Oh God, not another "I can't gain weight" diet thread! Seeking advice...

[DocHoss]

I know there have been several diet threads lately, but I hope the forum will have the patience for one more.

I'll give the Cliffs first:

A. per Ironwill's recommendation, calculated my BMR using Katch-McArdle and Mifflin-St Jeor methods.
B. Added 20% to the highest BMR calculation to gain weight: 2850 cal, 200 g P, 285 C, 100 F.
C. Tracking my macros and calories since mid-May, and have averaged 3130 cal/day since then.
D. Training hard, but body weight still doesn't go up.
E. Looking for advice on how to revamp my diet.


Here's the detailed version:

A.
I used the Katch-McArdle and Mifflin-St Jeor methods to calculate my BMR. My only BF measurment was from a year ago, when I weighed 163 and tested at 19%. That gives a LBM of 132 lbs. When I made the calculations, I was at 160 lbs and guessed 15% (perhaps optimistically), for 136 lbs LBM. Katch-McArdle gave me 1700 cal/day, not including activity. I used the "moderate" activity multiplier of 1.4 - I work out hard in the gym, but outside I'm generally so sedentary that I have trouble activating the motion-sensor towel machine. That gave me 2375 cal for maintenance.

B.
Adding 20% to that results in 2850 cal/day for weight gain. Recommended protein of 1-1.5 g/lb LBM gives 135-202.5 g, so I aimed high and took 200 g (800 cal). Recommended fat of 1-2/kg bodyweight gives 73-146 g, so I split the difference and took 100 g (900 cal). Recommended carbohydrate fills in the rest (2850-800-900=1150 cal) of the calories, which comes out to 287.5 g.

So my target for weight gain was 200 g protein, 287.5 g carbs, and 100 g fat for 2850 cal/day

C.
Tracking my macros while working in Puerto Rico this spring was not doable, but 2 weeks after I got back I began to track my diet seriously. I weigh my portions, track calories and grams of macros every day. I must add that I've been on travel in Europe for just under 4 weeks since mid-June, and wasn't able to track during travel (which is why my sample sizes are just 15-17), but I've tried very hard to eat loads while away from home.

Here is my monthly summary:
May (n=15) 251 P 303 C 98 F 3098 cal
June (n=17) 261 P 293 C 99 F 3096 cal
July (n=16) 243 P 312 C 104 F 3171 cal
August (n=9) 265 P 327 C 98 F 3247 cal



D.
I'm working out hard - at least I think so. I work out 4-5 days a week, and focus on the compounds every time as heavy as I can go - squat (hips below knees), deadlift, clean & jerk, BB row, and bench (mostly decline and incline as flat is bothering my shoulder). Not all on the same day of course, and I do other exercises too. I don't do any cardio other than warm-up (formerly 13 minutes stationary bike, now 10 minutes rowing) on the days I do squats and deadlifts. On back and chest days my warm-up consists of shoulder rehab exercises.

I weigh myself after every workout (I started that way last year, and have continued for the sake of consistancy) and track my weight as a 5-day running mean (mean of the 5 most recent measurements). On May 17 when I began tracking my intake, my 5-day mean weight was 168 lbs; today it was 168.3 lbs.
O-kayyyyyy.

E.
Obviously, what I am doing to bulk isn't working!

I see four likely causes: lousy genetics, over-training, under-training, and/or under-eating.

Genetics seems to be taboo here, but I am convinced that, like every human trait, the ability to gain muscle is subject to genetic variability. It would mind-boggling if it wasn't. Just as some people are blessed with the ability to pack on muscle even with poor diet and mediocre exercise, some are cursed by the opposite, while most are in the middle. Though it's my experience that those who have the genetics to build muscle generally have little tolerance for those who don't. Whether or not one has had other problems - heart valve replacement or other physical difficulties - is irrelevant. That's comparing apples with oranges. Or maybe avocados.

But whatever my genetic ability is, there is nothing I can do about it, so I want to focus on what I can change.

Over-training is certainly possible. I push my self really hard in the gym (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it) and maybe I'm just doing too much. I'm trying to scale back on my volume, but doing fewer reps on my warm-up sets doesn't seem to be helping my squats or deadlifts; if anything it seems to hurt. But if I'm over-training, a break ought to give my body a chance to recover and I should come back stronger, right? But when I have been out of the gym for 10-12 days, I lose a lot of strength. I lost about a month of progress in my deadlifts during my last 2-week trip to Germany - I'm still only at early July levels. So I don't think it's over-training, or at least not obviously so.

Maybe it's under-training. I push myself hard and I try to be progressive and either lift more weight or more reps each time. But I just seem stalled out and my big lifts are not getting any bigger (except C & J). In any case, I just don't think that not working hard enough is the problem. If so, I would also expect that I'd be putting on fat, but I'm not. If anything, I'm losing fat. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm working out perfectly, but I really don't think that my workouts are so bad to give me the results I'm getting.

That leaves diet! The obvious answer is that no matter what my calculations say, if I'm not gaining, I need to eat more. Perhaps lifting has significantly increased my metabolism. I certainly eat sh*t-loads (literally!) more than I ever did before, and I was up to 180 lbs of chubby before working out. On the plus side, cutting will be a piece o' cake (sorry about that if cake isn't in your macros!) if I ever gain enough muscle to make cutting worthwhile. Right now I feel if I were to cut I'd just look like a concentration camp survivor.

My typical diet consists of:
1) 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 cup Joe's O's, 1/2 scoop whey, 2 Tbs ground flax, 3/4 cup milk. Occasionally eggs instead.
2) brown rice & barley (I cook 1 cup brown rice with 1/2 cup barley and eat half each day with my meat meals)
3) 5 oz chicken in 1 tsp olive oil pre workout
4) creatine & 3/4 cup grape juice, 1-2 scoops whey & 1 cup milk post workout
5) 8 oz ahi steak in 1 tsp coconut oil, 5 oz broccoli
6) 7 oz chicken in 1 tsp olive oil, with peach, kumquat, etc.
7) snacks: 1 oz nuts, 1 oz cheese, banana or other fruit
8) sweet potato, veggies, & some kind of animal flesh
9) evening shake: 1 cup cottage cheese, 1 cup milk, 1-2 tsp flax oil, 1/2 scoop whey, and fruit

Any suggestions on what I should change? I think EB68 said I should be eating 4000 calories a day. So did a (skinny) guy at the gym. I already feel like a French goose some days!

More protein? Right now I'm getting 250 g protein a day, and I'm nervous about consuming too much. Besides, most guys here seem to build plenty of muscle with a lot less than that. More beef, less fish?

More fat? Do I eat too cleanly? Most of my fat is plant-based - olive, flax, and coconut oil, walnuts, and almonds. My only signifcant animal fat is when I eat beef or pork as the fish and chicken are relativley fat-free. I have trouble making 100 g fat most days. I often eat cheese to get in the fat (plus I like it; I'm eating an ounce of Wensleydale even as we speak) - sometimes even potato chips out of desperation (Trader Joe's salt & pepper ridge cut chips are really good). Since I started lifting I just don't have much desire for sweets. A spoon of ice-cream satisfies me.

More carbs? More brown rice, barley, & sweet potatoes or something else?

To help judge where I am at and what I ought to do, here is a picture of me from today. I figure BF is probably 15-20%. Other people with 15% look a lot leaner than me, while it's been said here that over 20% is obese, which I'm not. Most of my fat likes to sit around my lower back and love handles.

Thank you for reading my plea!

[acrawlingchaos]

Any known medical conditions? Any history of anxiety or depression? Any personal issues?

One common trait with "hard gainers" is that they tend to have a much higher NEAT and overall TDEE then you would expect. Some emotional states can increase metabolic rate by as much as 60%. If so... trying to resolve these issues can make a drastic difference in your ability to maintain and gain mass.

You may have underestimated your TDEE and are more active than you think.

In the meantime, your protein intake is fine, and fat intake is fine and forget about "eating clean". If you are having a difficult time getting your calories in, use calorie dense "dirty foods" to help along. You have a lot of quality food in your diet with great macros... adding pastry, baked goods, pasta (etc) is an easy way to add an extra 500-100 calories.

As long as your rate of gain is relatively slow, you won't have to worry about any fat gain. At this point, I would add an extra 100-150 calories every 2 weeks until you see the scale move up.

[db_ggmm]

Are you getting stronger at your compound barbell lifts? The answer to this will change the texture of your post as a whole.

[JOHN GARGANI]

HOSS: you have a really nice, well balanced physique:




it is WAY too early in the game to label you as a "hard gainer".....honestly, you look so good, I think you should just continue in the same vein and let time take you there....

keep in mind, also, that although you CAN make gains at your age, as you approach 50 and above, it does get a little harder.....


you could try SLIGHTLY bumping up the total cals.....but very slightly.....no need to ruin what you already have now.....

as well as step up the intensity of the workouts a bit....notice: I said INTENSITY, not necessarily, the amount of TIME....

[ChickenPauk]

I wish I could give you a little of what I have and trade for what you have. I can't eat anywhere near 3000 calories with any regularity or I'd put on serious weight. I'm trying to lean out a bit more and have come up against a plateau of sorts. So, I feel your pain. I guess the only advice I can give is what i'm currently doing until I either get some help or stumble across something that works.....don't give up, enjoy the activity and keep experimenting to see if something works for you. you don't look bad at all, keep upping your lifts!!!

[ironwill2008]

The obvious answer is that no matter what my calculations say, if I'm not gaining, I need to eat more.

You've answered your own question.


Any of the calorie/macro calculators can only provide an estimate of where to start. It's then up to the trainee to weigh/track/evaluate, and then make changes if the desired results aren't being realized after a reasonable period of time of following the baseline plan to the letter.





If you're not gaining weight, you're simply not eating enough.

Do I eat too cleanly?

Without trying to open the "clean vs dirty food" debate for the 100,000,000th time, if you're finding it difficult to take in enough calories to see weight gain, loosen it up some. Eat a few slices of greasy pizza each day, a cheeseburger, or a bowl of (gasp!) ice cream. Just be sure to track the calories so that you know your total daily intake.

Look for a bump of an additional 300-500 calories per day. You're already getting adequate protein, so as long as you feel like you're getting adequate fruit/veg already (to provide micros), eat those extra calories from any source you like.

Stick with the addition religiously for another 3-4 weeks, and then see where you're at.

[bodyhard]

I know there have been several diet threads lately, but I hope the forum will have the patience for one more.

I'll give the Cliffs first:

A. per Ironwill's recommendation, calculated my BMR using Katch-McArdle and Mifflin-St Jeor methods.
B. Added 20% to the highest BMR calculation to gain weight: 2850 cal, 200 g P, 285 C, 100 F.
C. Tracking my macros and calories since mid-May, and have averaged 3130 cal/day since then.
D. Training hard, but body weight still doesn't go up.
E. Looking for advice on how to revamp my diet.


Here's the detailed version:

A.
I used the Katch-McArdle and Mifflin-St Jeor methods to calculate my BMR. My only BF measurment was from a year ago, when I weighed 163 and tested at 19%. That gives a LBM of 132 lbs. When I made the calculations, I was at 160 lbs and guessed 15% (perhaps optimistically), for 136 lbs LBM. Katch-McArdle gave me 1700 cal/day, not including activity. I used the "moderate" activity multiplier of 1.4 - I work out hard in the gym, but outside I'm generally so sedentary that I have trouble activating the motion-sensor towel machine. That gave me 2375 cal for maintenance.

B.
Adding 20% to that results in 2850 cal/day for weight gain. Recommended protein of 1-1.5 g/lb LBM gives 135-202.5 g, so I aimed high and took 200 g (800 cal). Recommended fat of 1-2/kg bodyweight gives 73-146 g, so I split the difference and took 100 g (900 cal). Recommended carbohydrate fills in the rest (2850-800-900=1150 cal) of the calories, which comes out to 287.5 g.

So my target for weight gain was 200 g protein, 287.5 g carbs, and 100 g fat for 2850 cal/day

C.
Tracking my macros while working in Puerto Rico this spring was not doable, but 2 weeks after I got back I began to track my diet seriously. I weigh my portions, track calories and grams of macros every day. I must add that I've been on travel in Europe for just under 4 weeks since mid-June, and wasn't able to track during travel (which is why my sample sizes are just 15-17), but I've tried very hard to eat loads while away from home.

Here is my monthly summary:
May (n=15) 251 P 303 C 98 F 3098 cal
June (n=17) 261 P 293 C 99 F 3096 cal
July (n=16) 243 P 312 C 104 F 3171 cal
August (n=9) 265 P 327 C 98 F 3247 cal



D.
I'm working out hard - at least I think so. I work out 4-5 days a week, and focus on the compounds every time as heavy as I can go - squat (hips below knees), deadlift, clean & jerk, BB row, and bench (mostly decline and incline as flat is bothering my shoulder). Not all on the same day of course, and I do other exercises too. I don't do any cardio other than warm-up (formerly 13 minutes stationary bike, now 10 minutes rowing) on the days I do squats and deadlifts. On back and chest days my warm-up consists of shoulder rehab exercises.

I weigh myself after every workout (I started that way last year, and have continued for the sake of consistancy) and track my weight as a 5-day running mean (mean of the 5 most recent measurements). On May 17 when I began tracking my intake, my 5-day mean weight was 168 lbs; today it was 168.3 lbs.
O-kayyyyyy.

E.
Obviously, what I am doing to bulk isn't working!

I see four likely causes: lousy genetics, over-training, under-training, and/or under-eating.

Genetics seems to be taboo here, but I am convinced that, like every human trait, the ability to gain muscle is subject to genetic variability. It would mind-boggling if it wasn't. Just as some people are blessed with the ability to pack on muscle even with poor diet and mediocre exercise, some are cursed by the opposite, while most are in the middle. Though it's my experience that those who have the genetics to build muscle generally have little tolerance for those who don't. Whether or not one has had other problems - heart valve replacement or other physical difficulties - is irrelevant. That's comparing apples with oranges. Or maybe avocados.

But whatever my genetic ability is, there is nothing I can do about it, so I want to focus on what I can change.

Over-training is certainly possible. I push my self really hard in the gym (that's my story, and I'm sticking to it) and maybe I'm just doing too much. I'm trying to scale back on my volume, but doing fewer reps on my warm-up sets doesn't seem to be helping my squats or deadlifts; if anything it seems to hurt. But if I'm over-training, a break ought to give my body a chance to recover and I should come back stronger, right? But when I have been out of the gym for 10-12 days, I lose a lot of strength. I lost about a month of progress in my deadlifts during my last 2-week trip to Germany - I'm still only at early July levels. So I don't think it's over-training, or at least not obviously so.

Maybe it's under-training. I push myself hard and I try to be progressive and either lift more weight or more reps each time. But I just seem stalled out and my big lifts are not getting any bigger (except C & J). In any case, I just don't think that not working hard enough is the problem. If so, I would also expect that I'd be putting on fat, but I'm not. If anything, I'm losing fat. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm working out perfectly, but I really don't think that my workouts are so bad to give me the results I'm getting.

That leaves diet! The obvious answer is that no matter what my calculations say, if I'm not gaining, I need to eat more. Perhaps lifting has significantly increased my metabolism. I certainly eat sh*t-loads (literally!) more than I ever did before, and I was up to 180 lbs of chubby before working out. On the plus side, cutting will be a piece o' cake (sorry about that if cake isn't in your macros!) if I ever gain enough muscle to make cutting worthwhile. Right now I feel if I were to cut I'd just look like a concentration camp survivor.

My typical diet consists of:
1) 1/2 cup oats, 1/2 cup Joe's O's, 1/2 scoop whey, 2 Tbs ground flax, 3/4 cup milk. Occasionally eggs instead.
2) brown rice & barley (I cook 1 cup brown rice with 1/2 cup barley and eat half each day with my meat meals)
3) 5 oz chicken in 1 tsp olive oil pre workout
4) creatine & 3/4 cup grape juice, 1-2 scoops whey & 1 cup milk post workout
5) 8 oz ahi steak in 1 tsp coconut oil, 5 oz broccoli
6) 7 oz chicken in 1 tsp olive oil, with peach, kumquat, etc.
7) snacks: 1 oz nuts, 1 oz cheese, banana or other fruit
8) sweet potato, veggies, & some kind of animal flesh
9) evening shake: 1 cup cottage cheese, 1 cup milk, 1-2 tsp flax oil, 1/2 scoop whey, and fruit

Any suggestions on what I should change? I think EB68 said I should be eating 4000 calories a day. So did a (skinny) guy at the gym. I already feel like a French goose some days!

More protein? Right now I'm getting 250 g protein a day, and I'm nervous about consuming too much. Besides, most guys here seem to build plenty of muscle with a lot less than that. More beef, less fish?

More fat? Do I eat too cleanly? Most of my fat is plant-based - olive, flax, and coconut oil, walnuts, and almonds. My only signifcant animal fat is when I eat beef or pork as the fish and chicken are relativley fat-free. I have trouble making 100 g fat most days. I often eat cheese to get in the fat (plus I like it; I'm eating an ounce of Wensleydale even as we speak) - sometimes even potato chips out of desperation (Trader Joe's salt & pepper ridge cut chips are really good). Since I started lifting I just don't have much desire for sweets. A spoon of ice-cream satisfies me.

More carbs? More brown rice, barley, & sweet potatoes or something else?

To help judge where I am at and what I ought to do, here is a picture of me from today. I figure BF is probably 15-20%. Other people with 15% look a lot leaner than me, while it's been said here that over 20% is obese, which I'm not. Most of my fat likes to sit around my lower back and love handles.

Thank you for reading my plea!

Check your PM.

I don't want to hurt any feelings around here

[acrawlingchaos]

I don't want to hurt any feelings around here

What have you done with the real BH?

[bodyhard]

What have you done with the real BH?

LOL, just tired of making enemies man. Besides I wasn't referring to hurting DocHoss feelings lol, I just sent him a PM on what I think he needs to do to gain, forget about all this Bu!!sh!t that some on here swear by yet bodybuilders have proven those theories wrong time and time again.

Not here to debate just telling you what I sent to Doc, he can do with it as he pleases.

[acrawlingchaos]

LOL, just tired of making enemies man. Besides I wasn't referring to hurting DocHoss feelings lol, I just sent him a PM on what I think he needs to do to gain, forget about all this Bu!!sh!t that some on here swear by yet bodybuilders have proven those theories wrong time and time again.

Not here to debate just telling you what I sent to Doc, he can do with it as he pleases.

That's fine, I am actually interested in how you manage your diet. I know there are two schools of thought...

Those that count.
Those that are intuitive.

I am personally a numbers kind of guy, so I find the numbers easy to follow i.e. counting calories. You on the other hand (like IronCharles) are both intuitive, both in the way you train and the way you diet.

I don't think counting calories is necessary, but I do believe that if your wheels are spinning, it could be a useful tool for some. Don't worry about russling my jimmies, because I know you don't like counting, but I am interested in hearing about your more intuitive approach.

[bodyhard]

That's fine, I am actually interested in how you manage your diet. I know there are two schools of thought...

Those that count.
Those that are intuitive.

I am personally a numbers kind of guy, so I find the numbers easy to follow i.e. counting calories. You on the other hand (like IronCharles) are both intuitive, both in the way you train and the way you diet.

I don't think counting calories is necessary, but I do believe that if your wheels are spinning, it could be a useful tool for some. Don't worry about russling my jimmies, because I know you don't like counting, but I am interested in hearing about your more intuitive approach.

No I count my calories I keep track of what I eat on fitday. I just don't buy into you can eat however you want as long as you meet your daily requirement reasoning, everyone is different. I just told Doc, what I think would work for him. If what he is doing isn't working it doesn't hurt to try something else no?

[nvrstopworking]

Peanut Butter & Nutella sandwiches are a great calorie bumper.

Couple of tbsps of each on some bread (or a bagel) and you can be looking at 500 cals+ for just one!

[ChickenPauk]

Peanut Butter & Nutella sandwiches are a great calorie bumper.

Couple of tbsps of each on some bread (or a bagel) and you can be looking at 500 cals+ for just one!

My kids love nutella -- I absolutely dread having it in the house. It's like a drug, hard to walk past it without dipping the spoon in the jar.

[acrawlingchaos]

No I count my calories I keep track of what I eat on fitday. I just don't buy into you can eat however you want as long as you meet your daily requirement reasoning, everyone is different. I just told Doc, what I think would work for him. If what he is doing isn't working it doesn't hurt to try something else no?

Well... I think when you hear people say "you can eat what ever you want" they mean as far as macro content. I don't think eating whatever you want is the best way to go either. The majority of your food should be nutritionally valuable.

The truth is you can never truly eat "whatever" because meeting your protein requirement will usually limit the "junk" you consume.

If what you have been doing doesn't work... I would agree that a change is needed.





FWIW, I am currently on the start of my first long bulk. I guess I will see how this works out for me.

[bodyhard]

Well... I think when you hear people say "you can eat what ever you want" they mean as far as macro content. I don't think eating whatever you want is the best way to go either. The majority of your food should be nutritionally valuable.

The truth is you can never truly eat "whatever" because meeting your protein requirement will usually limit the "junk" you consume.

If what you have been doing doesn't work... I would agree that a change is needed.





FWIW, I am currently on the start of my first long bulk. I guess I will see how this works out for me.

That is exactly what I am talking about, the "macro content" hype, I don't buy into it at all.

Again I am not here to discuss whether it works or not, if people want to believe in it and they are getting the results they want, that is all well and good. But if it is NOT working for you then there are other things you can do and that is what I PM'ed Doc about.

[induced_drag]

You've answered your own question.


Any of the calorie/macro calculators can only provide an estimate of where to start. It's then up to the trainee to weigh/track/evaluate, and then make changes if the desired results aren't being realized after a reasonable period of time of following the baseline plan to the letter.





If you're not gaining weight, you're simply not eating enough.










Without trying to open the "clean vs dirty food" debate for the 100,000,000th time, if you're finding it difficult to take in enough calories to see weight gain, loosen it up some. Eat a few slices of greasy pizza each day, a cheeseburger, or a bowl of (gasp!) ice cream. Just be sure to track the calories so that you know your total daily intake.

Look for a bump of an additional 300-500 calories per day. You're already getting adequate protein, so as long as you feel like you're getting adequate fruit/veg already (to provide micros), eat those extra calories from any source you like.

Stick with the addition religiously for another 3-4 weeks, and then see where you're at.

Have to say I am 100% with IW on this one. He opened my eyes to it when I was resistant to the idea....and now I feel like I have a good handle on it. My progress would not be nearly what it is without it.

As IW said....bump up another 300-500 and keep tracking.

I have a neighbor that works out that swears he cant gain weight..... I told him, drink a cup of olive oil a day....and tell me you dont gain weight. (yes being extreme)....but to prove a simple point. Weight gain....is all about energy balance....you have to tip the scales.

Your body will not (at least efficiently), gain muscle on maintenance cals. (except in the newb phase.) Take it from me.....recomping is the quickest way nowhere. A slight planned surplus, with proper macros is the most productive path forward.

So many guys on here want to complain....and dispute....but have never done it. Yes....it is that simple...

[bigtallox]

Peanut Butter & Nutella sandwiches are a great calorie bumper.

Couple of tbsps of each on some bread (or a bagel) and you can be looking at 500 cals+ for just one!

NO, not nutella.

There are the listed ingrediants ( you know they list them in order from highest to lowest, right ? )....


INGREDIENTS: SUGAR, PALM OIL, HAZELNUTS, COCOA, SKIM MILK, REDUCED MINERALS WHEY (MILK), LECITHIN AS EMULSIFIER (SOY), VANILLIN: AN ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR.

Here's a quote from the nutella wikipedia page...

About half of the calories in Nutella come from fat and about 40% of the calories come from sugar.

IMHO, there are much better way to get 500 calories.

[tobymax123]

Doc, I continue to be impressed by your progress. You look great in your new pic.

[DocHoss]

First off, a big THANK YOU! to everyone who plowed through my post and gave me advice! I really appreciate your time and insight.

Any known medical conditions? Any history of anxiety or depression? Any personal issues?

Hmm, interesting. I don't know of any medical conditions that should affect me; had full blood work done in May (cholesterol went down 40 points in the year since I began working out ). No depression, except maybe from wondering why I ain't big! Anxiety, well..... I think I've always been on the anxious side, and I sure notice more and more anxiety about traveling than when I was younger. And work stress - I survive on soft money.

One common trait with "hard gainers" is that they tend to have a much higher NEAT and overall TDEE then you would expect. Some emotional states can increase metabolic rate by as much as 60%. If so... trying to resolve these issues can make a drastic difference in your ability to maintain and gain mass.

You may have underestimated your TDEE and are more active than you think.

Thanks - that's intriguing.

In the meantime, your protein intake is fine, and fat intake is fine and forget about "eating clean". If you are having a difficult time getting your calories in, use calorie dense "dirty foods" to help along. You have a lot of quality food in your diet with great macros... adding pastry, baked goods, pasta (etc) is an easy way to add an extra 500-100 calories.

I have to say I have a hard time eating junk calories other than chocolate and potato chips. I'll do baked goods in Germany, but here I just don't think they're worth the effort to eat. But I can bake my own.

I have to say, your 168 lbs look way better than my 168 lbs! Gives me something to aim for.

Are you getting stronger at your compound barbell lifts? The answer to this will change the texture of your post as a whole.

I think so, but travel really sets me back. My squats are coming up after a decline when I learned how to go down far enough. The difference between what i can lift "pretty low" and "almost parallel" vs. "hips below knees" have been quite dramatic for me. Deadlifts were going steadily up, albeit slowly, though my last trip set me back a full month. But progress on everything has been slow.

HOSS: you have a really nice, well balanced physique:

it is WAY too early in the game to label you as a "hard gainer".....honestly, you look so good, I think you should just continue in the same vein and let time take you there....

keep in mind, also, that although you CAN make gains at your age, as you approach 50 and above, it does get a little harder.....

you could try SLIGHTLY bumping up the total cals.....but very slightly.....no need to ruin what you already have now.....

as well as step up the intensity of the workouts a bit....notice: I said INTENSITY, not necessarily, the amount of TIME....

Thank you for the kind words - coming from you they mean a lot. I know I look way better than I did a year ago, but it's hard for me to see much change in the past few months. I think need to try to work more on intensity. When I started on machines, I would go back & forth between exercises and not have more than a 30 sec break. Now I find I spend more time resting between sets, especially with squats, deads, and cleans.

I wish I could give you a little of what I have and trade for what you have. I can't eat anywhere near 3000 calories with any regularity or I'd put on serious weight. I'm trying to lean out a bit more and have come up against a plateau of sorts. So, I feel your pain. I guess the only advice I can give is what i'm currently doing until I either get some help or stumble across something that works.....don't give up, enjoy the activity and keep experimenting to see if something works for you. you don't look bad at all, keep upping your lifts!!!

Thank you! We are all different, that's for sure.

You've answered your own question.

They don't call me Doc for nothin'!

Any of the calorie/macro calculators can only provide an estimate of where to start. It's then up to the trainee to weigh/track/evaluate, and then make changes if the desired results aren't being realized after a reasonable period of time of following the baseline plan to the letter.

Without trying to open the "clean vs dirty food" debate for the 100,000,000th time, if you're finding it difficult to take in enough calories to see weight gain, loosen it up some. Eat a few slices of greasy pizza each day, a cheeseburger, or a bowl of (gasp!) ice cream. Just be sure to track the calories so that you know your total daily intake.

Look for a bump of an additional 300-500 calories per day. You're already getting adequate protein, so as long as you feel like you're getting adequate fruit/veg already (to provide micros), eat those extra calories from any source you like.

Stick with the addition religiously for another 3-4 weeks, and then see where you're at.

Thank you! I will try to loosen up and live a little. I have pizza twice a year - next one up is Sept. 28! But maybe some nice Southern barbecue is beckoning me...

Check your PM.

Thank you very much for your advice, which I didn't think should be controversial - PM'd you back.

Peanut Butter & Nutella sandwiches are a great calorie bumper.

Couple of tbsps of each on some bread (or a bagel) and you can be looking at 500 cals+ for just one!

After reading Nutella's ingredients, I don't think I could. But my nephew in Germany has it for breakfast every day. Peanut butter is OK (I had PB&J nearly every day for lunch in high school), but I mostly go for almond, cashew, or macadamia butter. Mmmmm.

NO, not nutella.

There are the listed ingrediants ( you know they list them in order from highest to lowest, right ? )....

INGREDIENTS: SUGAR, PALM OIL, HAZELNUTS, COCOA, SKIM MILK, REDUCED MINERALS WHEY (MILK), LECITHIN AS EMULSIFIER (SOY), VANILLIN: AN ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR.

IMHO, there are much better way to get 500 calories.

See what I mean! I'd rather have pizza. Or potato chips. Or actual chocolate with hazelnuts.

Doc, I continue to be impressed by your progress. You look great in your new pic.

Thank you- that's very kind! I was leery about posting my picture because I thought I looked fat and weak (I look so much better in the mirror!), but felt it was necessary for the thread.

[acrawlingchaos]

I think I've always been on the anxious side, and I sure notice more and more anxiety about traveling than when I was younger. And work stress - I survive on soft money.

I suspect you just have a naturally high NEAT/TDEE. I have counted before, and at one point I was losing weight at 3000 calories and over time, I have eliminated many stressors and can maintain around 2500.

Here is the study. It's a bit long and dry, but contains a lot of great info.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/00...E/M2845E00.HTM

I have to say I have a hard time eating junk calories other than chocolate and potato chips. I'll do baked goods in Germany, but here I just don't think they're worth the effort to eat. But I can bake my own.

I personally bump my cals with heartier cuts of beef. Ground Sirloin (85%) and fattier steaks are great ways to bump up the calories with fat (which I have noticed your fat intake is relatively low in comparison to your total intake).

I have to say, your 168 lbs look way better than my 168 lbs! Gives me something to aim for.

Thanks. Two years ago, I was a skinny fat mess @ 155 pounds. A year ago I started lifting serious. There is a strong learning curve, and personal experience is where the epiphany happens.

[DocHoss]

I suspect you just have a naturally high NEAT/TDEE. I have counted before, and at one point I was losing weight at 3000 calories and over time, I have eliminated many stressors and can maintain around 2500.

Here is the study. It's a bit long and dry, but contains a lot of great info.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/MEETING/00...E/M2845E00.HTM

Thank you - it will take me a while to read through all that, but I'll try.

I personally bump my cals with heartier cuts of beef. Ground Sirloin (85%) and fattier steaks are great ways to bump up the calories with fat (which I have noticed your fat intake is relatively low in comparison to your total intake).

I'd rather eat a steak than cake! SInce I began working out, I crave protein far more than sweets. I suspect that one reason I was gaining (albeit slowly) in Puerto Rico was because I was consuming more animal fat, especially eating out for lunch. Chicken breast and tuna steaks are so easy to make, which is why my fat has been relatively low, plus we hardly ever eat out.

Thanks. Two years ago, I was a skinny fat mess @ 155 pounds. A year ago I started lifting serious. There is a strong learning curve, and personal experience is where the epiphany happens.

You've done a great job for just a year! I'm looking forward to seeing how your bulk goes.

[crupiea]

I agree with the above.

eat a bit more or workout less.

more workouts dont always mean more muscle. recovery is under rated.

Its also when you actually build muscle.

This isnt rocket science so no need to overthink it.