion."Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard"
The more I workout at commercial gyms, the more I hate commercial gyms.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
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01-09-2013, 01:49 PM #35
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01-09-2013, 02:50 PM #36
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01-09-2013, 03:28 PM #37
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01-09-2013, 03:37 PM #38
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01-09-2013, 03:46 PM #39
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01-09-2013, 03:50 PM #40
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01-09-2013, 04:33 PM #41
LOL chose to believe whatever floats your boat I suppose. This guy in prison claims he's innocent, we should probably believe him, ya know.. two sides to every story. Lets throw common sense out the window.
Personally I like Overeem. I like watching him fight. Doesn't mean he's not a very obviously guilty cheat.
Yea.. not like there wasn't a pattern going on. Fleeing once, then twice, then finally taking a test and getting popped .. I'm sure the 2nd time he ran was just for his mommy and not guilt.RIP Anderson Silva - GOAT of MMA.
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01-09-2013, 07:44 PM #42
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01-09-2013, 07:45 PM #43
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01-09-2013, 07:55 PM #44"I would fight anyone of the UFC LW's, but the problem is that I will never put my foot in the octagon after they (UFC) tried to be funny, I would rather have bleeding hemorrhoids than fight for the UFC. I would rather have one true Japanese MMA supporter than one million fake mainstream supporters that will turn their back on you as soon as you lose a fight. - Joachim Hansen
“I would feel like a coward, like I’m running away,” - Mirko Crocop on moving to the 205lb LHW division
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01-09-2013, 08:14 PM #45
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01-09-2013, 08:26 PM #46
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01-09-2013, 08:41 PM #47
Even if he has/is using AAS, so what?
The whole steroids thing doesn't bother me a bit. It's no different than using supplements or weightlifting IMO. You're taking proactive steps to better yourself. Your opponent has his own choices to make in terms of tactics to employ and what to use to further his abilities. The stuff is available for anyone to use, so there's no financial, race, credence, nationality, or age precedent.
Some guys don't like to lift heavy; but you don't accuse Ben Henderson of cheating for doing so when he beats Nate's non-lifting ass, do you? Do you accuse GSP of cheating for employing gymnastics to further his dexterity, flexibility, and strength when he beats on Condit? It's just another potential tool, and it doesn't guarantee you a win, or further your skillset. If anything, increased muscle mass has hindered the 'Reem's cardio.Near, far, wherever you are...
...I believe that the heart does go on.
Once more, you open the door.
And you're here in my heart.
And my heart will go on and on.
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01-09-2013, 08:49 PM #48
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01-09-2013, 08:52 PM #49
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01-09-2013, 08:59 PM #50
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The most annoying thing to me is how naive some peoplev are about steroids in pro sports. A huge majority if pro fighters are on steroids. But people only care about overeem, no one else takes as much **** as him. Not even close. "reem is a cheater" well hes fighting a guy on roids too so its all fair.
you wanna know how i did it, this is how, i never saved anything for the swim back.
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01-09-2013, 09:22 PM #51
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01-09-2013, 10:02 PM #52
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01-09-2013, 10:39 PM #53"I would fight anyone of the UFC LW's, but the problem is that I will never put my foot in the octagon after they (UFC) tried to be funny, I would rather have bleeding hemorrhoids than fight for the UFC. I would rather have one true Japanese MMA supporter than one million fake mainstream supporters that will turn their back on you as soon as you lose a fight. - Joachim Hansen
“I would feel like a coward, like I’m running away,” - Mirko Crocop on moving to the 205lb LHW division
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01-09-2013, 11:59 PM #54
that's something a weak argument, considering almost nothing guarantees a win.
imo, the issue really boils down to whether or not aas usage gives someone an unfair advantage. I'm not sure there's a decisive argument on that point. you point out that access isn't a major hurdle for anybody, so it boils down to whether guys elect to use them or not, which does make it somewhat analogous to whether or not guys elect to weight-train, train certain techniques, or do gymnastics. on the other hand, that's all technique/actual training stuff (yes you have to actually train extremely harder, if not harder, to maximize the boost drugs give you), though not all supplements are created equal. it does seem like people want to draw the line at things that are athletes training/working to improve their skillset and abilities vs. using products that further enhance their ability to push beyond their natural/genetic limits so that certain things/attributes become more improvable through training. But I'm not sure if there's really a great argument to defend that distinction being so important--as the most intuitive one seems to prioritizing the value working hard or whatever over chemical enhancement--but, of course, someone's natural aptitudes is much more a matter of luck than merit.
(as a sidebar: I'm not sure steroids have really hindered Overeem's cardio very much, since he never had that great a gas-tank at LHW either. There's almost certainly some trade-off, but once someone hits a high level that's bound to happen.Last edited by RoccoTanno123; 01-10-2013 at 12:07 AM.
Deathstroke and I list our most hilariously awful WCW moments (lots of gifs & vids; expect load time):
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=168458963
"You can't beat mah prices, but you can beat mah meat." - Dusty Rhodes
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01-10-2013, 12:11 AM #55
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01-10-2013, 04:04 AM #56
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01-10-2013, 04:38 AM #57
Correct me if I'm wrong but the reason for those stipulations was because he left the country when he was supposed to do his test (he said because his mother was ill which is fine with me) and then tried to submit a sample done by his own doctor in europe which could not be accepted. They were like "ok thats a bit fishy" so in order to let him fight they made his testing a little more strict.
If I remember that correctly then I dont see anything wrong with the testing they put him through and he was lucky he got licensed to fight brock at all. Some other fighters may have been denied.
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01-10-2013, 04:46 AM #58
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01-10-2013, 04:56 AM #59
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You're trying to pull an argument out of me that just isn't there, man.
I didn't say I believed Overeem 100% nor did I say I say I bought the AC's story 100%. Common sense would say that there is probably a story somewhere in between the two where the truth resides.
Just like your guy in prison claiming he's innocent, how many gov officials are running around free who are bigger criminals?
Again, two sides.
Some of the biggest knives I've had stuck in my back were from some of the nicest people I've met....call me jaded.
Interesting.Last edited by cgc; 01-10-2013 at 05:04 AM.
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard"
The more I workout at commercial gyms, the more I hate commercial gyms.
Psalms 144:1
Praise be to the Lord my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.
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01-10-2013, 06:00 AM #60
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